+1(514) 937-9445 or Toll-free (Canada & US) +1 (888) 947-9445

Refugee status cessation and PRs applying for citizenship

frankwhyte22

Full Member
May 1, 2016
38
3
sopranotb said:
This discussion in the House yesterday is very very encouraging:



Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship

[Expand]
Ms. Jenny Kwan (Vancouver East, NDP):
Madam Speaker, I am calling on the Liberal government t repeal the cessation provisions of Bill C-31, Protecting Canada's Immigration System Act.
Bill C-31 came into force on December 15, 2012, and it is retroactive. Cessation applications are being brought against permanent residents because it is alleged that refugees have re-availed themselves of protection by temporarily travelling back to their country of origin. No matter that the conditions of the country of origin have changed, no matter that they are going back to see a dying relative for one last time, no matter that the law did not exist at the time of travel, people are at risk of losing their permanent resident status.
This law effectively created a two-tier system for permanent residents: those who could travel back to their countries of origin without repercussions and those who could not. This is to say that refugees who gained their permanent resident status legitimately could lose their PR status for returning to their country of origin for a visit. No other permanent residents face this risk. These permanent residents are fully integrated and settled into Canadian society, gainfully employed, have Canadian-born children, and are contributing to Canada. To be clear, cessation cases do not involve fraud or misrepresentation.
Let me share with members the story of the Esfand family. Mrs. Bahareh Esfand and her first daughter were classified as refugees under the principle of family unity. They originally came to Canada under the government's sponsor refugee resettlement program because her husband was found to be at risk in Iran. Since their arrival in Canada, Mrs. Esfand gave birth to her second daughter in Canada. The Esfand family is now a well-established, self-supporting family of four, who have called Canada home for the last 10 years.
When Mrs. Esfand applied for her citizenship, it triggered the cessation process, and the government is trying to revoke her status here. It is alleged that because she returned to Iran to see her family, she should cease to be a refugee, lose her permanent resident status, and be ineligible for citizenship.
Even though Mrs. Esfand's husband and her two children are Canadian citizens, CIC has frozen her 2011 citizenship application and is trying to revoke all her status in Canada. If it is successful, she will be removed from Canada, away from her children and husband, and deemed as a foreign national with no status in Canada. She has been fighting against this and is now defending the third court case filed against her by CIC. She has also been forced to file her own case to lift the freeze on her citizenship application.
Surely, any reasonable person can see the absurdity of this. By the way, Mrs. Esfand was not a refugee at risk in the first place, only her husband was, and she came under family unity.
Her case is just one among many. Through FOI, an internal document show that an annual target of a minimum of 875 vacation or cessation cases has been set for CBSA to execute. As a result, refugees are being investigated, their PR status ceased, and cases are ending up in court. This even applies to those who come from countries where there is a moratorium on removals and those who are still at risk if returned. This just makes no sense.
As we know, in real life, people travel to visit a sick or dying family member or for other legitimate reasons. To top it all off, the investigations for some of these families are triggered when they apply for citizenship. Now we are hearing reports that people are afraid to apply for citizenship. How much of taxpayer money is being wasted on cessation cases? How many officials are working on cessation cases instead of processing the backlogs of family reunification cases? How many cases has the government targeted? How many people have been deported? These are the questions that people are asking.
(1945)

