Thank you again Leon. Yes, I do not plan to leave in the 2+ years period for sure. I just worry about the hearing since I have not had any experience. So, with hearing it is better for me to have an immigration lawyer ? Or based on what you know, there should be manageable for an 18 years old to handle alone? Thank you again.
Returning to Canada with Expired PR Card and Did Not Meet 730 Days Requirement
- Thread starter Josh2016
- Start date
Josh2016 said:
I AM NOT AN IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY. THIS IS NOT A LEGAL ADVICE. I JUST SHARE MY PERSONAL OPINION AND IT CAN NOT BE RELIED UPON TO MAKE ANY DECISION WITH LEGAL CONSEQUENCES.
If I were you I would NOT apply for TD, but I would travel to Canada by land.
Remember , you are PR of Canada unless CIC determines you aren't.
As PR you are entitled to enter Canada. If stripped of PR before entering Canada, you no longer are PR and no longer entitled to entry in Canada.
Applying to TD you put yourself at risk of being found in breach of RO. Your status can be stripped then, as well as TD denied.
I don't know what can you do if this happens. May be you can still file some kind of appeal from abroad and request reconsideration, I just never heard of it.
As PR who enters from US you are entitled to entry and all CIC can do is report you. Once they report you you can immediately file for appeal and bring all your evidence in your favor to overcome POE CIC finding.
Since you are 17 (and assuming you enter Canada BEFORE you turn 18) chances are you can retain your PR status based on your age alone.
As a kid you had no decision to make in matters of your parents, but now (even before you turn 18) you do all you can to return to Canada.
You may not even be found in breach of RO. CIC may not even report you because of your age.
But if worst happens then you go to court and if court disregards your age factor, then your additional evidence (about family circumstances) may help you win your case on compassionate grounds.
I don't think you will have any of these chances if you send TD and it's being decided by someone who just thinks the same way Leon does (that your being under 18 makes no difference at all, etc.). Imagine Leon on this forum is actually CIC officer who specifically decides TD apps and in his spare time visits this forum and posts here 8) He thinks he is right 100% and rules you in breach of RO . What will you do?
So, in my opinion you would be better off driving to border on rented car and bringing with you ALL the evidence you have (if you have or had ill relatives, bring any evidence to prove it: hospital bills, doctors letters, diagnosis, outcome prediction, level of care and personal assistance required, etc.). You need to bring EVERYTHING that can help to establish ANY claim you make. And don't delay your return.
I don't think 18y/o is a cutoff date, I think time it takes after 18 before you return is what they look at, but you would be much better off if you returned while still 17, even if by 1 day before you turn 18.
Good luck
Thank you David. I am very clear about what to bring and what to do next to enter via the US border.
The information I still need is how I can be prepared in the case I am reported (of course I hope not):
- will the officer tell me about reporting?
- will CIC send me an official letter that I have to appeal? What will the letter tell me? To come to court for hearing?
- how to file the appeal in the case they don't send me anything. (Where to file, any special form)
- the hearing will happen automatically or after I send an appeal?
Leon said the hearing can happen after 1-2 years, so it means I am in the middle of my university things. I assume that it will be another H&C support that Inhave been staying that long without leaving?
Thank you to all the kind people: Leon, Kateg and you, who spent time to provide valuable information for me.
The information I still need is how I can be prepared in the case I am reported (of course I hope not):
- will the officer tell me about reporting?
- will CIC send me an official letter that I have to appeal? What will the letter tell me? To come to court for hearing?
- how to file the appeal in the case they don't send me anything. (Where to file, any special form)
- the hearing will happen automatically or after I send an appeal?
Leon said the hearing can happen after 1-2 years, so it means I am in the middle of my university things. I assume that it will be another H&C support that Inhave been staying that long without leaving?
Thank you to all the kind people: Leon, Kateg and you, who spent time to provide valuable information for me.
WARNING! THIS IS A LEGAL DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT AN IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY !THIS IS NOT A LEGAL ADVICE ! I JUST SHARE MY PERSONAL OPINION, WHICH CAN BE INACCURATE AND LEGALLY ERRONEOUS, AND IT CAN NOT BE RELIED UPON TO MAKE ANY DECISION WITH LEGAL CONSEQUENCES !Josh2016 said:
Josh,
I don't know and am not sure what exactly the process is like, but this is my understanding of what may happen to you (based on what I have read and my past personal experience crossing to Canada via land POE):
- The first POE Officer looks at your COPR and ID, then looks into your eyes. During those few seconds he/she makes the decision what to do with you.
