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question about "intent to reside" in c-24

mra123

Member
Apr 29, 2015
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Who will the "intent to reside" component of c-24 pertain to? People who submit their applications after the law comes in to force? People who submitted their application prior to the law coming in to force, but who take the oath after? Anyone who has taken the oath in the last X number of years? Anyone who has ever taken the oath?

Another way of asking this question: After C-24 comes in to force, will the citizenship application itself be modified to include a new section/questions/etc., regarding intent to reside? It seems like that would be the most workable from CIC's perspective, but not-so-nice for everyone applying.
 

wd1

Star Member
Mar 11, 2015
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I would assume to everyone who granted his citizenship since long, long, long,long, long time ago.
 

Lux et Veritas

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Apr 25, 2015
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mra123 said:
Who will the "intent to reside" component of c-24 pertain to? People who submit their applications after the law comes in to force? People who submitted their application prior to the law coming in to force, but who take the oath after? Anyone who has taken the oath in the last X number of years? Anyone who has ever taken the oath?

Another way of asking this question: After C-24 comes in to force, will the citizenship application itself be modified to include a new section/questions/etc., regarding intent to reside? It seems like that would be the most workable from CIC's perspective, but not-so-nice for everyone applying.
This will apply to people who submit their application after the law comes into effect, and yes there will be a question in the revised application form.
 

neutral

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Intention is something subjective, can't be measured, at least you say during the interview that you plan to leave Canada, so this is just something to scare people, but legally, doesn't have implications.

It's like for us, who come to Quebec, we signed a letter that we intend to live in Quebec. Once you landed and are a Permanent Resident, the Canadian law has prevalence and says that every resident can live wherever he wants in Canada, so the intention is just in theory.
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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The revised requirements for grant citizenship require a PR to have the intent to continue to reside in Canada upon becoming a Canadian citizen.

Note, it is a requirement for a PR, for a Permanent Resident. This provision has no impact, none whatsoever, on anyone other than a PR applying for citizenship.

Thus there is NO impact on any citizen, regardless of when or how that person became a citizen.

No hint of any required residence in Canada after becoming a citizen (and if the provision did impose such a requirement it would violate the Charter, be invalid, and not enforceable).

Thus, again, this provision will have NO impact on anyone who is a citizen, regardless of whether they applied for citizenship before or after the revised requirements are in effect.


This requirement, however, is important and far-reaching.


It imposes a presumptive requirement that the applicant continue to reside in Canada while the application is in process . . . it does not absolutely disqualify an applicant who is residing or working abroad while the application is pending (given the upon becoming a Canadian citizen element), but it gives CIC and/or a CJ open discretion to reject an applicant who is residing or working abroad while the application is pending, since it is readily presumed that generally a person cannot intend to continue doing something he is not currently doing, so an applicant cannot intend to continue residing in Canada if he is not currently residing in Canada. (This is perhaps the main reason the Tories included this requirement, to definitively put an end to applicants-applying-on-the-way-to-the-airport.)

It greatly expands the scope of what is relevant for CIC to consider in assessing the applicant's qualifications, and in doing this broadens the range of facts and circumstances which are material. Far more than merely direct evidence of presence or absence from Canada becomes material information, and thus must be reported if requested. Omissions, as much as overt misrepresentations, will be grounds to deny the application or, later, could be the basis for criminal charges (thus potentially imprisonment), and could forever be grounds for revoking citizenship. This would be based on making a material misrepresentation (such as the RQ'd applicant failing to disclose an interest in property or a business abroad, failing to disclose an agreement to work abroad entered into while the application is pending, failing to disclose living abroad after applying, and so on . . . all fairly obvious stuff).

Beyond keeping applicants in Canada while the application is pending, the biggest impact will be on applicants issued RQ. The scope of RQ is likely to be greatly expanded, and the implications for failing to disclose information are for sure more important.

By the way: issues of intent are common in the law. There is an expansive body of law which governs evidence of intent and inferences related to intent. There is nothing particularly new or radical about imposing an intent element. The U.S. does even in its requirements to maintain Green Card status, let alone for becoming a U.S. citizen. The requirement does not open the door to conjecture or speculation. But as is common throughout decision-making processes governed by the rule of law, which of course Canada's naturalization process is, there are standards governing the range of inferences which can be made based on facts . . . thus, reasonable inferences based on facts can be (and undoubtedly will be) relevant to the decision-making in grant citizenship application decisions.
 

ericou

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Jun 3, 2015
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This "intent to reside in Canada" rule does not mean anything since a Canadian citizen's right of freedom to reside is protected by the law. Once you become a citizen, you can choose anywhere to live once you get permit from other countries.

CIC should remove this provision as it just wasts everybody's time.
 

Bigudi

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neutral said:
Intention is something subjective, can't be measured, at least you say during the interview that you plan to live Canada, so this is just something to scare people, but legally, doesn't have implications.

It's like for us, who come to Quebec, we signed a letter that we intend to live in Quebec. Once you landed and are a Permanent Resident, the Canadian law has prevalence and says that every resident can live wherever he wants in Canada, so the intention is just in theory.
Precisely. Not to mention the fact that you can only answer for your present intentions. One's intentions today might not be the one's intentions tomorrow... or after the oath for that matter. Imagine you are in court because you left Canada end the judge tells you:
- But you signed an statement of intent to live in Canada. Why?
- Because at that moment I did intent to live in Canada.