[Expand]
Mr. Arif Virani (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship, Lib.):
Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Vancouver East for raising this important issue in the House and for her continued advocacy on the part of immigration issues as the opposition critic.
This is an important debate on cessation issues in the former Bill C-31 enacted by the previous government, and the impact it has on permanent residents.
The hon. member for Vancouver East has asked a very important question, and has raised this previously with our government. In fact, the government is in absolute agreement with the hon. member for Vancouver East on the need to review this very important piece of legislation and its impact since it was enacted under the former Bill C-31.
We have, in this country, a long and proud tradition of providing protection to those in need. We have one of the fairest and most generous immigration and asylum systems in the world. Our immigration laws are applied impartially, they are based on facts, and they are meant to accord with due process.
The authority of the independent and quasi-judicial IRB, the Immigration and Refugee Board, to determine whether an individual's refugee protection has ceased is not itself a new provision. It actually predates the 2012 asylum system reforms. As well, it is important to specify that the authority to revoke permanent resident status, including the permanent resident status of a refugee, also existed before Bill C-31.
However, what is very troubling about Bill C-31 is that under the 2012 reforms enacted by the previous government, cessation of protected person status was added as grounds for losing one's permanent resident status. That effectively meant it was double-barrelled. That meant that both protected person status and permanent resident status now end simultaneously once a refugee in Canada has demonstrated that they are no longer in need of protection.
The minister, himself, has said in the House that he agrees that the legislation, which has been identified by the member for Vancouver East, is part of a long legacy of matters inherited from the previous government that our government desperately wants to review, and will review.
As members know, we are not at liberty to discuss particulars of a specific case due to privacy considerations, but the minister has expressed public sympathy with the point the hon. member is raising. I can assure the House that the government is reviewing policies and legislation introduced in recent years with a view to developing proposals to improve them.
In a relatively short time, and I will demonstrate to the House a number of measures we have taken in short order to address the legislative initiatives of the previous government that were very problematic.
For example, in terms of the government's respect for the rulings of the Federal Court, the Federal Court had found in December 2011 that the policy requiring the removal of face coverings to take the oath of citizenship was unlawful. We agree with that decision; the previous government did not. We dropped the appeal of that decision to the Supreme Court of Canada. That is the case of Ishaq v. Canada.
Another example of us being more than willing retract and retrench on legislation by the previous government is rescinding the legislation that came in under Bill C-24. We have introduced amendments to the Citizenship Act that members of the House will be familiar with. Bill C-6 makes it easier for applicants to meet citizenship requirements and helps encourage their sense of belonging and connection to Canada. It also eliminates the two classes of citizenship that were perpetuated by the previous government, which we stood fundamentally against and campaigned against.
Another example of our government's review of existing procedures that help to promote greater openness and better processing is our response regarding Haitian and Zimbabwean nationals. On February 4 of this year, the Government of Canada announced that Haitian and Zimbabwean nationals in this country would be provided another six months to apply for permanent residence on humanitarian and compassionate grounds—
(1950)

[Expand]
The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes):
We have to resume. The hon. member for Vancouver East.
[Expand]
Ms. Jenny Kwan:
Madam Speaker, there are laws that are fair and just, and there are laws that are not.
The cessation provisions contained in Bill C-31 is an example of an unjust and absurd law. This law discriminates against refugees by effectively setting up a two-tier system for permanent residents. The way the Conservatives decided to target refugees in this unreasonable and punitive manner is simply un-Canadian.
Canadians welcome refugees to our country. The time has come for Canada to start a new chapter on the world stage. It is time to repeal the cessation provisions of C-31. This was a law that the former Conservatives brought in. The NDP voted against Bill C-31, and so did the Liberals.
I have a private member's bill to repeal the cessation provisions, drafted and all ready to go. Nothing would make me happier than to have the government take my bill and turn it into a government bill.
I urge the government to take immediate action on this urgent situation.
[Expand]
Mr. Arif Virani:
Madam Speaker, our government is very committed to addressing this issue. We are looking at that as part of an overall assessment of the immigration and refugee system in terms of amendments that need to be made to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, speeding up processing time, producing more fairness within the system itself.
Cessation is a problem. Bill C-31 is a problem. I look forward to continuing this discussion with the member for Vancouver East. I look forward to seeing the content of her private member's bill.
Nothing but the truth spoken @ There are laws that are fair and just, and there are laws that are not.
The cessation provisions contained in Bill C-31 is an example of an unjust and absurd law. This law discriminates against refugees by effectively setting up a two-tier system for permanent residents. The way the Conservatives decided to target refugees in this unreasonable and punitive manner is simply un-Canadian.

