Question for POSTDOCS who have applied for EE

[SatThak]

I have a question for postdocs who have already got PR under EE or have application in process. Does the immigration pay emphasis on the term "stipend" when looking at your contract letter or offer letter from the university/professor? I have a situation where I had applied for AINP under Post graduate strategic recruitment stream before I got an invitation to apply for EE. Yesterday I got this email from the AINP office:
Your position at the University of Calgary is not considered employment because, as specified in
your contract, you are working under a fellowship agreement rather than as an employee. You
receive a stipend rather than a salary and have no deductions for Canada Pension Plan or
Employment Insurance. The AINP does not consider you to be in an employer/employee
relationship and you do not meet AINP employment criteria.
Your application has therefore been declined.

Although it does not make any sense to me but it has left me worried now if CIC will also raise this issue of "stipend vs salary". Has anybody else faced similar issue? Postdocs who have already got their PR did you have any issue with this?? I guess the universities all over Canada use similar language (stipend/fellowship rather than salary) when issuing appointment letters to Postdocs.

 

[Martin_Tony]

I have a question for postdocs who have already got PR under EE or have application in process. Does the immigration pay emphasis on the term "stipend" when looking at your contract letter or offer letter from the university/professor? I have a situation where I had applied for AINP under Post graduate strategic recruitment stream before I got an invitation to apply for EE. Yesterday I got this email from the AINP office:
Your position at the University of Calgary is not considered employment because, as specified in
your contract, you are working under a fellowship agreement rather than as an employee. You
receive a stipend rather than a salary and have no deductions for Canada Pension Plan or
Employment Insurance. The AINP does not consider you to be in an employer/employee
relationship and you do not meet AINP employment criteria.
Your application has therefore been declined.

Although it does not make any sense to me but it has left me worried now if CIC will also raise this issue of "stipend vs salary". Has anybody else faced similar issue? Postdocs who have already got their PR did you have any issue with this?? I guess the universities all over Canada use similar language (stipend/fellowship rather than salary) when issuing appointment letters to Postdocs.

Hi, my offer letter uses salary at UofT

 

[Martin_Tony]

I have a question for postdocs who have already got PR under EE or have application in process. Does the immigration pay emphasis on the term "stipend" when looking at your contract letter or offer letter from the university/professor? I have a situation where I had applied for AINP under Post graduate strategic recruitment stream before I got an invitation to apply for EE. Yesterday I got this email from the AINP office:
Your position at the University of Calgary is not considered employment because, as specified in
your contract, you are working under a fellowship agreement rather than as an employee. You
receive a stipend rather than a salary and have no deductions for Canada Pension Plan or
Employment Insurance. The AINP does not consider you to be in an employer/employee
relationship and you do not meet AINP employment criteria.
Your application has therefore been declined.

Although it does not make any sense to me but it has left me worried now if CIC will also raise this issue of "stipend vs salary". Has anybody else faced similar issue? Postdocs who have already got their PR did you have any issue with this?? I guess the universities all over Canada use similar language (stipend/fellowship rather than salary) when issuing appointment letters to Postdocs.

And I have deduction for tax, CPP and EI. Do you have all of them?

 

[SatThak]

It is stipend for us at UofC. No we don't have any deductions for CPP or EI.

 

[pfse]

I have a question for postdocs who have already got PR under EE or have application in process. Does the immigration pay emphasis on the term "stipend" when looking at your contract letter or offer letter from the university/professor? I have a situation where I had applied for AINP under Post graduate strategic recruitment stream before I got an invitation to apply for EE. Yesterday I got this email from the AINP office:
Your position at the University of Calgary is not considered employment because, as specified in
your contract, you are working under a fellowship agreement rather than as an employee. You
receive a stipend rather than a salary and have no deductions for Canada Pension Plan or
Employment Insurance. The AINP does not consider you to be in an employer/employee
relationship and you do not meet AINP employment criteria.
Your application has therefore been declined.

Although it does not make any sense to me but it has left me worried now if CIC will also raise this issue of "stipend vs salary". Has anybody else faced similar issue? Postdocs who have already got their PR did you have any issue with this?? I guess the universities all over Canada use similar language (stipend/fellowship rather than salary) when issuing appointment letters to Postdocs.

There was always inconsistency in how CIC is threating postdocs. The decision is on actual VO officer. I know people with words "stipend' in the reference letter who got PR (including me), but other refused. Some ppl refused for having T4A instead of T4, other - because of mismatch with NOC code. Basically the problems with postdocs are that there is no dedicated NOC for postdocs and no clear proof for employer/employee relationship (except UofT), so each VO officer may consider it differently.

 

[SatThak]

That's exactly the case. I know ppl from my own university who have exactly same wording on their letters and have got PR. The question is do Provincial officers have different rule book to evaluate employment than the Federal ones?

