Renew PR card while living in USA with citizen spouse?

[SigFan]

I'm a US citizen, moved to Canada on student visa in 2005.
I gained residency through CEC in Feb 2012.
I started working in Seattle, WA in 2014, splitting my time between my Seattle apartment and a Vancouver apartment I shared with Canadian citizen girlfriend, then wife (we married in Canada in 2016). I spent most weekends (Fri-Mon) in Vancouver, which meant I met the residency obligation by physical presence test when I renewed my PR card in 2017. That application took some time given the somewhat odd case (the attached sheet of my travel outside Canada was over 100 lines long) but was ultimately approved and I received a new PR card in 2017.

My Canadian wife and I moved to the USA full time around the same time I applied for my card in 2017. Now it's time to renew again. To meet my residency obligation, it would have to be via living with my Canadian citizen spouse as I've only made occasional visits to family and friends in Canada and for sure don't have anywhere close to 730 days in Canada in the last five years. But given the citizen spouse rule, I believe I've still met my residency obligation. And this was confirmed to me by a CBSA border agent when renewing my Nexus card in 2019.

Here's the problem: I don't have a residential address in Canada, which the PR Card renewal form asks for. The IRCC website explains that if your card expires while one is outside Canada, one should simply enter Canada on a PRTD and apply for a new card once back in Canada. PRTDs are only for commercial travel though - my wife and I always just cross the land border from WA to BC in our own private vehicle. And in any event, we're never in Canada long enough to wait the 80+ days of processing for a new card anyway.

So, I understand that just having an expired PR card doesn't mean I've lost my residency. But I also don't know how to apply for a card without a permanent Canadian residential address. I don't want to lie obviously, nor do I feel I'm doing anything against the letter of the law, given the citizen spouse exception. It just seems there is no obvious accommodation for someone in my situation. I'm imagining it will be best for me to explain and discuss with a CBSA agent the next time I cross (which will likely be with an expired PR card at a land border) to get some "official" advice, but figured I'd ask here too since I imagine this can't be that uncommon of a scenario... right?

 

[canuck78]

I'm a US citizen, moved to Canada on student visa in 2005.
I gained residency through CEC in Feb 2012.
I started working in Seattle, WA in 2014, splitting my time between my Seattle apartment and a Vancouver apartment I shared with Canadian citizen girlfriend, then wife (we married in Canada in 2016). I spent most weekends (Fri-Mon) in Vancouver, which meant I met the residency obligation by physical presence test when I renewed my PR card in 2017. That application took some time given the somewhat odd case (the attached sheet of my travel outside Canada was over 100 lines long) but was ultimately approved and I received a new PR card in 2017.

My Canadian wife and I moved to the USA full time around the same time I applied for my card in 2017. Now it's time to renew again. To meet my residency obligation, it would have to be via living with my Canadian citizen spouse as I've only made occasional visits to family and friends in Canada and for sure don't have anywhere close to 730 days in Canada in the last five years. But given the citizen spouse rule, I believe I've still met my residency obligation. And this was confirmed to me by a CBSA border agent when renewing my Nexus card in 2019.

Here's the problem: I don't have a residential address in Canada, which the PR Card renewal form asks for. The IRCC website explains that if your card expires while one is outside Canada, one should simply enter Canada on a PRTD and apply for a new card once back in Canada. PRTDs are only for commercial travel though - my wife and I always just cross the land border from WA to BC in our own private vehicle. And in any event, we're never in Canada long enough to wait the 80+ days of processing for a new card anyway.

So, I understand that just having an expired PR card doesn't mean I've lost my residency. But I also don't know how to apply for a card without a permanent Canadian residential address. I don't want to lie obviously, nor do I feel I'm doing anything against the letter of the law, given the citizen spouse exception. It just seems there is no obvious accommodation for someone in my situation. I'm imagining it will be best for me to explain and discuss with a CBSA agent the next time I cross (which will likely be with an expired PR card at a land border) to get some "official" advice, but figured I'd ask here too since I imagine this can't be that uncommon of a scenario... right?

You don’t need a Canadian residential address for your application to be processed. You need to be in Canada when you apply. In general if you are not living in Canada and apply for PR card renewal you are usually asked to pick up the card in person.

 

[SigFan]

I'm confused then, because looking at the application (IMM 5445) it asks for a "Current residential address in Canada" which to me reads as "where are you currently residing in Canada". Are you saying I just should put the address of where I'm staying (a relatives house, say) for that address? What if I was just staying in a hotel for two weeks? I wouldn't put the address of the hotel, surely that would raise red flags.

And then for address history, I would of course include my actual long term residential address in Seattle, which, if it didn't match the Canadian address would also raise red flags, no?

Or are you saying I should just put "Not applicable" in the "Current residential address in Canada" part?