His first question is likely to be: do you have your PR Card?
If you answer "NO", his/her next question might be "When did you leave Canada?".
You should be truthful if asked (it can and will be used against you in court if you lie, and you can loose everything for misrepresentation).
In my experience I was sent to secondary with COPR, even though I was just a NEWLY LANDED PR.
Your chances of being sent to secondary are much greater, if you have old COPR and no valid PR Card.
If you are lucky, you might be waived in.
From my very few encounters I have formed an impression that their first line POE officers are nice and polite, they smile and show courtesy even if they send you to secondary. But they WILL send you to secondary if they are not sure of your admissibility.
- Next is secondary. Don't be afraid, keep your cool and be very calm.
You may encounter there some officers who will talk to you as if you were caught after you robbed vaults of Nova Scotia bank in Toronto and wanted to send all the proceeds to ISIS in Syria.
That's considered normal. After all they are secondary inspection, their job is to scare the bejesus out of you and make you panic or make you angry and charge you with resistance to authorities.
Keep your cool, instead,and give them clear, precise and honest answers.If asked specific questions provide relevant evidence in support of any claim you make (ex.of some questions you might be asked: how long have you been out of Canada? Why so long? What were you doing there? Why you didn't return earlier? What were your parents doing there?,and etc).
At this point I think they (at secondary) will decide whether to report you or let you go. I don't think the first line POE officer would report you. If I am wrong, and I might be wrong as said earlier, let other members of this forum correct me.
Now, if you are unlucky, sent to secondary and secondary CIC officers decide to report you, I am almost 100% sure they will inform you. I believe they even have an obligation to inform you and provide you with some letter, form or other document outlining what they have reported and how you can appeal their report or decision to strip you of PR status. If you get to this point, you will have 30 days to send the appeal so that you can defend your plea to keep your PR status.
Appeal will NOT happen if you do NOT request it! You MUST let CIC know within 30 days that you are appealing the decision of POE Officer to report and strip you of PR status. If you don't do that you will loose your PR status and there will be no way to regain it!
You should do extensive search of this forum for cases similar to yours, do additional google search and ask for opinion of those who have more knowledge and have dealt with breach of RO and appeals in past.
You should consult a licensed, professional attorney if you need a legal advice.
Good luck
David,
Thank you very much. I really appreciate this and will be prepared. I will get advise from the forum if I indeed get reported. I do not have driving license yet and will enter with Canadian cars. If I come with other person/people who is/are Canadian citizens, my friend/relative(s) can wait for me until all my interaction finishes, right? Will they be allowed to come with me to the secondary officer? Thank you again for your patience.
Thank you very much. I really appreciate this and will be prepared. I will get advise from the forum if I indeed get reported. I do not have driving license yet and will enter with Canadian cars. If I come with other person/people who is/are Canadian citizens, my friend/relative(s) can wait for me until all my interaction finishes, right? Will they be allowed to come with me to the secondary officer? Thank you again for your patience.
You might be considered a CHILD until you reach 22 years in Canada (provided you are unmarried).
I thought you would be considered adult as soon as you turned 18, but turns out I was wrong.
You should present every evidence to show that your breach of RO was beyond your control. See below.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op10-eng.pdf
Circumstances beyond the person’s control:
Are the circumstances that led to the person’s remaining outside of Canada compelling
and beyond their control?
Was the person prevented from returning to Canada? Why? By whom or by what event?
Are they now returning to Canada at the earliest possible opportunity?
Did the person leave Canada as a child accompanying a parent?
Are they now over 22 years of age and are returning at the earliest opportunity since
becoming 22 years of age?
Is the person over 22 years of age dependent on the parent they are accompanying because of a mental or physical disability?
I thought you would be considered adult as soon as you turned 18, but turns out I was wrong.
You should present every evidence to show that your breach of RO was beyond your control. See below.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op10-eng.pdf
Circumstances beyond the person’s control:
Are the circumstances that led to the person’s remaining outside of Canada compelling
and beyond their control?
