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Refugee Travel Document - Questions and Answers

CanDude76

Member
Feb 2, 2016
16
16
Dear experts,
Please advise that which country is suitable in terms of getting the visa from here as well easy for family back home, an affordable ticket and accommodation to meet my family. As a refugee you know I can't go back to see my family in Pak.
please comment those members who have vast traveling experience.
 

light88

Star Member
Jul 14, 2014
87
15
Thank you RainbowBee for all the effort. someone had to come and put this together. very organized and instructive.

there is a gray area regarding the cessation rules. by cessation I mean revoking refugee and PR status.

I called every department involved in this. I called CIC, Passport Canada, CBSA and Refugee board. no one was able to give me straight answer. and call center agents are not very qualified to give insight in this matter.

amusing thing is that the CIC officer I had landing interview with answered me in a similar way yours did. she said: you could use your national passport to travel but on your own risk'' I asked what is the risk, she said: ''if something happens to you while outside Canada you won't be able to seek help from Canadian Embassy''
then I asked if CBSA or CIC will apply to revoke my refugee status if I used it. she said:'' no I never heard of that''

kind of a contradiction if you ask me. only thing left for me was to review cessation cases from federal court website.

I reviewed cases of people who got called in to a court hearing for using national passport or travelling back to their home country. only few got their refugee status stripped away from them and they were not automatically deported back. they are still in limbo so to speak.

it all depends on proving that you still have subjective fear, that you did not act voluntarily, whether you were fully aware of risks or not, and if your country of origin did actually give you protection when you traveled back or sought their embassy to renew the passport.

the refugee board also relies on other factors to determine whether the person should lose their refugee status, these include the duration of stay in home country, the number of time person used their national passport and whether they were justified to use it or not.

best thing to do I would say. is to stay clear from renewing or using national passport to stay on the legit side and guarantee citizenship. this is what I will do. and this is what all refugees should do :)
 

LoveCanada10

Star Member
Jan 3, 2015
103
41
rainbowbee said:
Guys,

Thanks for your feedback :) I am glad you find this information helpful! All this mystery was driving me crazy, finally I see things clearly.

@LoveCanada10, you can translate it of course, but include a link to original message too.

Norway just started accepted RTD, not long ago it wasn't. :) It's confirmed now on Royal Danish Embassy website as well:

http://canada.um.dk/en/travel-and-residence/visas/general-information/common-passport-issues/

I emailed them and they told me that maybe Iceland is planning to accept the RTD, but as long as the EU excel spreadsheet does not reflect this, they are unfortunately not allowed to issue a visa into RTD.

Also I emailed directly to Iceland Ministry of the Interior about RTD, waiting to get a reply 8)
I also emailed them. Hopefully they change the rules. It doesn't make any sense all good European countries accept this except Spain and Iceland. I mean, Iceland is no better than Norway, Finland, Sweden which accept our RTD. Iceland show some respect :D
 

LoveCanada10

Star Member
Jan 3, 2015
103
41
CanDude76 said:
Dear experts,
Please advise that which country is suitable in terms of getting the visa from here as well easy for family back home, an affordable ticket and accommodation to meet my family. As a refugee you know I can't go back to see my family in Pak.
please comment those members who have vast traveling experience.
I'd say Iran/Jordan/Turkey are all good options for your family. Turkey is probably the best for you for cheaper / direct fly from Canada.
 

LoveCanada10

Star Member
Jan 3, 2015
103
41
light88 said:
Thank you RainbowBee for all the effort. someone had to come and put this together. very organized and instructive.

there is a gray area regarding the cessation rules. by cessation I mean revoking refugee and PR status.

I called every department involved in this. I called CIC, Passport Canada, CBSA and Refugee board. no one was able to give me straight answer. and call center agents are not very qualified to give insight in this matter.

amusing thing is that the CIC officer I had landing interview with answered me in a similar way yours did. she said: you could use your national passport to travel but on your own risk'' I asked what is the risk, she said: ''if something happens to you while outside Canada you won't be able to seek help from Canadian Embassy''
then I asked if CBSA or CIC will apply to revoke my refugee status if I used it. she said:'' no I never heard of that''

kind of a contradiction if you ask me. only thing left for me was to review cessation cases from federal court website.

I reviewed cases of people who got called in to a court hearing for using national passport or travelling back to their home country. only few got their refugee status stripped away from them and they were not automatically deported back. they are still in limbo so to speak.

it all depends on proving that you still have subjective fear, that you did not act voluntarily, whether you were fully aware of risks or not, and if your country of origin did actually give you protection when you traveled back or sought their embassy to renew the passport.

the refugee board also relies on other factors to determine whether the person should lose their refugee status, these include the duration of stay in home country, the number of time person used their national passport and whether they were justified to use it or not.

best thing to do I would say. is to stay clear from renewing or using national passport to stay on the legit side and guarantee citizenship. this is what I will do. and this is what all refugees should do :)
I don't know a single person which got their status revoked because of traveling back home. Yes, it was risky during Harper's government but I don't believe CIC will exercise that power now. However, I personally will never risk going back home till I get my citizenship. We sacrificed a lot and Canada welcomed us so we should respect the rules.
 

