same-sex sponsorship advice needed!

[rjessome]

I'm just going to repeat what I said above. If the CURRENT relationship is genuine, very unlikely to be refused. Sorry, I know that's not what most people on here want to hear.

Committing fraud anywhere, anytime is wrong. However, that being said, CIC will only assess what is material to the PR application which is the relationship between the sponsor and the applicant. In this case, the applicant did NOT commit fraud to gain entry into Canada. That's what CIC cares about. If the relationship is genuine and it's proven, then the application will be approved. If there is anything to explain, it is the switch from one gender to another in partners and that's been done loads of times. There are no questions that ask about the breakdown of the previous relationship. It's all about the development of the one being assessed. It would get more scrutiny if the SPONSOR had previously sponsored a person or was sponsored themselves to come to Canada by a member of the opposite sex and then turned around, got divorced, and re-married and sponsored a person of the same sex (or any other person for that matter).

And to be clear, I'm not supporting what was done. I'm just stating how CIC will assess the application in reality.

 

[tuyen]

In this case, the applicant did NOT commit fraud to gain entry into Canada.

Two things:

1) You can't possibly make that determination without knowing the inner workings of his mind. For all you know, he's going to do the same thing to his "boyfriend" that he did with his "wife". Ergo, fraud.
2) The applicant in this case did not YET commit fraud because no paperwork has been filed YET.

There are no questions that ask about the breakdown of the previous relationship.

They don't even need to bother asking any questions about the previous relationship. All they have to do is look at the facts:

- male from asian country goes to the U.S., marries a woman, gets a green card
- before said green card expires, he divorces the woman and marries a Canadian man
- the application will have to show how long both men knew each other, at which point it will be beyond obvious to CIC that his "marriage" was a sham, and that he was only using her for the green card, because he was carrying on a relationship with his gay Canadian sponsor WHILE being "married" to his straight American wife
- if he was willing to scam his way into the U.S., he will be equally willing to scam his way into Canada

Those are the facts, and they can all be determined without so much as one question being asked about the previous relationship. And when that application is processed and those facts are visible, there will be a better chance of finding water on the sun than for that application to be approved.

 

[rjessome]

Two things:

1) You can't possibly make that determination without knowing the inner workings of his mind. For all you know, he's going to do the same thing to his "boyfriend" that he did with his "wife". Ergo, fraud.
2) The applicant in this case did not YET commit fraud because no paperwork has been filed YET.


They don't even need to bother asking any questions about the previous relationship. All they have to do is look at the facts:

- male from asian country goes to the U.S., marries a woman, gets a green card
- before said green card expires, he divorces the woman and marries a Canadian man
- the application will have to show how long both men knew each other, at which point it will be beyond obvious to CIC that his "marriage" was a sham, and that he was only using her for the green card, because he was carrying on a relationship with his gay Canadian sponsor WHILE being "married" to his straight American wife
- if he was willing to scam his way into the U.S., he will be equally willing to scam his way into Canada

Those are the facts, and they can all be determined without so much as one question being asked about the previous relationship. And when that application is processed and those facts are visible, there will be a better chance of finding water on the sun than for that application to be approved.

Look, I'm sorry that you disagree with me. But you're wrong. It's not material to the application they will be viewing. He certainly won't be the first person to marry someone of the opposite sex, divorce and then marry someone of the same sex. And once he's got the 10 year green card, what's the advantage of him immigrating to Canada other than to be with his Canadian partner?

Immigration fraud is not a criminal offence and it does not make him inadmissible to Canada.

I know you want to be right. I kinda want you to be right too. But you're not. I know exactly what CIC is required by law to look at and assess. And I know that if this application is prepared well, it will be approved, likely without an interview. I'll bet you a dollar.

C'mon PMM. Chime in before they lynch me.

 

[civiquecent]

1) CIC will refuse your application because it's so blatantly obvious that it's all based on fraud.
2) CIC will inform U.S. Immigration that they have a person in the country with a green card obtained through fraud.

1) What makes my application look like fraud? I'm marrying him so we can continue our relationship together in Canada, not so he can simply get Canadian PR and leave me. If he wanted Canadian PR so badly, he'd pick a much simpler sponsor than myself who is stuck as a student in the USA for FOUR years and unable to start this process during that time. Why would anyone want to wait years for their sponsor to begin the sponsorship process, if it was only for fraud? I'm not the only Canadian he knows.
2) What business is it for CIC to tattle to US immigration? The US doesn't rule over Canadian immigration affairs. We aren't responsible to settle other countries' fraud cases if they don't ask us.

Two things:

1) You can't possibly make that determination without knowing the inner workings of his mind. For all you know, he's going to do the same thing to his "boyfriend" that he did with his "wife". Ergo, fraud.
2) The applicant in this case did not YET commit fraud because no paperwork has been filed YET.