 

[pfse]

That's exactly the case. I know ppl from my own university who have exactly same wording on their letters and have got PR. The question is do Provincial officers have different rule book to evaluate employment than the Federal ones?

I don't think there is any clear rules for determination of employer/employee relationship for either province or federal authorities. At least for CIC there are some guidlines on how to derminate the status based on combination of factors but different officers may give different weight for these factors. I guess there is something similar for provinces.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/perm/econ/cec/work.asp

 

[SatThak]

YES there seem to be some method for the federal officers but I dont know what on earth went through the provincial officer's mind who assessed my file for nomination. Hope my EE application does not suffer on these grounds.

 

[vsoftco]

YES there seem to be some method for the federal officers but I dont know what on earth went through the provincial officer's mind who assessed my file for nomination. Hope my EE application does not suffer on these grounds.

Just make sure you get your employment letter from your supervisor (Prof.), and that letter should mention "working full time/35h per week with a SALARY of" + duties and responsibilities, as well as the starting date and ending date of your contract. I was in the same situation and got my PR without any issues. The supervisor can write "salary" without any problem, so ask her/him to do this. Don't rely on the HR, as at UofC they treat postdocs as "fellows", although you pay taxes, but on a T4A. There shouldn't be any issues, the IRCC is aware of this situation. Even if your current letter mentioned STIPEND, you should be fine, as IRCC knows the issue.

One more very important thing: make sure your duties and responsibilities match the NOC. For example, in my case, the NOC for postdocs didn't really match my duties, as I was doing mostly research (not teaching), so I applied under the NOC that matched the best (i.e. 2111). If your duties match 4011 better, stay with it, otherwise you can send a letter of explanation with an updated letter in which you can clarify why you chose 4011 over your specialization. The postdoc issue is a SUPER-CONFUSING problem, and IRCC should clarify it once and forever.

 

[Martin_Tony]

Just make sure you get your employment letter from your supervisor (Prof.), and that letter should mention "working full time/35h per week with a SALARY of" + duties and responsibilities, as well as the starting date and ending date of your contract. I was in the same situation and got my PR without any issues. The supervisor can write "salary" without any problem, so ask her/him to do this. Don't rely on the HR, as at UofC they treat postdocs as "fellows", although you pay taxes, but on a T4A. There shouldn't be any issues, the IRCC is aware of this situation. Even if your current letter mentioned STIPEND, you should be fine, as IRCC knows the issue.

One more very important thing: make sure your duties and responsibilities match the NOC. For example, in my case, the NOC for postdocs didn't really match my duties, as I was doing mostly research (not teaching), so I applied under the NOC that matched the best (i.e. 2111). If your duties match 4011 better, stay with it, otherwise you can send a letter of explanation with an updated letter in which you can clarify why you chose 4011 over your specialization. The postdoc issue is a SUPER-CONFUSING problem, and IRCC should clarify it once and forever.

I applied the work permit with NOC 4011, so when I apply for EE, do I still need to stick to 4011 or can I change it to a more related NOC as you did? Thanks

 

[pillow]

I applied under NOC 4012 - Post-secondary research assistant and 6 months of my work experience was under Post-doc fellow (NOC 4011). In my employment letter, the word stipend was used and I provided letters from both HR and Prof. I also provided T4A as a proof of getting paid. Got my PR without any question on employment history. I think as long as the job description matches with your NOC and you have proof that you get paid (T4 or T4A), you should be okay.

 

[SatThak]

Thanks for the input guys. I have applied under 4011 and the responsibilities do match the NOC code. Hopefully everything goes smoothly. Just wonder what the provincial guys were thinking :

 

[Water_a]

I talked to an AINP representative today. She suggests me to give a try as I have two years contract as a postdoc. What was the contract period for you? I can't waste my time just to give a try...Thanks

 

[Janaki Iyer]

Hi fellow postdocs,

I am currently working as a postdoctoral fellow and I will be completing 1 year work exp in Canada in January 2017 (I have CPP and EI deductions). So I will be eligible to enter the EE pool soon after that. My original contract was until December 2017. After the changes in the CRS system, I spoke to my boss and she has agreed to give me an offer letter until December 2021. However my salary comes from research funds and my supervisor does not know the funding scenario in advance. So the offer letter states that this contract is subject to availability of funding and satisfactory performance. Will this be considered a valid job offer by CIC? Can I claim 50 points based on this offer letter?

Thanks
Janaki

 

[mumbaikar]

Hi guys,

I am a postdoc with 1.5 years of experience and I got my PhD from Canada [Got my PhD from BC and working in ON now]. Today I made an express entry profile and immediately I got a message that I am ineligible. Wondering why? [I have an IELTS score of 7; Proof of funds (C$):15000; # of family members : 1]. I used the NOC code 2113 (geophysicist). Should I use the code 4011 as I am also a sessional lecturer at the university? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks