question about "intent to reside" in c-24

[dpenabill]

In 2010 Harper and Kenney announced a crack down on citizenship and immigration fraud, and claimed 4,000 plus individuals were already targeted with their investigation just beginning. Later they announced, I forget whether it was 400 or 600 citizenship cases specifically targeted . . . at least 400.

While it has been three weeks since I added up the numbers, the total number of revoked citizenships since 2010 is well less than a hundred.

Since then, since the crackdown on fraud began in 2010, to date at least 750,000 new citizens have taken the oath.

Compare the numbers: 750,000 to (at max) 100.

There is no massive sweep to revoke citizenship on the horizon, not even by this government.



Intent to reside redux:

The "intent to reside" provision, section 5(1)(c.1))i), states that a Permanent Resident is qualified if, satisfying the other requirements, the applicant is "a permanent resident . . . [who] intends, if granted citizenship, to continue to reside in Canada . . . "

There is nothing vague or ambiguous about this. Section 5(1) applies explicitly to Permanent Residents (NOT citizens) and section 5(1)(c.1)(i) explicitly prescribes the intent an applicant PR must have in order to qualify for a grant of citizenship.

There is no possible interpretation or construction of this provision which would make it applicable to any citizen.

This has been explained in-depth often, including quite recently:

The revised requirements for grant citizenship require a PR to have the intent to continue to reside in Canada upon becoming a Canadian citizen.

Note, it is a requirement for a PR, for a Permanent Resident. This provision has no impact, none whatsoever, on anyone other than a PR applying for citizenship.

Thus there is NO impact on any citizen, regardless of when or how that person became a citizen.

No hint of any required residence in Canada after becoming a citizen (and if the provision did impose such a requirement it would violate the Charter, be invalid, and not enforceable).

Thus, again, this provision will have NO impact on anyone who is a citizen, regardless of whether they applied for citizenship before or after the revised requirements are in effect.


This requirement, however, is important and far-reaching.

The intent to reside provision has NO application to anyone who has taken the oath. It is not about citizens. Does not matter when they took the oath. It does not apply.

The intent to reside provision does not apply to any applicant for citizenship who has an application pending or who submits a complete application before the provision comes into force . . . even if it takes another year plus or more for the application to be processed.

It will only apply to Permanent Residents who submit an application for citizenship after the provision comes into force, and it will only apply to them while the application is pending. Once they take the oath, once citizenship has been granted, the provision will no longer apply to them.

 

[CanadianCountry]

There is nothing stopping this government to process revocation on all 4000 (which law prohibits them??). There non-action in past is in no way a guarantee for non-action in the future.

Maybe they just had their hands full till now, but now since for the next one year there will very few applications coming in, the time is ripe to get these revocations done in time.

In 2010 Harper and Kenney announced a crack down on citizenship and immigration fraud, and claimed 4,000 plus individuals were already targeted with their investigation just beginning. Later they announced, I forget whether it was 400 or 600 citizenship cases specifically targeted . . . at least 400.

While it has been three weeks since I added up the numbers, the total number of revoked citizenships since 2010 is well less than a hundred.

Since then, since the crackdown on fraud began in 2010, to date at least 750,000 new citizens have taken the oath.

Compare the numbers: 750,000 to (at max) 100.

There is no massive sweep to revoke citizenship on the horizon, not even by this government.



Intent to reside redux:

The "intent to reside" provision, section 5(1)(c.1))i), states that a Permanent Resident is qualified if, satisfying the other requirements, the applicant is "a permanent resident . . . [who] intends, if granted citizenship, to continue to reside in Canada . . . "

There is nothing vague or ambiguous about this. Section 5(1) applies explicitly to Permanent Residents (NOT citizens) and section 5(1)(c.1)(i) explicitly prescribes the intent an applicant PR must have in order to qualify for a grant of citizenship.

There is no possible interpretation or construction of this provision which would make it applicable to any citizen.

This has been explained in-depth often, including quite recently:

 

[polara69]

There is nothing stopping this government to process revocation on all 4000 (which law prohibits them??). There non-action in past is in no way a guarantee for non-action in the future.

Maybe they just had their hands full till now, but now since for the next one year there will very few applications coming in, the time is ripe to get these revocations done in time.

Stop being paranoid and making a mountain out of a molehill... unfounded drivel. And if they yank 4000 passport holders that got their citizenship by fraud, good on them. Send them packing!

 

[wd1]

There is nothing stopping this government to process revocation on all 4000 (which law prohibits them??). There non-action in past is in no way a guarantee for non-action in the future.

Maybe they just had their hands full till now, but now since for the next one year there will very few applications coming in, the time is ripe to get these revocations done in time.

Hé là canadiancountry,

Is your name on the list ? Before you answer .... , are you sure ?