1) See the 1) above.
2) rjessome meant that my boyfriend didn't commit fraud in Canada, which is what the CIC is looking for. He committed fraud in the USA, so how is that the CIC's business? Our relationship is genuine and trust me, you don't want to know the ways in which we can prove it. Who cares if his previous marriage in some other country wasn't genuine. Ours is, and it's their job to just look over our relationship.

They don't even need to bother asking any questions about the previous relationship. All they have to do is look at the facts:

- male from asian country goes to the U.S., marries a woman, gets a green card
- before said green card expires, he divorces the woman and marries a Canadian man
- the application will have to show how long both men knew each other, at which point it will be beyond obvious to CIC that his "marriage" was a sham, and that he was only using her for the green card, because he was carrying on a relationship with his gay Canadian sponsor WHILE being "married" to his straight American wife

Actually, he's going to divorce the woman AFTER his conditional (2yr) green card expires.
And yes, our relationship predates the marriage with the woman. who's to say he wasn't trying to conform to cultural standards by marrying a woman while maintaining a relationship with a man on the side? Plenty of gay men have had to do this out of pressure from family/society. We could argue that his parents wanted him to marry a woman (and they do want him to!), he did it out of pressure, yet he kept dating me, and then got a divorce because he finally mustered the courage.



One more question if anyone knows - When someone marries a Canadian, how soon can they enter Canada and find work? We ideally want to start supporting ourselves.

 

[Shiny88]

anyone who is supporting this man should be ashamed of themself. somebody should report this thread we do not need to help someone who is willing to do marriage fraud. If he is awared of what his partner did to gain green card in the US he should be dumb enough to know thats whats gonna happen to him next. Sorry if i hurt you. I want the best for you if you believe your partner you will surely regret applying pr.

 

[Shiny88]

One more question if anyone knows - When someone marries a Canadian, how soon can they enter Canada and find work? We ideally want to start supporting ourselves.
[/quote]I like your question i bet he need to pay you a ton as you will be bringing him as a pr. people like you made this immigration process so complicated, genuine relationship are suffering because of people selfish like you.

 

[amikety]

1) What makes my application look like fraud? I'm marrying him so we can continue our relationship together in Canada, not so he can simply get Canadian PR and leave me. If he wanted Canadian PR so badly, he'd pick a much simpler sponsor than myself who is stuck as a student in the USA for FOUR years and unable to start this process during that time. Why would anyone want to wait years for their sponsor to begin the sponsorship process, if it was only for fraud? I'm not the only Canadian he knows.
2) What business is it for CIC to tattle to US immigration? The US doesn't rule over Canadian immigration affairs. We aren't responsible to settle other countries' fraud cases if they don't ask us.
1) See the 1) above.
2) rjessome meant that my boyfriend didn't commit fraud in Canada, which is what the CIC is looking for. He committed fraud in the USA, so how is that the CIC's business? Our relationship is genuine and trust me, you don't want to know the ways in which we can prove it. Who cares if his previous marriage in some other country wasn't genuine. Ours is, and it's their job to just look over our relationship.
Actually, he's going to divorce the woman AFTER his conditional (2yr) green card expires.
And yes, our relationship predates the marriage with the woman. who's to say he wasn't trying to conform to cultural standards by marrying a woman while maintaining a relationship with a man on the side? Plenty of gay men have had to do this out of pressure from family/society. We could argue that his parents wanted him to marry a woman (and they do want him to!), he did it out of pressure, yet he kept dating me, and then got a divorce because he finally mustered the courage.



One more question if anyone knows - When someone marries a Canadian, how soon can they enter Canada and find work? We ideally want to start supporting ourselves.

There are no special circumstances for a foreigner married to a Canadian to get a work permit. He will have to qualify just like any other TFW. If money is tight, either he can live in a country where he has a legal right to work or apply Inland with a open work permit. After stage 1 approval, he would get the open work permit. This takes about 6 months currently. It's not advised he leave Canada while the application is in process.

OP, I'm sorry to say this, but by telling everyone your boyfriend is knowingly entered into a marriage of convience in the USA, you opened a can of worms on yourself. You didn't know - but this forum is very rule oriented by letter of the law. Some of us (not me) have been active on this forum for years. We have learned when something isn't quite right.... But I do truly hope your boyfriend is genuine with you.

 

[tuyen]

1) What makes my application look like fraud?

From YOUR vantage point, I'm sure everything is all peachy with rainbows and unicorns. But the fact is that you're in a relationship with a guy who scammed his way into the U.S., which makes you incredibly naive if you think he couldn't do the same thing with you.

This is exactly the same blinded-by-love syndrome that many women fall into. They start dating a guy with a known history of abuse and/or cheating, but they completely overlook it because they convince themselves that THEY will be the one to set him straight. And then all of a sudden when - lo and behold - it starts happening yet again, they sit there all wide-eyed and shocked as if they never saw it coming.

