Refusal of Visa

[Aragorn165]

Answering Yes to statutory questions would still make no difference to the PR application so definitely not a problem if they do answer Yes.

But this wasn't a refusal per se. No paperwork exists for this 'refusal'. This was a bad interview followed by a good interview and visa grant. This wasn't reapplication either (no new fees etc) or that's how I understood the situation as explained by the OP.

I did have to pay application fees for the second interview. However, no additional documents or paperwork were required.

 

[Aragorn165]

Sorry, it's been six years now, I'm forgetting a lot of this, sorry I don't just remember properly in one go.

If I do answer yes, do I explain this in a letter of explanation?

 

[Asivad Anac]

I did have to pay application fees for the second interview. However, no additional documents or paperwork were required.

New information! legalfalcon, can I insist that the defense not be allowed to bring in previously withheld information?

Jokes apart, it makes no real difference to your PR application whether you answer Yes or No to the statutory questions. Even if you answer Yes, no questions asked and no LOE required.

The point of discussion here was what really constitutes a visa refusal. I imagine that a visa refusal involves some paperwork (a refusal letter, at least) which outlines the reasons for such refusal. In the absence of any paperwork to that effect, it shouldn't be called a refusal.

The prosecution rests. Your witness, legalfalcon.

 

[Aragorn165]

New information! legalfalcon, can I insist that the defense not be allowed to bring in previously withheld information?

Jokes apart, it makes no real difference to your PR application whether you answer Yes or No to the statutory questions. Even if you answer Yes, no questions asked and no LOE required.

The point of discussion here was what really constitutes a visa refusal. I imagine that a visa refusal involves some paperwork (a refusal letter, at least) which outlines the reasons for such refusal. In the absence of any paperwork to that effect, it shouldn't be called a refusal.

The prosecution rests. Your witness, legalfalcon.

Thanks again!
Sorry Asivad, it's just been really long, and I had entirely forgotten this episode (repressed memories, maybe?). Sorry about bringing in information here piecemeal like this, i swear I'd have just laid it all out in its entirety if I had remembered it haha.

 

[Aragorn165]

Okay, to ensure clarity, let me just establish the full sequence of events. This is what happened, and how it went down.

* Got accepted by a US university
* Receive relevant documents from the university
* Apply for a US visa. Pay fees and schedule appointment.
* Visit the embassy for the interview- visa is not granted. Passport is returned without anything being stamped in it, and I am told to re-apply, since I do not demonstrate intent to immigrate (I just researched this, it is Section 214(b)). I receive no rejection letter.
* Apply for a new interview- involves a new appointment, new round of fees paid, new interview.
* Get there, and after a short interview, I am granted a visa.

Technically, is this a refusal or not?
If it is, I understand that no LoEs are required, but wouldn't a Yes here potentially hurt the application?

 

[Asivad Anac]

Okay, to ensure clarity, let me just establish the full sequence of events. This is what happened, and how it went down.

* Got accepted by a US university
* Receive relevant documents from the university
* Apply for a US visa. Pay fees and schedule appointment.
* Visit the embassy for the interview- visa is not granted. Passport is returned without anything being stamped in it, and I am told to re-apply, since I do not demonstrate intent to immigrate (I just researched this, it is Section 214(b)). I receive no rejection letter.
* Apply for a new interview- involves a new appointment, new round of fees paid, new interview.
* Get there, and after a short interview, I am granted a visa.

Technically, is this a refusal or not?
If it is, I understand that no LoEs are required, but wouldn't a Yes here potentially hurt the application?

Answer Yes. Won't have any impact on your PR application.

 

[Aragorn165]

Answer Yes. Won't have any impact on your PR application.

Alright, thanks.
Sorry for so much confusion, again!

 

[legalfalcon]

Answering Yes to statutory questions would still make no difference to the PR application so definitely not a problem if they do answer Yes.

But this wasn't a refusal per se. No paperwork exists for this 'refusal'. This was a bad interview followed by a good interview and visa grant. This wasn't reapplication either (no new fees etc) or that's how I understood the situation as explained by the OP.

With all due respect, when a US visa application is denied it is a refusal. Based upon the circumstances they will ask you to really, which entails paying the fee again. Sine the Canadians and the Americans share their information regularly, it may be a problem in the BG check is someone goes probing. The application will not be affected by answering yes as long as it is mention that the visa was granted on the second interview.

I am sure that OP get a second interview but did pay the fee again.

 

[legalfalcon]

The point here is neither was he issued a denial(written i mean) letter, nor did he apply again to re-pay the visa fee. Hence this is technically not a denial.