 

[Ponga]

Just want to mention that there has been some discussion in these forums regarding a PR meeting the Residency Obligation (R.O.) while living abroad with their Canadian spouse or partner. Sometimes the `who followed whom' formula comes into play with IRCC. It sounds like your wife may have in fact `followed' you back to the U.S., but I'm not saying that will be a problem; only bringing it to your attention.

Here's but one of many discussions:
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/who-accompanied-whom-can-matter-for-prs-living-with-citizen-spouse-abroad-update.579860/page-6#post-10197023

As an aside:
Since you are a U.S. citizen with a valid U.S. passport, you don't even need a valid PR Card to fly to Canada and can certainly use the expired card for entering Canada at the airport. You will likely be sent to Secondary Inspection, but it's a valid option to driving.

 

[Ponga]

Is your wife also a U.S. citizen, or is otherwise living and working in the U.S. legally?

 

[SigFan]

Just want to mention that there has been some discussion in these forums regarding a PR meeting the Residency Obligation (R.O.) while living abroad with their Canadian spouse or partner. Sometimes the `who followed whom' formula comes into play with IRCC. It sounds like your wife may have in fact `followed' you back to the U.S., but I'm not saying that will be a problem; only bringing it to your attention.

Here's but one of many discussions:
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/who-accompanied-whom-can-matter-for-prs-living-with-citizen-spouse-abroad-update.579860/page-6#post-10197023

Yes, I've read lots about the who-accompanied-whom nuances, and agree it may hinge on that question in my case if it gets a lot of scrutiny.

As an aside:
Since you are a U.S. citizen with a valid U.S. passport, you don't even need a valid PR Card to fly to Canada and can certainly use the expired card for entering Canada at the airport. You will likely be sent to Secondary Inspection, but it's a valid option to driving.

Good to know. Part of my calculus in what to do (either re-apply for PR card or voluntarily renounce) is whether it's worth it to explain my complicated situation in secondary whenever I cross the border, likely with a new officer with their own opinion each time.

Is your wife also a U.S. citizen, or is otherwise living and working in the U.S. legally?

She is a Canadian citizen only (not dual) with a U.S. green card, living with me and working in the U.S.

 

[canuck78]

I'm confused then, because looking at the application (IMM 5445) it asks for a "Current residential address in Canada" which to me reads as "where are you currently residing in Canada". Are you saying I just should put the address of where I'm staying (a relatives house, say) for that address? What if I was just staying in a hotel for two weeks? I wouldn't put the address of the hotel, surely that would raise red flags.

And then for address history, I would of course include my actual long term residential address in Seattle, which, if it didn't match the Canadian address would also raise red flags, no?

Or are you saying I should just put "Not applicable" in the "Current residential address in Canada" part?

You have to be in Canada to apply which is likely why there is a requirement for current Canadian address. Would suggest attaching a letter of explanation about your address.

 

[SigFan]

Hey all, I have a happy ending update to my case.

Back in December, I followed canuck78's advice and included a letter with my application explaining the situation:

Regarding the included Application for a Permanent Residence Card for myself, <my name>:

My primary residence is <my US address>, where I live with my wife, <my wife's name>, who is a Canadian citizen.

<Wife> and I have been living together in Seattle for the past five years covered by this application. <Wife> is a U.S. permanent resident (green card holder) and works in Seattle as well.

<Wife> and I regularly return to Canada to see family and friends but have no permanent residential address in Canada. <Wife> and I are currently staying at the home of my mother-in-law, <mother-in-law's name> (<wife>’s mother) at <mother-in-law's address> and so I have listed this address under section 2.6 Current residential address in Canada on my application. But because this is not a permanent residence for me, I have not listed it under section 4.1 Address History (Inside and Outside Canada).

<signed with my name, UCI number, and the date>

On June 12th I received a letter via email/the online portal requesting I come pick up my card in person from the Vancouver IRCC office on June 29th (yesterday as of this post). It said a card had been printed but they wanted to confirm whether the 5 year card would be appropriate or a 1 year card should be provided instead. In researching this, it sounds like the 1 year card is usually only issued when they want to remove you, so I was a little nervous.

When I arrived, it was very casual and friendly. The worker explained for "option one" IRCC often wants people to come in to the office to pick up their card, just as canuck78 predicted. I hadn't heard the term "option one" before and he confirmed that's what they call it when someone's residency obligation is met through their citizen spouse.

He asked to see a couple pieces of photo ID - I showed him my US passport and my Washington state driver's license. He asked for proof of my current US residential address, which I had brought with me (the deed/title to my house with my wife and my names on it and the address). He asked when I last entered Canada, and I told him "yesterday at Peace Arch" (I drove up via the Nexus lane as I always do).

He then confirmed that I used my mother-in-law's address for "where I receive my Canadian mail" and asked for proof of her address. I hadn't anticipated needing that so didn't have anything on me, but he helpfully explained I could call her and take a bit of time to gather what I could, and he was happy to look at photos on my phone (what a relief!). So I phoned my mother-in-law while standing there in front of him and she was promptly able to text me some photos of her BC driver's license which had her address on it, as well as another piece of mail with her name and address on it. That was enough to satisfy the worker, and he handed over my new 5 year PR card! He took my old expired card, and that was it!