So if you want to convince yourself that he's absolutely incapable of using you the same way he used someone else, be my guest. And yes, I'm sure it's very easy to say "well he doesn't NEED to use me because he knows lots of Canadians". Yeah, be that as it may, but the fact is he picked YOU.

2) What business is it for CIC to tattle to US immigration? The US doesn't rule over Canadian immigration affairs. We aren't responsible to settle other countries' fraud cases if they don't ask us.

Canada and the U.S. have VERY close immigration ties, especially after 2001. Believe me when I tell you that by the time you file your application, they'll know all about your boyfriend whether you want them to or not. And because of an agreed-upon system of information exchange, the U.S. will know all about you as well, because it takes two to tango.

2) rjessome meant that my boyfriend didn't commit fraud in Canada, which is what the CIC is looking for.

And what I said was that a more accurate way of stating would be to say he didn't commit fraud in Canada YET.

He committed fraud in the USA, so how is that the CIC's business?

Seriously? Are you really that naive?
Your boyfriend wants to emigrate INTO Canada FROM the U.S. I think his background and immigration status in the U.S. is very much CIC's business.

Our relationship is genuine and trust me, you don't want to know the ways in which we can prove it.

You think you're the only who's ever been blindsided by a scammer? You think just because you've had sexual contact with him it makes your relationship "genuine"? Take a few minutes to search this forum (and others) on identical cases to yours, whereby people would swear up and down "but our relationship is genuine!!", only to then come back in a few months trying to find out if it's too late to withdraw their spousal sponsorship after it's already been filed.

Who cares if his previous marriage in some other country wasn't genuine. Ours is, and it's their job to just look over our relationship.

I honestly don't know if I want to laugh at you, or be sad for you.

And yes, our relationship predates the marriage with the woman. who's to say he wasn't trying to conform to cultural standards by marrying a woman while maintaining a relationship with a man on the side? Plenty of gay men have had to do this out of pressure from family/society. We could argue that his parents wanted him to marry a woman (and they do want him to!), he did it out of pressure, yet he kept dating me, and then got a divorce because he finally mustered the courage.

Sounds like you've got all the details to your little scam worked out perfectly. Just don't say you were never warned, and don't say nobody ever told you that these forums are actively monitored by CIC.

Ever heard the expression, "loose lips sink ships"? I have a feeling you're the captain on the HMS Titanic right about now.

 

[tuyen]

Look, I'm sorry that you disagree with me. But you're wrong. It's not material to the application they will be viewing.

Just because it's not material to YOU doesn't mean it's equally immaterial to CIC.

He certainly won't be the first person to marry someone of the opposite sex, divorce and then marry someone of the same sex.

You're right, he won't be the first - but how many such cases do you suppose come before CIC every year? I'm willing to bet it's a VERY small number, and it's precisely for that reason that they will scrutinize that application up and down, left and right.

Immigration fraud is not a criminal offence and it does not make him inadmissible to Canada.

...uhhmm, yeah, actually it IS a criminal offense. Fraud is fraud. And fraud IS a criminal offense, so when you perform a specific TYPE of fraud (namely, immigration), it doesn't negate the fact that it's still fraud.

Pay special attention to the very first sentence on this page:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/protection/fraud/index.asp

And then follow it up by taking a look at this one, while noting the part where it says "It is a crime for foreign nationals to marry Canadian citizens or permanent residents only to gain entry into Canada."

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/protection/fraud/marriage.asp

And last but not least, this one:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/protection/fraud/report.asp

I know you want to be right. I kinda want you to be right too. But you're not. I know exactly what CIC is required by law to look at and assess.

Therein lies the fallacy of your argument. You're assuming CIC will look ONLY at what's REQUIRED by law, while completely ignoring their rather wide discretionary measures to look at whatever and whomever they want, so long as they're connected to the application.

And I know that if this application is prepared well, it will be approved, likely without an interview. I'll bet you a dollar.

I'd happily take that bet, while tacking on several zeroes on the end of it, because there is no chance this application is going anywhere except the rejection pile. Your optimism is totally unfounded because you're completely overlooking the fact that one of the primary duties of CIC is to weed out scammers and stop them BEFORE they get into the country. And if there was ever a case that was clear cut and dry, this is certainly it. I mean, you have cases where a man and a woman have been married for years, they even have one or more children together, and they STILL get their applications refused. Meanwhile, you think greencard boy over here with a propensity for marrying whatever gender suits him that particular day, and with a total disregard for immigration laws WILL get approved? I'll gladly take that bet with ANY dollar amount you want to attach to it. The only problem is, I'll never have the pleasure of gloating, because you and I both know he's not going to come back here to admit that they got rejected faster than a fat kid rejecting celery.