Was the person prevented from returning to Canada? Why? By whom or by what event?
Are they now returning to Canada at the earliest possible opportunity?
Did the person leave Canada as a child accompanying a parent?
Are they now over 22 years of age and are returning at the earliest opportunity since
becoming 22 years of age?
Is the person over 22 years of age dependent on the parent they are accompanying because of a mental or physical disability?
Hi David, I do not know you but you are awesome. Thank you for helping me by answering my questions. I also appreciate Leon and Kateg, the three of you are great people!
As a child, it means then I can be accompanied by a relative/friend when facing the secondary officer. Do I need a parent permission letter? I assume not since that is for someone below 16 or 18, I assume.
So looking forward to returning to Canada.
As a child, it means then I can be accompanied by a relative/friend when facing the secondary officer. Do I need a parent permission letter? I assume not since that is for someone below 16 or 18, I assume.
So looking forward to returning to Canada.
The operational manual still mentions the age of 22 because it probably hasn't been updated yet. Until August of 2014, children were considered dependents by immigration until the age of 22. They since changed that to 19.
It used to be a safe bet to claim removed as a minor in order to get a pass on the RO, even up until mid-20's in some cases but this has changed and more and more people are getting denied. However, at 18, you are in any case still a dependent child and have a pretty good chance.
It used to be a safe bet to claim removed as a minor in order to get a pass on the RO, even up until mid-20's in some cases but this has changed and more and more people are getting denied. However, at 18, you are in any case still a dependent child and have a pretty good chance.
Very sloppy job on part of CIC website. If on August of 2014 the definition of Child was changed to include only those under 19, then why official website still shows age of 22?
Josh, that's why you must collect all your evidence and if push comes to shove go to court and make a case. I am sure there are many officers in CIC who have no better knowledge of current IRPA than their website admin does. They can always err, and usually when they err they err against immigrant.
Good luck with your return.
Josh, that's why you must collect all your evidence and if push comes to shove go to court and make a case. I am sure there are many officers in CIC who have no better knowledge of current IRPA than their website admin does. They can always err, and usually when they err they err against immigrant.
Good luck with your return.
Dear David, thank you for reminding me. I realize that many of you are indeed very knowledgeable and very helpful, too. Since I am still a minor, but 18 years old already, if I travel with an adult relative and friend, I do not need consent paper reform parents right? I saw that it is needed only for minors under 16 from what I googled.
Appreciate all the support I have got from you and I cross my fingers that they will allow me to enter as I come with genuine intent to stay permanently.
Appreciate all the support I have got from you and I cross my fingers that they will allow me to enter as I come with genuine intent to stay permanently.
18 is actually an adult in some provinces, in others it's 19 but immigration is going with 19. You do not need adult supervision to travel even if you were a bit younger than that. 16 and 17 is considered border line, for example for minor students in Canada to live alone and take care of themselves. If you were 16 or 17, they might want you to have a guardian here.
They will in any case let you enter. The question is just if you get reported. If you get reported, you can appeal. You would have a pretty good chance with your reasons.
They will in any case let you enter. The question is just if you get reported. If you get reported, you can appeal. You would have a pretty good chance with your reasons.
It takes a few months to renew it and travelling depends on if you are visa exempt or not. If you are visa exempt, you can still travel to Canada with an expired card without a problem. If you are not, you would have to either apply for a PR travel document or get a US visa and enter Canada by land from the US.Heidif said:
If you do not meet the RO and do not have humanitarian grounds for why you couldn't, you will be denied a PR travel document and if you try entering at the border, there is a chance you could get reported and have to appeal for your PR.
Thank you Leon. It is clear to me now.
Heidif, it varies how long it takes to renew a PR card pls check cic website. If you meet all requirement, should be around 3-5 months from what I read in the forum. If it is urgent, pls follow urgent processing process.
You can still travel with expired PR card and can get travel document from Canadian embassy/consulate to return. It should be pretty straightforward if you meet all requirement.
Heidif, it varies how long it takes to renew a PR card pls check cic website. If you meet all requirement, should be around 3-5 months from what I read in the forum. If it is urgent, pls follow urgent processing process.
You can still travel with expired PR card and can get travel document from Canadian embassy/consulate to return. It should be pretty straightforward if you meet all requirement.