Question about Cohabitation once in Canada

[andrewmadrid]

Hi All,

I have a question about the Condition of having to live with my sponsor (my wife) for 2 years after I become a PR. We have been married for almost 5 years. I received my COPR in November, and have to enter Canada by Sept. 2014. It does state on my COPR under Conditions that "Must cohabit in conjugal relationship with your sponsor 2 years...." (Although I thought that didn't apply to relationships longer than 2 years)

My wife and I live and work in Madrid, Spain at a school. She is a teacher and I an I.T. guy at the school.
Our situation is a little difficult as I can leave my job with a month notice, where as my wife needs to finish the school year out (to June 2014).

When we move to Canada, I'll be supporting my wife as she wants to go back to school, so I've already started looking for jobs in my sector, and I've found a few that look good.

So my question is if the following situation is acceptable:

If I am able to find a job starting sometime next semester. My plan was that my wife would take a week off, and we would fly to Toronto together, so that I can officially "land" and in that week get setup, rent an apartment, get social security #, open a bank account etc. (Both our names on all accounts and rent agreements)

At the end of the week my wife would fly back to Madrid, and finish out the school year, and then come join me permanently at the end of June. If this happens before April she would come to visit me again for about 10 days during Easter vacation.

So assuming that I'd start a job in Feb-March, or April-June, there is a potential 8-12week gap were we wouldn't be together.

Is this scenario doable or would this cause problems?

Thanks for any advice. We're not trying to fool anybody here, I just don't want to miss out on good job opportunity since i'll be the bread-winner for 3-4 years!

 

[zardoz]

Hi All,

I have a question about the Condition of having to live with my sponsor (my wife) for 2 years after I become a PR. We have been married for almost 5 years. I received my COPR in November, and have to enter Canada by Sept. 2014. It does state on my COPR under Conditions that "Must cohabit in conjugal relationship with your sponsor 2 years...." (Although I thought that didn't apply to relationships longer than 2 years)

My wife and I live and work in Madrid, Spain at a school. She is a teacher and I an I.T. guy at the school.
Our situation is a little difficult as I can leave my job with a month notice, where as my wife needs to finish the school year out (to June 2014).

When we move to Canada, I'll be supporting my wife as she wants to go back to school, so I've already started looking for jobs in my sector, and I've found a few that look good.

So my question is if the following situation is acceptable:

If I am able to find a job starting sometime next semester. My plan was that my wife would take a week off, and we would fly to Toronto together, so that I can officially "land" and in that week get setup, rent an apartment, get social security #, open a bank account etc. (Both our names on all accounts and rent agreements)

At the end of the week my wife would fly back to Madrid, and finish out the school year, and then come join me permanently at the end of June. If this happens before April she would come to visit me again for about 10 days during Easter vacation.

So assuming that I'd start a job in Feb-March, or April-June, there is a potential 8-12week gap were we wouldn't be together.

Is this scenario doable or would this cause problems?

Thanks for any advice. We're not trying to fool anybody here, I just don't want to miss out on good job opportunity since i'll be the bread-winner for 3-4 years!

Your COPR is faulty. Condition 51 does not apply if you have been married for more than 2 years. Contact the issuing visa office by raising a Case Specific Enquiry to inform them of their administrative error. They should ask for your COPR back and reissue it with no conditions. I had the same problem via London.

 

[andrewmadrid]

Woah! Thanks for the reply. I just sent an "Urgent" email to the embassy in Paris attaching a photo of the COPR. Hopefully they get back to me soon.

 

[truesmile]

Faulty or no, I don`t think it matters either way. So long as you are still together two years later, and that`s EVEN IF they came looking, then you would be fine. Many here believe (including myself) they`re not even going to `go looking`, UNLESS it`s reported to the CIC that you are no longer together indicating it may have been an MOC.

 

[zardoz]

I agree that in practice it may not matter, and it's possible that even with Condition 51 on the COPR, if you did separate before the two years, it may not be enforcible in court. However, London were extremely keen to get my COPR back and used the word "urgently" in the request email. In my GCMS notes, they acknowledged an "administrative error".

Given that we get posts on here worrying about COPR errors such as height and eye colour, the application of an incorrect condition could be seen as a much more serious error.

 

[andrewmadrid]

Well see what they say, as truesmile mentioned that in practice it probably would not matter anyway, as they most likely would not check up. I just hope that the process is quick to get it turned around, as ive already applied for a position :-X

Thanks for your input.

 

[Rob_TO]

Well see what they say, as truesmile mentioned that in practice it probably would not matter anyway, as they most likely would not check up. I just hope that the process is quick to get it turned around, as ive already applied for a position :-X

Thanks for your input.

You still don't want to risk it. For those on conditional PR, all it would take is 1 border services officer noticing they have been away from Canada and their spouse for a few months... and to report it to the CIC.