 

[Shiny88]

Just because it's not material to YOU doesn't mean it's equally immaterial to CIC.

You're right, he won't be the first - but how many such cases do you suppose come before CIC every year? I'm willing to bet it's a VERY small number, and it's precisely for that reason that they will scrutinize that application up and down, left and right.

...uhhmm, yeah, actually it IS a criminal offense. Fraud is fraud. And fraud IS a criminal offense, so when you perform a specific TYPE of fraud (namely, immigration), it doesn't negate the fact that it's still fraud.

Pay special attention to the very first sentence on this page:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/protection/fraud/index.asp

And then follow it up by taking a look at this one, while noting the part where it says "It is a crime for foreign nationals to marry Canadian citizens or permanent residents only to gain entry into Canada."

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/protection/fraud/marriage.asp

And last but not least, this one:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/protection/fraud/report.asp

Therein lies the fallacy of your argument. You're assuming CIC will look ONLY at what's REQUIRED by law, while completely ignoring their rather wide discretionary measures to look at whatever and whomever they want, so long as they're connected to the application.

I'd happily take that bet, while tacking on several zeroes on the end of it, because there is no chance this application is going anywhere except the rejection pile. Your optimism is totally unfounded because you're completely overlooking the fact that one of the primary duties of CIC is to weed out scammers and stop them BEFORE they get into the country. And if there was ever a case that was clear cut and dry, this is certainly it. I mean, you have cases where a man and a woman have been married for years, they even have one or more children together, and they STILL get their applications refused. Meanwhile, you think greencard boy over here with a propensity for marrying whatever gender suits him that particular day, and with a total disregard for immigration laws WILL get approved? I'll gladly take that bet with ANY dollar amount you want to attach to it. The only problem is, I'll never have the pleasure of gloating, because you and I both know he's not going to come back here to admit that they got rejected faster than a fat kid rejecting celery.

WELL SAID TUYEN, THUMBS UP

 

[achander]

The pain caused if you get caught by CIC will be lot less, and i mean A LOT LESS than the pain that will be caused by USCIS. Lol...believe me, It's from first hand experience. I feel sorry for the girl who is or was married to you boyfriend. If you guys get caught....simply put she is f**ked!!

Its not GAY people who destroy the sanctity of marriage, it's people like you!

 

[canadianwoman]

Who cares if his previous marriage in some other country wasn't genuine. Ours is, and it's their job to just look over our relationship.

While I agree (partly) with rjessome that if your relationship with him is genuine, he will probably be accepted, keep in mind that one thing the visa officer will do is try to assess the intentions of the applicant. When they do this, they certainly do look at the applicant's history. So having gotten a green card by a fraudulent marriage will be an issue. It goes to the applicant's credibility: if an applicant has tried to get into any Western country by fraud (actually, any richer country), then the visa officer will probably wonder what is stopping this applicant from doing the same thing again, to you. Look at the case of forum member inlimbo: her husband entered South Korea illegally and was working there illegally - and his PR application to Canada was rejected because of this, even though his marriage to inlimbo appears genuine. They won on appeal, but ideally you do not want to have to go to an appeal.

So I think you will need a lot of evidence your relationship is genuine, just to outweigh the possibly negative view the visa officer will have of your boyfriend's credibility. You have time to get this evidence, though, so don't give up.

And yes, our relationship predates the marriage with the woman. who's to say he wasn't trying to conform to cultural standards by marrying a woman while maintaining a relationship with a man on the side? Plenty of gay men have had to do this out of pressure from family/society. We could argue that his parents wanted him to marry a woman (and they do want him to!), he did it out of pressure, yet he kept dating me, and then got a divorce because he finally mustered the courage.

I would definitely keep this in mind when filling out the application. At the interview, when asked about this, the above is a perfectly reasonable explanation of his marriage.

 

[Luckyman]

oh boy.....can you imagine the poor VO that would be reviewing this application if it comes across their desk...

Think about it...lots and lots of man to man relationship evidence, haha, like pictures, love letters, logs, developments...and they would be required to go through it all due to the enhanced scrutiny of the application...whew, glad I'm in automation field....hahaha

 

[amikety]

oh boy.....can you imagine the poor VO that would be reviewing this application if it comes across their desk...

Think about it...lots and lots of man to man relationship evidence, haha, like pictures, love letters, logs, developments...and they would be required to go through it all due to the enhanced scrutiny of the application...whew, glad I'm in automation field....hahaha

Please think about what you said here. It's more than a little offensive.

 

[backcountry]

This type of situation is precisely the reason so many legitimate marriages are scrutinized to the nth degree, often causing tremendous difficulty for those involved. The man's a fraudster, plain and simple. When so many make every effort to deliberately and conscientiously abide by the law, it would pain me not one whit to see this man found out and banned from immigrating to Canada.