Thanks to the folks on this thread who offered their advice, and hopefully my experience can be beneficial to other US citizen Canadian permanent residents renewing their card while living in the states with their spouse.

 

[Tubsmagee]

@SigFan Thank you for the update, good information, especially about wanting to confirm address of your M-I-L. I wonder what they would accept if you used a rented mailbox to receive your Canadian mail.

 

[canuck78]

@SigFan Thank you for the update, good information, especially about wanting to confirm address of your M-I-L. I wonder what they would accept if you used a rented mailbox to receive your Canadian mail.

Would still not be your residential address only your mailing address and likely will have to pick up your card in person.

 

[Tubsmagee]

Would still not be your residential address only your mailing address and likely will have to pick up your card in person.

Probably, yes. After reading through the questions and info on form it is most likely a certainty to have pickup.

 

[Crown10]

Hey all, I have a happy ending update to my case.

Back in December, I followed canuck78's advice and included a letter with my application explaining the situation:



On June 12th I received a letter via email/the online portal requesting I come pick up my card in person from the Vancouver IRCC office on June 29th (yesterday as of this post). It said a card had been printed but they wanted to confirm whether the 5 year card would be appropriate or a 1 year card should be provided instead. In researching this, it sounds like the 1 year card is usually only issued when they want to remove you, so I was a little nervous.

When I arrived, it was very casual and friendly. The worker explained for "option one" IRCC often wants people to come in to the office to pick up their card, just as canuck78 predicted. I hadn't heard the term "option one" before and he confirmed that's what they call it when someone's residency obligation is met through their citizen spouse.

He asked to see a couple pieces of photo ID - I showed him my US passport and my Washington state driver's license. He asked for proof of my current US residential address, which I had brought with me (the deed/title to my house with my wife and my names on it and the address). He asked when I last entered Canada, and I told him "yesterday at Peace Arch" (I drove up via the Nexus lane as I always do).

He then confirmed that I used my mother-in-law's address for "where I receive my Canadian mail" and asked for proof of her address. I hadn't anticipated needing that so didn't have anything on me, but he helpfully explained I could call her and take a bit of time to gather what I could, and he was happy to look at photos on my phone (what a relief!). So I phoned my mother-in-law while standing there in front of him and she was promptly able to text me some photos of her BC driver's license which had her address on it, as well as another piece of mail with her name and address on it. That was enough to satisfy the worker, and he handed over my new 5 year PR card! He took my old expired card, and that was it!

Thanks to the folks on this thread who offered their advice, and hopefully my experience can be beneficial to other US citizen Canadian permanent residents renewing their card while living in the states with their spouse.

I am a Canadian citizen living with my family in the U.S. My wife has Canadian PR and only lived about 300 days in Canada. Now that we want to apply for PR renewal, we have run into the same problem. Based on what you said, we should select "I am outside Canada", and provide U.S address and phone? but once I select this option, the form gives me two options which are for PRTD. which one should we select? or not select these at all? we also lived nearly 3.5 years in the middle east together to which we do not have any proof of residency to show her name on it. we are honestly stating this fact, do we need to provide proof of that residency as well? her PR is expiring by the end of August and we will soon get our green card.

 

[Crown10]

our two children are Canadian born and I am a Canadian citizen too. therefore, we would like to keep my wife's PR, even though we would live in the U.S for the time being.

 

[steaky]

I am a Canadian citizen living with my family in the U.S. My wife has Canadian PR and only lived about 300 days in Canada. Now that we want to apply for PR renewal, we have run into the same problem. Based on what you said, we should select "I am outside Canada", and provide U.S address and phone? but once I select this option, the form gives me two options which are for PRTD. which one should we select? or not select these at all? we also lived nearly 3.5 years in the middle east together to which we do not have any proof of residency to show her name on it. we are honestly stating this fact, do we need to provide proof of that residency as well? her PR is expiring by the end of August and we will soon get our green card.

If she has no plans to live in Canada, she don't need to renew it. Expired PR card does not mean she longer is a PR.

She don't need a PR card to return to Canada. She can just travel by road with her vehicle.

 

[Crown10]

If she has no plans to live in Canada, she don't need to renew it. Expired PR card does not mean she longer is a PR.

She don't need a PR card to return to Canada. She can just travel by road with her vehicle.

We have no plan for now, but we don't know of future. If work condition changes, we might go there an live. we also want to travel there and having PR would be helpful. 3 out of 4 people in our family are now Canadian citizen, she is only one that would be out of status in Canada. we also have our kids' educational account with her name and would want to be able to access the fund for kids' future education. Therefore, maintaining her PR status is important for us.