The conservatives that voted for this bill are inhumane and the minister deceived the house into voting this bill. He lied that it was to target refugees who return immediately and clamp down on fraud but instead they are coming after PR holders...
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
sopranotb said:
. . . please comment on the above discussion at the parliament.. How good you see this?.
Much of the content in this those participating in this discussion already know.

It is of course a good sign when issues make it into the discussion at this level. The overtures from the Liberals have been encouraging.

That said, this Liberal government has huge, huge tasks looming over its head. There is so much to be fixed, so much was done by the Conservatives. It is still very much an open question how much of what needs fixing, let alone improving, the Liberals will actually be able to get done.

Today's chaos in the House of Commons reveals how obstructionist the Conservatives will be and the extent to which the NDP (to my great disappointment) are aiding and abetting. The so-called outrage over the Liberals closing debate on the assisted-death legislation (Bill C-14) is really rich, given that it was the Conservative government given a mandate by the Supreme Court to pass this legislation but did nothing toward getting it done, eventually leaving it to the newly elected Liberal government to, first, beg the Supreme Court for an extension, and otherwise to get it done in way, way, way less time than the Conservatives had . . . while, in contrast, during the previous four years the Conservative majority shut down debate to push legislation again and again, most of it with no Charter Right mandate deadline looming, but just to push their ideological agenda through without having to even listen to opposing opinions.

I wish Justin Trudeau had not succumbed to the intimidation and provocation, but I fully understand the underlying frustrations building.

This is going to get worse before it gets better, if it ever gets better. Hard to forecast, but there are ominous signs for the last stages of getting legislation through, like getting the amendments to the Citizenship Act through.

And again, there is so much to get done. And there are Trudeau's pet projects too, like legalization of marijuana.

For now, the best hope PR-refugees have is that this government exercises its discretion so as to cease pursuing these cases, at least any new one . . . but for those cases already in process, commenced while Minister Alexander held the reins at CIC, not sure whether there is much discretion to back out of those.
 

sopranotb

Star Member
Jul 18, 2015
96
15
I just found on federal court of appeal website that Minister discontinued his appeal for Esfand case.... great news.. yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy :) :) :)
 

frankwhyte22

Full Member
May 1, 2016
38
3
sopranotb said:
I just found on federal court of appeal website that Minister discontinued his appeal for Esfand case.... great news.. yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy :) :) :)
This is good and expected news. These stupid cases is a waste of tax payers money, going after PR holders when plenty of resources is needed to unite families and speed applications.

I want to assume that the current minister will not be signing off on any these stupid ceasation case meant to hurt PR holders pending when the law is amended.
 

YoyoTofi

Star Member
Apr 7, 2014
73
10
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Hello Gentlemen,

I entered Canada as a refugee and now I'm holding a PR status.

My question is, Can I have my back home passport with me and use it when I travel or should I obtain a travel document for refugees?

CIC calling center told me its OK to use my national passport but I don't trust them as I heard stories that CBSA officer might report you to Immigration and IRB if he found that you used your original passport,

I'm really confused and scared of losing my PR so can someone advise please?
 

frankwhyte22

Full Member
May 1, 2016
38
3
YoyoTofi said:
Hello Gentlemen,

I entered Canada as a refugee and now I'm holding a PR status.

My question is, Can I have my back home passport with me and use it when I travel or should I obtain a travel document for refugees?

CIC calling center told me its OK to use my national passport but I don't trust them as I heard stories that CBSA officer might report you to Immigration and IRB if he found that you used your original passport,

I'm really confused and scared of losing my PR so can someone advise please?
Apply for travel document and never use your home passport till you become a citizen. The CIC told me the same but from some of cases..CIC went after people who used their home passport even thought they never returned to their home country.

Be prapared to be detained and harrassed at borders with the travel document...most custom officers dont know what it is. Airline workers too will question and detain you..making calls to their managers to see if you can fly on their airline.