 

[CanadianCountry]

They can yank any number of citizenships, who cares. Thats not the point. Point is when people say no revocations will occur, that is a total lie. The number can be big or small, but in time the number of revocations (genuine or non-genuine) is bound to go up.

For you it might be unfounded drivel, but for some its a word of caution. Dont believe the laws are passed with the intent not to enforce them.

Stop being paranoid and making a mountain out of a molehill... unfounded drivel. And if they yank 4000 passport holders that got their citizenship by fraud, good on them. Send them packing!

 

[neutral]

There is nothing stopping this government to process revocation on all 4000 (which law prohibits them??). There non-action in past is in no way a guarantee for non-action in the future.

Yeah, and why just 4000? Why not 10 million?

 

[CanadianCountry]

You are funny. And no its not on the list.

Hé là canadiancountry,

Is your name on the list ? Before you answer .... , are you sure ?

 

[CanadianCountry]

If thats a right number in you mind, good luck. I guess its difficult to accept more revocations will come. Why pass a law if not going to enforce it.

Yeah, and why just 4000? Why not 10 million?

 

[dpenabill]

Relative to the intent provision, not about the new revocation provisions based on acts of terrorism or treason or such:

The point is not that no revocation of citizenship will occur.

Under this government there will, for sure, continue to be elevated scrutiny and proceedings to revoke citizenship for fraud.

But make no mistake, it will be the revoking of citizenship for fraud, for having made a material misrepresentation of fact either in the course of applying for PR or applying for citizenship.

There is nothing in the law which will authorize the revocation of citizenship because a citizen has moved abroad. Period.

For those afraid the government will round up all left-handed people and put them in work camps, they might be afraid the government will revoke citizenship for those who move abroad, recognizing there is as much legal authority for either of these as there is for the other . . . as in NO legal authority to do either of these things.

 

[keesio]

My original comment is that its all in great likelihood that that CIC can yank citizenships on an annual basis based on the amount of time lived abroad.

Well we will just have to agree to disagree on this subject. I'm done with this argument. If you want to live the rest of your life with the fear/anger that the government can revoke your citizenship just because you live abroad, then so be it.

 

[CanadianCountry]

We can agree to disagree. I dont call it fear/anger but i call it "caution". Better safe than sorry.

Well we will just have to agree to disagree on this subject. I'm done with this argument. If you want to live the rest of your life with the fear/anger that the government can revoke your citizenship just because you live abroad, then so be it.

 

[buddhaB]

We can agree to disagree. I dont call it fear/anger but i call it "caution". Better safe than sorry.

Agreed.This has been my main concern.

After getting a degree in Canada and spending 10 years,I might consider moving elsewhere,like the US or brazil or russia if I get a job that I like there.I like to live abroad.And I am curious if one day the CIC might say hey! you have not come back to Canada in the last X years,the CIC is going to re-consider your eligibility for citizenship ( even though you are canadian now)

 

[neutral]

We can agree to disagree. I dont call it fear/anger but i call it "caution". Better safe than sorry.

Caution of what? It's like an earthquake, you can't do anything to avoid it, so what you have in fact is fear.

 

[CanadianCountry]

Dont split hairs. If its like an earthquake, where is the "due process" which has been drummed all along. The statements are cautionary so leave it to that.

Caution of what? It's like an earthquake, you can't do anything to avoid it, so what you have in fact is fear.

 

[dpenabill]

Agreed.This has been my main concern.

After getting a degree in Canada and spending 10 years,I might consider moving elsewhere,like the US or brazil or russia if I get a job that I like there.I like to live abroad.And I am curious if one day the CIC might say hey! you have not come back to Canada in the last X years,the CIC is going to re-consider your eligibility for citizenship ( even though you are canadian now)

If you commit fraud during the application process for PR or the process for becoming a Canadian citizen, there will indeed always be reason to look over your shoulder.

A recent case in which an individual who has been a citizen of Canada since the mid-50s lost his citizenship because he failed to fully detail all units he was assigned to serve with when he was a draftee conscripted to serve in the German military in WW II . . . he was Ukrainian who knew German, Russian, and . . . he was drafted by the occupying army to work as an interpreter . . . probably faced the prospect of a firing squad if he attempted to desert. When he came to Canada he failed to list all units he served with. That was deemed a sufficient misrepresentation to revoke his citizenship by a Federal Court decision in January this year.

So sure, any misrepresentation, you can spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder wondering who might betray you, who might turn you in . . .

For the rest of us, including those among us who are not eligible for citizenship yet but will get citizenship in the coming years, who did not make any misrepresentations in our applications for PR or citizenship, we can come and go from Canada as we please without any apprehension at all that living abroad will have any effect on our rights as citizens of Canada.

BTW: No splitting of hairs necessary to understand that a provision of law that applies only to PRs does not impose any travel limitations on a citizen.