Alberta2013

Newbie
Feb 13, 2016
2
0
Hi,
great forum thanks for the effort of running it. My wife,daughter and I are protected persons with PR application sent in May 2015. still waiting. We also applied and received RTD.
We are living in Alberta and planing trip to Sydney Australia in March to visit my sister. My questions are :
1. Does Australia accept Canadian RTD ?
2. Can we expect some interviews on airports going out and coming back in?
3. Also we still looking for the tickets - if we decided to buy ticket with one stop in USA (Los Angeles our Seattle) do we need visa for USA then.
It would be just transit 2h between flights without leaving the airport building.

Thank You!
 

LoveCanada10

Star Member
Jan 3, 2015
103
41
Alberta2013 said:
Hi,
great forum thanks for the effort of running it. My wife,daughter and I are protected persons with PR application sent in May 2015. still waiting. We also applied and received RTD.
We are living in Alberta and planing trip to Sydney Australia in March to visit my sister. My questions are :
1. Does Australia accept Canadian RTD ?
2. Can we expect some interviews on airports going out and coming back in?
3. Also we still looking for the tickets - if we decided to buy ticket with one stop in USA (Los Angeles our Seattle) do we need visa for USA then.
It would be just transit 2h between flights without leaving the airport building.

Thank You!
Hello,

I did a quick 1 minute Google search and found that even if you have travel document from Australia you are required to get a visa to travel outside Australia and return so YES you need a visa for Australia. I don't think there will be interview if you get the visa.

Of course this is the case if your country of origin requires Visa to Australia. Call them to confirm.

http://www.border.gov.au/Lega/Lega/Mana/document

Documents issued to refugees (a visa is required)

For USA, YES you need a visa even if you are a PR unless your country of origin doesn't require you to get a visa for USA even if it is transit.

Hope this helps.

Regards
 

amahmustang

Full Member
Nov 26, 2015
35
0
LoveCanada10 said:
Countries in Europe which accept RTD without visa:

1. Germany
2. Hungary
3. Slovenia
4. Slovakia

Countries in Europe which do NOT accept RTD:

1. Norway
2. Iceland
3. Spain
4. Portugal

Actually there is an excel file on EU web site for what countries accept what documents. I can't find it now!!
Are you trying to say that Spain don't accept the RTD itself even if you have the Schengen visa? where did you read that? Please advice thanks
 

amahmustang

Full Member
Nov 26, 2015
35
0
rainbowbee said:
I created this topic to share my knowledge and experience with all of you. I will try to answer some important questions and concerns regarding travel as a Convention Refugee or a Protected Person living in Canada.

I’m not a lawyer, just a person who likes clarity. I am very proud to call Canada my new home. I want continue traveling and explore the world, but at the same time stay I want to stay mindful, and avoid doing anything wrong that would compromise my PR or Refugee status here. Some terms are below being simplified.

As most of you know, when you make your refugee claim, your passport is being seized by CIC or CBSA.

When my refugee claim was accepted I discovered that there are certain things we are not advised to do:

• Do not travel back to your home country
• Do not renew your home country’s passport.
• Do not travel on your home country’s passport, even to a third country, such as USA for example
• Just simply don’t have any contact with embassy of your home country.

All those things could put you at risk of losing your refugee status, because CBSA may interpret those actions as you no longer fear your home country, so you no longer need Canada’s protection.

I am not able to specify which law applies here and so on, but I know for sure that there are legal cases in which government took action and stripped or tried to strip person’s protection because they did one of above mentioned things.

Also it’s a matter of interpreting the law, so I think we should take those warnings seriously, it’s our lives and protection we are talking about.

If you want to get more information, I would suggest checking out Canadian Council for Refugees and other websites.

After I received a positive decision on my refugee claim, soon I applied for RTD and was able to get it. It says that the RTD validity period is determined by the issuing office. In my case it was issued for 2 years. I personally know at least four other cases, where people applied for RTD before becoming PRs and received it also for 2 years. So I guess it’s safe to assume that majority of people, before PR will get it for 2 years.

When I was applied for it, I noticed that on application form it says: “I understand that if I am issued a Canadian travel document and later obtain a passport issued by my country of citizenship, I am obliged to return the Canadian travel document to Passport Program, Citizenship and Immigration Canada.”

Obviously I started to get worried, because once I become a PR, CIC will return my national passport and in theory I must return RTD. I will have no choice, but to use my national passport to travel, but I don’t want to do that! What should I do?!

After more than two years, I got my PR interview, I got my passport back, at the end of my interview I decided to ask officer in person about my RTD dilemma.
So I did, I called them and I talked with call center agent at first, and explained my situation:

So finally after several minutes of back and forth, agent agreed to put a special call back request directly from “Certificate of Identity Section - Passport Program” located in Gatineau, QC.

Next day I received a call and talked with a senior officer from that department, I explained my situation to him and finally I got the missing peace of a puzzle.
Some important points and additional information:

• As a Convention Refugee or a Protected Person in Canada we do have a right to travel.

• In order to be able to travel internationally, we must have a valid Travel Document.

• The only Travel Document we entitled to is a Refugee Travel Document, forget about Certificate of Identity

• In order to apply for RTD you need to use an application form “[PPTC 190] Adult travel document application form”, form is universal and is used to apply for both – RTD and COI.

• After becoming a Permanent Resident, you are still considered to have a refugee status in Canada

• RTD issued for 2 years before PR and after becoming PR for 5 years

• If you got your national passport back when you became PR, do not use it, instead send it to “Certificate of Identity Section - Passport Program” along with your explanation letter

Travel Document - is an identity document issued by a government and allowing us to travel internationally. Generally, Travel Documents look like a passport-like booklets. The most common Travel Document is a Passport.

Government of Canada has a special department responsible for issuing Travel Documents for Refugees and Stateless Persons, and it’s called: “Certificate of Identity Section - Passport Program”, located in Gatineau, QC

That department is issuing two types of a Travel Documents:

1. Refugee Travel Document (light blue) (United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, 1951 and its Protocol of 1967): issued to persons in Canada with protected person status, including Convention refugees and persons in need of protection

2. Certificate of identity (grey or formerly brown): issued to permanent residents of Canada who are not yet Canadian citizens, who are stateless or who are unable to obtain a national passport.

Personally I would advise everyone including myself, travel only using RTD, we shouldn’t put ourselves at risk. Getting RTD for 5 years is a great solution and hopefully by the time we need to renew it, we will have our Canadian Citizenship :)

I will mention it again, I am not a lawyer, just sharing summary of my findings with you. If you have additional questions or information, you are welcome to ask and contribute.

Thanks a lot for sharing your experience. I have a question, do I still need to return my national passport to the identity section if my national passport is expired? Or this just only applies when the national passport is valid?
 

rainbowbee

Member
Sep 9, 2015
18
83
amahmustang said:
Are you trying to say that Spain don't accept the RTD itself even if you have the Schengen visa? where did you read that? Please advice thanks
Excel spreadsheet with information regarding travel document acceptance of all member states (Travel documents issued by third countries and territorial entities [Part I]):
http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/index_en.htm

I actually emailed Spanish Embassy in Canada and haven't received answer yet. If it's really important to you, I would suggest you do the same.

amahmustang said:
Thanks a lot for sharing your experience. I have a question, do I still need to return my national passport to the identity section if my national passport is expired? Or this just only applies when the national passport is valid?
You're welcome! I believe only when you applying for RTD you need to enclose your passport, valid or not. From instructions on PPTC 190 - "Enclose any valid or expired foreign travel document or national passport issued to you or in which your name appears."

If you are not planning to apply for RTD and CIC returned you your expired passport, I think it doesn't make sense to return it, As officer mentioned - you cannot have two valid documents at the same time, and if yours is expired, it's no longer valid.

But if you want 100% confirmation, I would suggest contacting RTD section like I did.
 

LoveCanada10

Star Member
Jan 3, 2015
103
41
amahmustang said:
Are you trying to say that Spain don't accept the RTD itself even if you have the Schengen visa? where did you read that? Please advice thanks
Yes, that's unfortunately true. There is an excel file posted by Schengen authority I already posted here:

Go here http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/index_en.htm and then first under info. Direct URL is: http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/document-security/docs/part_i_travel_documents_issued_by_third_countries_and_territorial_entities_en.xlsm
 

Babysugar

Newbie
Oct 2, 2015
2
0
Thank you for such a useful information
but i wanted to ask that i have 2 kids 7 & 3 yrs old, how can i apply for RTD ? is there any different form than the one you included in your post ? or its the same one ? please let know because i want to apply asap ..

thank you again and appreciate your help :)
 

LoveCanada10

Star Member
Jan 3, 2015
103
41
Babysugar said:
Thank you for such a useful information
but i wanted to ask that i have 2 kids 7 & 3 yrs old, how can i apply for RTD ? is there any different form than the one you included in your post ? or its the same one ? please let know because i want to apply asap ..

thank you again and appreciate your help :)
It is basically same procedure but different application form for children under 16. Here is what you need to fill for your children: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/passport/forms/pdf/pptc192.pdf

Also more info and forms here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/passport/forms.asp