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Requested business visa but was refused twice because of Travel history and Employment

mickeymark

Member
Jul 27, 2017
13
0
Hi Brianna thanks for replying

Employment contract issued by the Canadian employer + all-expenses paid by the Canadian employer = Your visit would be viewed as coming to Canada to work illegally on a Business TRV.

Instead, your situation calls for a Work Permit (which is generally difficult to get and there are too many hoops to go through first).


Our company consulted a canadian lawyer and said that work permits are not needed. We are not there just for training but also strategic/business planning.

Do you own a stake/percentage in the company in your home country?

In some countries, the rules require foreign companies to have a local partner to set up the company. Is this the case here?

Or has the company in your home country been set up as a 100% fully-owned subsidiary of the Canadian company? And, you helped to register this company for a certain remuneration.

Can you provide evidence of either situation?


No we dont own any percentage as this company was registered as a "Branch" and is 100% foreign owned. We have the actual Business registration that specifies the ownership of the company as 100% owned by the canadian company.

You need to prove that you are NOT the only employee on board in the company in your home country.

Actually for now there are two of us which is scheduled supposedly to go to Canada. The canadian company want's to additionally hire after we get back from the meeting and planning. One of our setup is a local partner that will look for clients for them here in our local country and will manage the local office and operations.

Training (if it is for a niche area of work or specialized technical training) is acceptable.
We are supposedly to be trained with the firmware and hardware which was setup in the Canadian office. Also with setting up specialized hardware that they own on the Canadian branch.


However, if you are coming to Canada to be trained in how to set-up the local business operations in your home country and/or to learn how to prepare a strategic business plan on how to enter the Asia-Pacific market then it makes your application to look suspicious/raises red flags.

The local branch of the business is already setup. My questions is, how does "Strategic Business Plan" activity suspicious? They already have 2 branches and 1 big client in asia so they need our office to be the main office for the asian sector.

Why? Because senior management who are employed for such roles would already have the experience and knowledge of the local market, the ground realities and are capable of building a business from ground zero upwards.


Senior Mgt has already came here and one reason that they are going to hire us is that they don't need to fly here every month and want the Senior mgt to stay in Canada. Also one reason for that they are going to outsource some north american project here and that as part of our job is to manage the local and the asian team. One reason for us being hired is that we are capable of handling asian teams culture wise. In our country, we are supposedly the "senior management" as we are going to manage the local and international operations, project, and team.

These senior management do not require the foreign company to guide them for drawing up go-to market and operations strategies. In fact, foreign companies hire such local senior managers precisely because these guys know the market very well as the foreign company may not be fully aware of the intricacies of setting up local business operations + local business practices + market sensibilities, etc etc.

We are the local senior managers.

Also, in such situations, typically the company in the local country would already have on board a senior HR director to kick-start the hiring process for employees across levels.

For now we are also the HR management as this is still starting and we are in the process of hiring HR associates.

Also, do you have prior experience/are you selling/buying into the APAC region through the companies owned by you?

Yes, i have handled local, asian, and north american projects.

It would have helped if you had submitted evidence that the company owned by you is actively trading (i.e. contracts, business bank statements, tax returns, etc and not just the business registration), pays taxes, etc + proof of ownership of property/land/commercial premises + valuation of movable/immovable assets, etc etc

Yes, i did showed my Business registration in one company that i own here locally. We also passed bank statements not just ours but also our company. My question is, why would the canadian embassy need my other asset as the 10yr old canadian company is that one that is hiring us and setting up a business here.
 

Bryanna

VIP Member
Sep 8, 2014
14,136
3,122
Hi,

Our company consulted a canadian lawyer and said that work permits are not needed. We are not there just for training but also strategic/business planning.
IMO, the Canadian employer is going about this in the wrong way based on incorrect advice provided by the Canadian lawyer. Like I've mentioned earlier, an employment contract issued by the Canadian company + fully-paid expenses qualifies as *work* and not as a business visit.

The correct approach would be:
1. The employment contract must be issued by the 100% foreign-owned subsidiary of the Canadian company in your home country.... and not directly by the Canadian company.

2. All expenses for your visit must be paid for/proved by this fully-owned subsidiary in the home country. Does the subsidiary company have an active business bank account in your home country?

3. You must prove the business relationship between both business entities.

Then this would not qualify as *work* but as a business visit for training and meetings.


We are supposedly to be trained with the firmware and hardware which was setup in the Canadian office. Also with setting up specialized hardware that they own on the Canadian branch.
You'll need to include documentation to prove that your previous work experience is in the same work area.


The local branch of the business is already setup. My questions is, how does "Strategic Business Plan" activity suspicious? They already have 2 branches and 1 big client in asia so they need our office to be the main office for the asian sector.
Yes, visiting Canada to draw up go-to market strategies and/or strategic planning does look suspicious. As someone who has worked as a senior manager in well-known global corporations including having set up departments from scratch, I can say this: senior managers are required to draft strategic business plans, go-to market strategies, etc without supervision.

A visit for this purpose is redundant as strategic business plans can be discussed and implemented without having in-person meetings + a one month visit for training and preparing business plans is too long.


They already have 2 branches and 1 big client in asia so they need our office to be the main office for the asian sector.
Would senior managers from the other branch offices be visiting at the same time as you to discuss strategic business plans considering the geographical business territory is the same?

