Ray of hope - FSW - 1

[hydrizxcv]

My friend has 467 and he has given up. I told him to learn French but he said it requires a very high level of commitment and he doesn't have the time for it.

My question is how much effort do you have to put every day to get the bare minimum TEF score that will increase his CRS score to a safe score?

 

[guelphite]

My friend has 467 and he has given up. I told him to learn French but he said it requires a very high level of commitment and he doesn't have the time for it.

My question is how much effort do you have to put every day to get the bare minimum TEF score that will increase his CRS score to a safe score?

"Safe" is subjective (see my argument with @jrossi above ha). I'm on the optimistic side and am pretty confident that Canada will reopen FSW draws, just because meeting their immigration goals seems like a govt priority for economic reasons and there is no way to do so right now without FSW...

I think with a 475 you will get drawn at some point in 2021, I think 90% chance or higher. Maybe 50% chance for 472. These are my guesses, I think @jrossi might be less optimistic.

Getting to B1 will get your friend 4-10 points depending on how he scores on the 4 parts of the test, but realistically 4-8 points (4 pts if B1 across the board, 8 if B1 for speaking and writing but B2 for reading and listening).
Getting to B2 gets 12 points and unlocks a 50 point bonus. He'd be truly safe there.

US state department estimates 600-750 class hours for an average language learner who knows English to get to the B2 level in French from nothing. But this requires several hundred hours on the side (watching shows, reading news, etc.). 800-1000 total hours is probably more realistic for most people when you add in the work on the side. https://www.state.gov/foreign-language-training. Getting to B1 is easier, maybe half of that time. Call it 400-500 hours.

It took me 9 months to go from B1 to B2 in French doing 8-10 hours a week. I'm sure it is possible to do it faster.

 

[hydrizxcv]

"Safe" is subjective (see my argument with @jrossi above ha). I'm on the optimistic side and am pretty confident that Canada will reopen FSW draws, just because meeting their immigration goals seems like a govt priority for economic reasons and there is no way to do so right now without FSW...

I think with a 475 you will get drawn at some point in 2021, I think 90% chance or higher. Maybe 50% chance for 472. These are my guesses, I think @jrossi might be less optimistic.

Getting to B1 will get your friend 4-10 points depending on how he scores on the 4 parts of the test, but realistically 4-8 points (4 pts if B1 across the board, 8 if B1 for speaking and writing but B2 for reading and listening).
Getting to B2 gets 12 points and unlocks a 50 point bonus. He'd be truly safe there.

US state department estimates 600-750 class hours for an average language learner who knows English to get to the B2 level in French from nothing. But this requires several hundred hours on the side (watching shows, reading news, etc.). 800-1000 total hours is probably more realistic for most people when you add in the work on the side. https://www.state.gov/foreign-language-training. Getting to B1 is easier, maybe half of that time. Call it 400-500 hours.

It took me 9 months to go from B1 to B2 in French doing 8-10 hours a week. I'm sure it is possible to do it faster.

- It's not for me. I already have an ITA. It's for my friend who has 467.
- "9 months to go from B1 to B2 in French doing 8-10 hours a week." Sounds doable
- How many points does TEF B1 add? and B2? Where can I find more information about this?

 

[guelphite]

See "Official languages proficiency - second official language" section in the link below. Also, you get a 50 point bonus if you are at B2 in all four parts of the test.

B1: 4-10 points
B2: 62+ points (includes 50 point bonus)

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/eligibility/criteria-comprehensive-ranking-system/grid.html

 

[hydrizxcv]

See "Official languages proficiency - second official language" section in the link below. Also, you get a 50 point bonus if you are at B2 in all four parts of the test.

B1: 4-10 points
B2: 62+ points (includes 50 point bonus)

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/eligibility/criteria-comprehensive-ranking-system/grid.html

B1 gets you 4-10 points? I think that's sufficient for him since he's at 467. Do you have an idea how long it takes for him to get to a B1 level assuming he puts in 8-10 hours a week?

 

[Igethope]

If you are good with cramming , get all the TEF reading and listening questions. I think they have over 100 tests now. Unlike before that they are were less than 30. Practice, cram if you have to, you can get C1.

 

[jrossi]

My friend has 467 and he has given up. I told him to learn French but he said it requires a very high level of commitment and he doesn't have the time for it.

My question is how much effort do you have to put every day to get the bare minimum TEF score that will increase his CRS score to a safe score?

I went from A1 to B2/C1 (3 CLB8 and 1 CLB9) in about 6-7 months. But, to my advantage I had the fact that french is quite similar to portuguese (my native language), and the vast majority of words that weren't similar to portuguese, were similar to english.
So, if your native language is portuguese/spanish/italian, I believe learning French is relatively easy.

 

[jrossi]

If you are good with cramming , get all the TEF reading and listening questions. I think they have over 100 tests now. Unlike before that they are were less than 30. Practice, cram if you have to, you can get C1.