The travel document also doesnt protect you ..you are on your own overseas as clearly stated on the travel document
 

sopranotb

Star Member
Jul 18, 2015
96
15
It would be good if you also tell him that we now have a passionate government that care about good people who are here for the development of this country in safe and peaceful ways..
 

links18

Champion Member
Feb 1, 2006
2,009
129
sopranotb said:
It would be good if you also tell him that we now have a passionate government that care about good people who are here for the development of this country in safe and peaceful ways..
We'll see. They will deport someone eventually....
 

Cappuccino

VIP Member
Jun 23, 2009
4,594
409
Category........
Visa Office......
London
NOC Code......
3131
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
30-Aug-2010
AOR Received.
15-Dec-2010
IELTS Request
Sent with app - 8.5 band score
Med's Request
13-Apr-2011
Med's Done....
19-Apr-2011
Passport Req..
28-June-2011
VISA ISSUED...
21-July-2011
LANDED..........
27-Aug-2011[br][br]ECAS[br]Recd By VO.....: 11-Feb-2011[br]In Process.......: 15-Mar-2011[br]Decision Made.: 25-Jun-2011
Emily12345 said:
Hi I have the same worry.
i sumbit my citizen application on June 3 by Canada post.the cic received it by June 05, since then i didn't hear any respond.I didn't receive Aor.
.....
Give 'em chance, mate. They only got your application 5 days ago.

Ours arrived about 2 weeks after CIC received our application. Although occasionally people get within a few days on the spreadsheet, MOST people if you look get theirs in a few weeks, rather than days.

I am sure you will hear something soon, but please be patient.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
sopranotb said:
I just found on federal court of appeal website that Minister discontinued his appeal for Esfand case.... great news.. yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy :) :) :)

frankwhyte22 said:
This is good and expected news. These stupid cases is a waste of tax payers money, going after PR holders when plenty of resources is needed to unite families and speed applications.

I want to assume that the current minister will not be signing off on any these stupid ceasation case meant to hurt PR holders pending when the law is amended.
I do not have direct information about this news or the status of the Bahareh Esfand case.

The circumstances under which a case is discontinued can vary considerably and does not necessarily mean that the party withdrawing or discontinuing the appeal concedes either the merits of the other party's case, or the legal principle raised in the appeal.

My best guess is that under Minister McCallum's leadership, and the leadership of PM Trudeau in turn, is that IRCC and CBSA are not likely to aggressively pursue cessation proceedings for those who are otherwise well settled in Canada, perhaps even not much at all against PRs.

BUT, but, there is no guarantee of this. the Esfand case, at least so far as we know at the moment, while perhaps consistent with this, does not overtly support this much.


In contrast, there was the Obaidullah Siddiqui decision not long after the Bermudez decision. See http://canlii.ca/t/grsb2

Appellate Court Justice Donald Rennie (no surprise) wrote this opinion affirming a Federal Court decision upholding the cessation of Siddiqui's protected person status.

It may be worth comparing the certified questions raised in the Siddiqui versus Esfand cases:


In Siddiqui http://canlii.ca/t/grsb2 the certified question was:

[... D]o the same or substantially the same legal considerations, precedents and analysis apply to persons found to be Convention refugees as to persons found to be in need of protection as members of the Country of asylum class?

Federal Court Justice Noël and then Court of Appeal Justice Rennie agreed: yes. And thus Siddiqui's trips to Afghanistan supported the cessation of protected status and loss of PR status.

In contrast, the certified question in the Bahareh Esfand case http://canlii.ca/t/glrm0 was stated, by Justice Locke, as follows:

Where a person has become a permanent resident under a visa application in the overseas Refugee and Humanitarian Resettlement Program by virtue of a member of the person’s family listed in the visa application having been determined to be a Convention refugee (though the person was not themselves assessed as a Convention refugee), is that person a Convention refugee as contemplated in paragraph 95(1)(a) of the IRPA who is subject to cessation of refugee status pursuant to subsection 108(2) of the IRPA?

Justice Locke's decision said NO, the family member who becomes a PR per accompanying the Refugee is not a person subject to cessation of status. Thus, in this case the RPD's decision that Esfand's status was NOT subject to cessation was upheld.

The fact that the government has withdrawn the appeal of this decision could be due to Esfand conceding rather than the government conceding (it is actually quite common for the winning party below to concede in an appeal, depending of course on many factors). While it is more likely the government conceded, even if it was the government conceding, that could be based on the particular facts of the Esfand case as much as it is about the certified question itself. And even if it is an overt concession that Justice Locke's decision on this issue is correct, that does not say much at all, if anything, about how the government is approaching the cessation issue relative to those with Refugee or Protected Person status.

Remember, ultimately the Esfand decision was that Esfand was not a person with Refugee or Protected Person status, and thus there was no Refugee status to be the subject of cessation. Obviously this says nothing about how the government approaches those who do have status and for whom the current law prescribes cessation of status if the person has re-availed himself or herself of the home country's protection.


Take away: continue to be cautious.

Again, my sense is that this government is probably taking, at the least, a more flexible, generous approach regarding PRs with Refugee status. BUT there is no guarantee of this. Moreover, in particular, the law remains in place to take away the PR status of a person with Refugee or Protected Person status and this can happen due to obtaining a passport from the home country, and in particular if the person obtains a home country passport and uses it to travel to the home country.

In other words: still be careful. Be prudent.
 

YoyoTofi

Star Member
Apr 7, 2014
73
10
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
frankwhyte22 said:
Apply for travel document and never use your home passport till you become a citizen. The CIC told me the same but from some of cases..CIC went after people who used their home passport even thought they never returned to their home country.

Be prapared to be detained and harrassed at borders with the travel document...most custom officers dont know what it is. Airline workers too will question and detain you..making calls to their managers to see if you can fly on their airline.

The travel document also doesnt protect you ..you are on your own overseas as clearly stated on the travel document



Many thanks frankwhyte22 :)

Does you or any one had a difficulty applying for US visa on the travel document?
 

sopranotb

Star Member
Jul 18, 2015
96
15
dpenabill said:
I do not have direct information about this news or the status of the Bahareh Esfand case.

The circumstances under which a case is discontinued can vary considerably and does not necessarily mean that the party withdrawing or discontinuing the appeal concedes either the merits of the other party's case, or the legal principle raised in the appeal.

My best guess is that under Minister McCallum's leadership, and the leadership of PM Trudeau in turn, is that IRCC and CBSA are not likely to aggressively pursue cessation proceedings for those who are otherwise well settled in Canada, perhaps even not much at all against PRs.

BUT, but, there is no guarantee of this. the Esfand case, at least so far as we know at the moment, while perhaps consistent with this, does not overtly support this much.


In contrast, there was the Obaidullah Siddiqui decision not long after the Bermudez decision. See http://canlii.ca/t/grsb2

Appellate Court Justice Donald Rennie (no surprise) wrote this opinion affirming a Federal Court decision upholding the cessation of Siddiqui's protected person status.

It may be worth comparing the certified questions raised in the Siddiqui versus Esfand cases:


In Siddiqui http://canlii.ca/t/grsb2 the certified question was:

[... D]o the same or substantially the same legal considerations, precedents and analysis apply to persons found to be Convention refugees as to persons found to be in need of protection as members of the Country of asylum class?

Federal Court Justice Noël and then Court of Appeal Justice Rennie agreed: yes. And thus Siddiqui's trips to Afghanistan supported the cessation of protected status and loss of PR status.

In contrast, the certified question in the Bahareh Esfand case http://canlii.ca/t/glrm0 was stated, by Justice Locke, as follows:

Where a person has become a permanent resident under a visa application in the overseas Refugee and Humanitarian Resettlement Program by virtue of a member of the person’s family listed in the visa application having been determined to be a Convention refugee (though the person was not themselves assessed as a Convention refugee), is that person a Convention refugee as contemplated in paragraph 95(1)(a) of the IRPA who is subject to cessation of refugee status pursuant to subsection 108(2) of the IRPA?