Nobody is lying.
 

mra123

Member
Apr 29, 2015
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So, depenabill, to be clear, in your estimation, is it correct that, if someone takes the oath and receives citizenship BEFORE the so-called "intent to reside" provision comes in to force, that provision cannot be applied to them regarding the time they were a PR and their application was in process? This would make sense I think...
 

wd1

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Mar 11, 2015
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ericou said:
This "intent to reside in Canada" rule does not mean anything since a Canadian citizen's right of freedom to reside is protected by the law. Once you become a citizen, you can choose anywhere to live once you get permit from other countries.

CIC should remove this provision as it just wasts everybody's time.
It's only to turn down < 1095 DAYS AND 48 HOURS TO FREEDOM > applicants. After oath the same charter of rights and freedom applies to everyone, until major amendments to constitution.
 

screech339

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ericou said:
This "intent to reside in Canada" rule does not mean anything since a Canadian citizen's right of freedom to reside is protected by the law. Once you become a citizen, you can choose anywhere to live once you get permit from other countries.

CIC should remove this provision as it just wasts everybody's time.
The intend to resides only applies to time period when CIC receives your application to time you say your oath. Does not apply to period after you acquire your citizenship.

So to say that it is a waste of everyone's time is false. It forces PR to reside in Canada until they get citizenship. It help prevents applicants from applying for citizenship on way to airport.
 

neutral

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Again, it's too difficult to measure our intentions. My mother, it's 30 years since she has intentions of stop smoking....
 

ericou

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Jun 3, 2015
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screech339 said:
The intend to resides only applies to time period when CIC receives your application to time you say your oath. Does not apply to period after you acquire your citizenship.

So to say that it is a waste of everyone's time is false. It forces PR to reside in Canada until they get citizenship. It help prevents applicants from applying for citizenship on way to airport.
It can be explained in this way. But it would be more reasonable to make the requirement of residence to be 4.5 years out of 6, instead of 4 out of 6, if we estimate the processing time of citizenship is 0.5 year.
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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mra123 said:
So, depenabill, to be clear, in your estimation, is it correct that, if someone takes the oath and receives citizenship BEFORE the so-called "intent to reside" provision comes in to force, that provision cannot be applied to them regarding the time they were a PR and their application was in process? This would make sense I think...
The intent to reside provision has NO application to anyone who has taken the oath. It is not about citizens. Does not matter when they took the oath. It does not apply.

The intent to reside provision does not apply to any applicant for citizenship who has an application pending or who submits a complete application before the provision comes into force . . . even if it takes another year plus or more for the application to be processed.

It will only apply to Permanent Residents who submit an application for citizenship after the provision comes into force, and it will only apply to them while the application is pending. Once they take the oath, once citizenship has been granted, the provision will no longer apply to them.



As for knowing a person's intent, the law is full of examples in which decision-makers (judges, juries, bureaucrats) look at the facts and circumstances in a case and decide what a person's intent is or was (oft times disregarding what the individual claims his intent is). This is common. There is a large body of law regarding what is competent evidence of intent and the weight that should be given certain types of evidence and what are reasonable inferences about intent. The applicant who goes to California or Seattle for a high paying IT job while his application for Canadian citizenship is in process can insist all he wants that he intends to continue living in Canada, but CIC is far more likely to make the entirely reasonable inference he does not intend to continue residing in Canada and reject the application. Easy case. No magic, no crystal ball.
 

mra123

Member
Apr 29, 2015
15
1
Thanks to all for your thoughts on this and especially to depenabill for the always insightful and thorough analysis and comments!
 

labeamer

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Jul 30, 2014
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dpenabill said:
The intent to reside provision has NO application to anyone who has taken the oath. It is not about citizens. Does not matter when they took the oath. It does not apply.

The intent to reside provision does not apply to any applicant for citizenship who has an application pending or who submits a complete application before the provision comes into force . . . even if it takes another year plus or more for the application to be processed.

It will only apply to Permanent Residents who submit an application for citizenship after the provision comes into force, and it will only apply to them while the application is pending. Once they take the oath, once citizenship has been granted, the provision will no longer apply to them.



As for knowing a person's intent, the law is full of examples in which decision-makers (judges, juries, bureaucrats) look at the facts and circumstances in a case and decide what a person's intent is or was (oft times disregarding what the individual claims his intent is). This is common. There is a large body of law regarding what is competent evidence of intent and the weight that should be given certain types of evidence and what are reasonable inferences about intent. The applicant who goes to California or Seattle for a high paying IT job while his application for Canadian citizenship is in process can insist all he wants that he intends to continue living in Canada, but CIC is far more likely to make the entirely reasonable inference he does not intend to continue residing in Canada and reject the application. Easy case. No magic, no crystal ball.
dpenabill,

What if the 'intent to reside' requirement is a tool to revoke the citizenship of a naturalized individual for 'misrepresentation?' Suppose you are an 'inconvenience' to the government and a bureaucrat sniffs around your period prior to your oath, particularly after you applied for citizenship, and they find some allegedly material facts (say a job application overseas, overseas business transaction or ownership, etc.). I suspect you may be accused of misrepresenting your intentions to reside in Canada and this may be a ground for revoking your citizenship. With the information sharing mechanism they devised and with the courts out of the picture (Minister revoking citizenship), I suspect the entire citizenship strengthening act has been introduced in bad faith and bad intentions.

I do not personally trust any sitting government. They are politicians and that's what they do for a living. Anyone would do anything to keep and save his or her power/livelihood. So they twist anything to mobilize the mass, they manipulate to stay in power and they feed on popular opinion. They are not expected to be objective nor are they obligated to do the right thing.

So I have a problem the current government is taking the courts out of the equation. It is a slippery slope and history tells us that that's how you make a totalitarian dictator government.