I also support that idea.
I attempt TCF twice, the first time in March/2020 (just 2 months after I started my french studies) and then on August/2020. On the first atempt I focused 100% on the reading/listening sections, I didn't even tried the Writing (literally left the 3 essays blank) and said "Je ne voudrais pas faire cette partie d'examen" during the speaking section. Since I focused entirely on the speaking/listening, I was able to get 2 solid B2 (CLB8), and got 6 extra points, with just 2 months of studies.
If anyone is in need of just 2-6 points, my advice is to forget entirely the speaking/writing sections, and focus entirely on the reading/listening.

 

[Adam Tsao]

looks like gov of Canada is considering a tougher restriction on travelling due to new variants from UK and South Africa,.....looks familiar? looks like everything starts all over again just like last year...
have no idea when the pandemic will be over

 

[wildwind123]

looks like gov of Canada is considering a tougher restriction on travelling due to new variants from UK and South Africa,.....looks familiar? looks like everything starts all over again just like last year...
have no idea when the pandemic will be over

No end in sight... sigh...

 

[maxpeyn2000]

I also support that idea.
I attempt TCF twice, the first time in March/2020 (just 2 months after I started my french studies) and then on August/2020. On the first atempt I focused 100% on the reading/listening sections, I didn't even tried the Writing (literally left the 3 essays blank) and said "Je ne voudrais pas faire cette partie d'examen" during the speaking section. Since I focused entirely on the speaking/listening, I was able to get 2 solid B2 (CLB8), and got 6 extra points, with just 2 months of studies.
If anyone is in need of just 2-6 points, my advice is to forget entirely the speaking/writing sections, and focus entirely on the reading/listening.

Hey.
I am waiting at 467 too. My birthday is in June and I almost lost my hope for EE. Simultaneously, I applied for 5 master programs for September 2021, and I wish they won't be online. Do you think it is worth starting French now, or just wait for the university admission and move there with a student visa?

 

[guelphite]

Hey.
I am waiting at 467 too. My birthday is in June and I almost lost my hope for EE. Simultaneously, I applied for 5 master programs for September 2021, and I wish they won't be online. Do you think it is worth starting French now, or just wait for the university admission and move there with a student visa?

Do you already have a masters? DM me if you want.

 

[jrossi]

Hey.
I am waiting at 467 too. My birthday is in June and I almost lost my hope for EE. Simultaneously, I applied for 5 master programs for September 2021, and I wish they won't be online. Do you think it is worth starting French now, or just wait for the university admission and move there with a student visa?

Each person has its own plan, but I'm totally opposed to the idea of paying the absurd tuitions that Canada charges for international students.
Learning a new language is pretty much free, and just SOOOO much faster (and cheaper) than doing a 2-3 yr college program + PGWP + EE.

 

[ns317]

Each person has its own plan, but I'm totally opposed to the idea of paying the absurd tuitions that Canada charges for international students.
Learning a new language is pretty much free, and just SOOOO much faster (and cheaper) than doing a 2-3 yr college program + PGWP + EE.

One year masters in Quebec. Costs anywhere between 10K to 30K CAD for international students. More points due to Canadian masters' + the opportunity to improve your spoken French by immersing yourself in a francophone culture. I think that's a good deal for most people. PGWP duration is immaterial if they can apply via FSW immediately after completing the masters.

 

[jrossi]

One year masters in Quebec. Costs anywhere between 10K to 30K CAD for international students. More points due to Canadian masters' + the opportunity to improve your spoken French by immersing yourself in a francophone culture. I think that's a good deal for most people. PGWP duration is immaterial if they can apply via FSW immediately after completing the masters.

Well, I've never lived outside of my home country, so everything that I say here will be based on feedback that I get from friends and people that I follow. Basically, I do think that people overvalue the concept of learning a language faster because they're "immersed" in another country. I personally don't believe on this.
Once you land in Québec, you'll have plenty of things to worry about... normal life stuff... paying bills, doing groceries, learning how to move around the city, job search, etc and specially, spending a lot of time in your masters program. In the end, I honestly don't believe you'll be able to find time to study as much french as you would if you really put a lot of effort on learning it now, in your home country, without the stresses of attending classes, doing assignments, taking twice the time to do groceries, building network to get a job, dealing with winter mess, and so on.
Again, just my opinion: I don't think we learn by "immersion". We learn by studying and practicing it. But if we have less time to actually sit, open a book and study the language, immersion is just useless, because you won't magically understand what people is saying.
I did "immersed" byself while I was studying french in Brazil. All my devices were set to French, even my TV operating system. The homepage of my browser became RadioCanada, I did my commute listening to french podcast and watching youtube videos in french, I did iTalki conversation classes almost daily, and so on...

Not trying to convince you otherwise. If you feel the master is the right choice, go for it. But, if I were in your place, I would save that 30k CAD, because in the end I believe you'll get PR faster (and cheaper) by learning french right now.