Is someone else from your home country office also visiting Canada for the same purpose? Has his/her TRV been approved with the same paperwork?


Senior Mgt has already came here and one reason that they are going to hire us is that they don't need to fly here every month and want the Senior mgt to stay in Canada. Also one reason for that they are going to outsource some north american project here and that as part of our job is to manage the local and the asian team. One reason for us being hired is that we are capable of handling asian teams culture wise. In our country, we are supposedly the "senior management" as we are going to manage the local and international operations, project, and team.
Exactly. It's what I said in my previous post.


For now we are also the HR management as this is still starting and we are in the process of hiring HR associates.
Sorry but this is coming across as a one-man band. Personally, it does not make sense how you will hit the ground running when you don't have a team in place to deliver the deliverable besides the imminent launch/trading into the APAC region. No manpower and/or no infrastructure in place.


Yes, i have handled local, asian, and north american projects.
You'll need to submit appropriate evidence to prove you're the right man for the job (at least to IRCC).


Yes, i did showed my Business registration in one company that i own here locally.
1. Do the terms of your employment (Canadian company) permit you to continue with the company owned by you?

2. Setting up business operations for the APAC region is a full-time assignment (at least to me). Would you be able to prove to IRCC that you have the temporal resources to handle both the employment + your existing businesses simultaneously?

3. Are any of your existing companies (owned by you) in the same line of business (LOB) as that of the Canadian company i.e. similar hardware, firmware, projects, etc?
 
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mickeymark

Member
Jul 27, 2017
13
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Hi Brianna Thanks for the reply.

On applying under CIC, is it advisable that we create new account?

1. The employment contract must be issued by the 100% foreign-owned subsidiary of the Canadian company in your home country.... and not directly by the Canadian company.

Hi Brianna, the company here in our country is the same country in the Canada. This is their "branch" in our country.

2. All expenses for your visit must be paid for/proved by this fully-owned subsidiary in the home country. Does the subsidiary company have an active business bank account in your home country?

They do not have a subsidiary company here. This is the canadian company's "branch" in our country. Same name, same owner on registration.
Yes they do have an active business account.

3. You must prove the business relationship between both business entities.

Same company name, same company owner but just registered here in our country as "branch".

Yes, visiting Canada to draw up go-to market strategies and/or strategic planning does look suspicious. As someone who has worked as a senior manager in well-known global corporations including having set up departments from scratch, I can say this: senior managers are required to draft strategic business plans, go-to market strategies, etc without supervision.

A visit for this purpose is redundant as strategic business plans can be discussed and implemented without having in-person meetings + a one month visit for training and preparing business plans is too long.

Its training, orientation, plus planning.

Sorry but this is coming across as a one-man band. Personally, it does not make sense how you will hit the ground running when you don't have a team in place to deliver the deliverable besides the imminent launch/trading into the APAC region. No manpower and/or no infrastructure in place.


We do have an existing HR department in Canada which hired us directly and does the local interview through skype. We dont have a local HR team yet as we are in the process of hiring one.

2. Setting up business operations for the APAC region is a full-time assignment (at least to me). Would you be able to prove to IRCC that you have the temporal resources to handle both the employment + your existing businesses simultaneously?

I have my own team and senior partners in that company running with the company with me. Its already operational.

3. Are any of your existing companies (owned by you) in the same line of business (LOB) as that of the Canadian company i.e. similar hardware, firmware, projects, etc?

Yes, some service are the same but we focused on highly critical real-time financial operations more.
 

mickeymark

Member
Jul 27, 2017
13
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Thanks for the time answering my reply Brianna. Btw, the company has a local lawyer and a canada based lawyer discussing this scenario.
 

Bryanna

VIP Member
Sep 8, 2014
14,136
3,122
They do not have a subsidiary company here. This is the canadian company's "branch" in our country. Same name, same owner on registration.
While you may term it as a *branch*, it is in fact a legal entity called a *subsidiary* in your country. This *subsidiary* would have its own tax filing, payment and legal obligations, etc that would be determined by the jurisdiction/tax rules and the laws of your country.

And, yes, as a 100% fully-owned subsidiary of a foreign company, the legal entity i.e. subsidiary in your home country can retain the same name, same owner, etc as the Canadian company.


We do have an existing HR department in Canada which hired us directly and does the local interview through skype. We dont have a local HR team yet as we are in the process of hiring one.
Like I have mentioned in my previous post, the employment contract issued directly by the Canadian company + fully-paid expenses to Canada = Coming to Canada to work illegally for the Canadian company which is not allowed on a TRV (whether business or visitor).


I have my own team and senior partners in that company running with the company with me. Its already operational.
You had mentioned in your previous post that there were just two of you, no other employees. Anyway.


On applying under CIC, is it advisable that we create new account?
It's not possible besides IRCC already has your complete details in its database
 
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mickeymark

Member
Jul 27, 2017
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Hi @Bryanna sorry for the late reply btw. I traveled out-of-town unplanned. Thank you very much for the help and we really appreciate it. Our local lawyer is now talking with the canadian lawyer. For our part, we are not in a rush or any concern about going to canada as we are busy with our own affairs. Cheers!