Justice Locke's decision said NO, the family member who becomes a PR per accompanying the Refugee is not a person subject to cessation of status. Thus, in this case the RPD's decision that Esfand's status was NOT subject to cessation was upheld.

The fact that the government has withdrawn the appeal of this decision could be due to Esfand conceding rather than the government conceding (it is actually quite common for the winning party below to concede in an appeal, depending of course on many factors). While it is more likely the government conceded, even if it was the government conceding, that could be based on the particular facts of the Esfand case as much as it is about the certified question itself. And even if it is an overt concession that Justice Locke's decision on this issue is correct, that does not say much at all, if anything, about how the government is approaching the cessation issue relative to those with Refugee or Protected Person status.

Remember, ultimately the Esfand decision was that Esfand was not a person with Refugee or Protected Person status, and thus there was no Refugee status to be the subject of cessation. Obviously this says nothing about how the government approaches those who do have status and for whom the current law prescribes cessation of status if the person has re-availed himself or herself of the home country's protection.


Take away: continue to be cautious.

Again, my sense is that this government is probably taking, at the least, a more flexible, generous approach regarding PRs with Refugee status. BUT there is no guarantee of this. Moreover, in particular, the law remains in place to take away the PR status of a person with Refugee or Protected Person status and this can happen due to obtaining a passport from the home country, and in particular if the person obtains a home country passport and uses it to travel to the home country.

In other words: still be careful. Be prudent.
All cessation cases at the federal court of appeal have been discontinued by the government:

Minister discontinued against Gezik on 5 May 2016.

Minister discontinued against Esfand on 1 June 2016.

This does not leave any other cessation case continuing for appeal by government at federal court of appeal..

dpenabill what you think now? Are you still on the fence?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
sopranotb said:
All cessation cases at the federal court of appeal have been discontinued by the government:

Minister discontinued against Gezik on 5 May 2016.

Minister discontinued against Esfand on 1 June 2016.

This does not leave any other cessation case continuing for appeal by government at federal court of appeal..

dpenabill what you think now? Are you still on the fence?
I have not seen any new sign that the Liberals will adopt legislation to remove the statutory provisions mandating cessation of status resulting in loss of PR status (not just protected person status). Absent that, the law continues to put refugees or protected persons at risk of losing PR status if they obtain their home country passport, and more so if they also travel to their home country.

I have not really been on the fence about this. There are aspects that are not known. Mainly we do not know what the current government's approach to cessation is, to what extent the government is examining or investigating indications of re-availment, or pursuing cessation if such indications are identified. Not knowing the government's position, in conjuction with the law still being what it is, the prudent thing is to avoid being in circumstances which could support a cessation proceeding.



Explanatory Observations:

I am not familiar with Gezik. Will attempt to look it up when I have some time.

As I noted before, the certified question in Esfand was narrowly drawn and really was more about whether a family member, rather than the person who had protected person status, could be subject to cessation. While the outcome of that case, being withdrawn, is consistent with IRCC and CBSA taking a less severe approach to applying the cessation provisions, it does not necessarily signal to what extent.

In particular, it does not signal that those PRs with refugee status, who apply for citizenship, will not be subject to cessation proceedings if they have obtained their home country passport and traveled to their home country.

Reminder, in late April the Court of Appeal decision in the Obaidullah Siddiqui case affirmed the cessation of PR status. See http://canlii.ca/t/grsb2

Again, I would not describe my view as on the fence. My view is that the scope of the government's enforcement and application of the cessation provisions is currently unknown, with some indications that IRCC and CBSA are not pursuing these cases as aggressively as when Alexander was the Minister of CIC, but that is not an indication the government is not or will not pursue cessation proceedings.

Without knowing how aggressively the government is currently applying the current law (with no proposal to change the current law so far as I have seen), I am not on the fence at all: the prudent course of action continues to favour being caution; thus, the prudent thing would be to not obtain a home country passport and not travel home, until Canadian citizenship is obtained. For those who already did obtain a home country passport, and especially those who also traveled home, avoiding any more travel using the passport seems the prudent thing to do. Until something more definitive happens.