So he can answer 'NO'.

The US embassy never gives a refusal letter. Returning your PP without a visa is a denial. They do not even answer why a visa is denied. Moreover as per OP,

• "* Apply for a new interview- involves a new appointment, new round of fees paid, new interview."

he paid the fee again, reapplied and this was his second try on a new application. And I can assure you that in the new application he will have mentioned the in the previous try his was not granted a visa. The first try was a refusal.

Further, as per OP, he did not establish eligibility for the visa category being applied for or overcome the presumption of being an intending immigrant - INA section 214(b). This was his reason for denial.

If he answers NO to the statutory questions it will be misrepresentation. Having dealt with US immigration law as a lawyer, even in subsequent visa applications to the US, OP will have to mention that he was denied US visa once.

 

[ag2015usa]

The Department of State rules state the any visa application MUST be dealt with (issued a decision) the same day. If any documents are missing/required, technically what happens is the visa is refused on the first day and, when the documents are submitted, a NEW application is approved.

So I will agree with legalfalcon here, the visa was refused.

Since it makes no difference to the PR application, why not just select "Yes", provide an explanation in the LOE and be done with it rather than risk an allegation of misrepresentation by CIC?

 

[legalfalcon]

Answer Yes. Won't have any impact on your PR application.

I beg to strongly differ. Let me put things in simple perspective.

1. OP was denied visa § 214(b) of the INA which stipulates that OP did not establish eligibility for the visa category being applied for or overcome the presumption of being an intending immigrant.
2. If an applicant is found ineligible under § 214(b) of the INA, the applicant should be able to present evidence of significant changes in circumstances since his last application.
3. Changes in circumstances here refer to showing the intent to return to home country after graduating. OP applied for F1 (Student visa) which is a non immigrants visa, unlike H1B or O that have a dual intent.

After he was denied, he should have been given a refusal letter, or informed of one. This is why he reapplied, filed a new application, got a second interview and received the visa.

As far as my humble opinion goes, he should disclose it. It will not matter much, since his travel history will show that he came to the US and if he studied in the US he will have to submit FBI PCC.

But saying no DOES amount to misrepresentation, and its better to be safe than sorry. If applicants have lied and got away with it, its their luck. Remember you are not a thief unless you are prosecuted and your crime proven, but please don't play with your future.

 

[legalfalcon]

The Department of State rules state the any visa application MUST be dealt with (issued a decision) the same day. If any documents are missing/required, technically what happens is the visa is refused on the first day and, when the documents are submitted, a NEW application is approved.

So I will agree with legalfalcon here, the visa was refused.

Since it makes no difference to the PR application, why not just select "Yes", provide an explanation in the LOE and be done with it rather than risk an allegation of misrepresentation by CIC?

Appreciate your input ag2015usa. When a visa application is denied for not submitting documents, the denial is under § 221(g) of the INA. In this case the law clearly states that when "an applicant wishes to reapply for a visa after being found ineligible, with the exception of 221(g) refusals, the applicant must submit a new visa application and pay the visa application fee again."

So technically, if a visa is denied under § 221(g), that would not amount to denial because its the same visa application.

 

[Asivad Anac]

I beg to strongly differ. Let me put things in simple perspective.

1. OP was denied visa § 214(b) of the INA which stipulates that OP did not establish eligibility for the visa category being applied for or overcome the presumption of being an intending immigrant.
2. If an applicant is found ineligible under § 214(b) of the INA, the applicant should be able to present evidence of significant changes in circumstances since his last application.
3. Changes in circumstances here refer to showing the intent to return to home country after graduating. OP applied for F1 (Student visa) which is a non immigrants visa, unlike H1B or O that have a dual intent.

After he was denied, he should have been given a refusal letter, or informed of one. This is why he reapplied, filed a new application, got a second interview and received the visa.

As far as my humble opinion goes, he should disclose it. It will not matter much, since his travel history will show that he came to the US and if he studied in the US he will have to submit FBI PCC.

But saying no DOES amount to misrepresentation, and its better to be safe than sorry. If applicants have lied and got away with it, its their luck. Remember you are not a thief unless you are prosecuted and your crime proven, but please don't play with your future.

Thanks for clearing the air on this one! Appreciated!

 

[legalfalcon]

Thanks for clearing the air on this one! Appreciated!

Anyime!

 

[Aragorn165]

Thank you for the very detailed explanations
I will go ahead and answer the question with 'Yes,' and clarify the answer in the letter of explanation. This won't affect my chances, right?