Would CIC actually do anything? Probably not. But I wouldn't want to be a test subject for how this new rule is enforced. Better to clear up your PR status upfront.

 

[andrewmadrid]

I just received this response back from the Embassy in Paris:


Information of your CRP is correct you can validate in an input port in Canada (airport).


Now I'm confused....

 

[zardoz]

I just received this response back from the Embassy in Paris:


Information of your CRP is correct you can validate in an input port in Canada (airport).


Now I'm confused....

You're not the only one... Might be worth checking your maths against the requirements on the date that your application was accepted by CIC

 

[SenoritaBella]

Were you married for more than 2 years AND have children in common before you applied?

There is no mention of kids, so assuming they aren't any, this would be the reason the COPR has conditions even if they were married for more than 2 years before applying.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

I just received this response back from the Embassy in Paris:


Information of your CRP is correct you can validate in an input port in Canada (airport).


Now I'm confused....

I would just land with it as it is; take a copy of your marriage certificate and mention the error to the landing officer and see if s/he can correct it.

If 2 years from now, they try to make a case against you for being apart, you will be able to show them your marriage certificate proving that you had already been married for 4 years when you submitted your sponsorship application and therefore the conditional PR rule didn't apply to you.

 

[zardoz]

Were you married for more than 2 years AND have children in common before you applied?

There is no mention of kids, so assuming they aren't any, this would be the reason the COPR has conditions even if they were married for more than 2 years before applying.

This is still incorrect reading of the legislation. The condition doesn't apply if they have been together for more than two years OR have children in common, not AND. See http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2002-227/page-28.html#h-33

Condition

72.1 (1) Subject to subsections (5) and (6), a permanent resident described in subsection (2) is subject to the condition that they must cohabit in a conjugal relationship with their sponsor for a continuous period of two years after the day on which they became a permanent resident.
Marginal noteermanent resident subject to condition

(2) For the purpose of subsection (1) and subject to subsection (3), the permanent resident is a person who was a foreign national who
(a) became a permanent resident after making an application for permanent residence as a member of the family class, or an application as a member of the spouse or common-law partner in Canada class to remain in Canada as a permanent resident, as applicable;
(b) at the time the sponsor filed a sponsorship application with respect to the person under paragraph 130(1)(c) had been the spouse, common-law partner or conjugal partner of the sponsor, as applicable, for a period of two years or less; and
(c) had no child in respect of whom both they and the sponsor were the parents at the time the sponsor filed a sponsorship application with respect to the person under paragraph 130(1)(c).

 

[SenoritaBella]

Here's what the CIC website says: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/sponsor/spouse.asp

The key to determining if andrewmadrid's Confirmation of Permanent Residence (COPR) document is valid with the conditions is #3 below.
We know he has been married for 5 years, but was he married for more than 2 years at the time of the application?
Did they have children in common at the time of the application?

To me it looks like if either #2 or #3 or both #2 and 3 are also 'Yes', then the conditional PR applies. Therefore, the co-habitation requirement applies.

"Effective October 25, 2012, sponsored spouses or partners must now live together in a legitimate relationship with their sponsor for two years from the day they receive permanent residence status in Canada.

If you are a spouse or partner being sponsored to come to Canada, this applies to you if:
1. You are being sponsored by a permanent resident or Canadian citizen
2. You have been in a relationship for two years or less with your sponsor
3. You have no children in common
4. Your application was received on or after October 25, 2012"

This is still incorrect reading of the legislation. The condition doesn't apply if they have been together for more than two years OR have children in common, not AND. See http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2002-227/page-28.html#h-33

 

[zardoz]

You are still wrong...

As you correctly state, "The new regulations apply to spouses or partners in a relationship of two years or less and who have no children in common with their sponsor at the time they submit their sponsorship application".

Therefore, it ONLY applies if you have been "in a relationship of two years or less AND who have no children in common with their sponsor"

If either side of the AND is not true, the condition fails. You are treating the AND as an OR. Both parts of the equation have to be "true".

I know this to be a fact as I have been married to my sponsor for more than two years AND we have no children in common. London confirmed that they incorrectly applied Condition 51 and have removed it.

Read the quoted legislation VERY carefully... I have highlighted the critical bit.

Condition

72.1 (1) Subject to subsections (5) and (6), a permanent resident described in subsection (2) is subject to the condition that they must cohabit in a conjugal relationship with their sponsor for a continuous period of two years after the day on which they became a permanent resident.
Marginal noteermanent resident subject to condition

(2) For the purpose of subsection (1) and subject to subsection (3), the permanent resident is a person who was a foreign national who
(a) became a permanent resident after making an application for permanent residence as a member of the family class, or an application as a member of the spouse or common-law partner in Canada class to remain in Canada as a permanent resident, as applicable; <- Note the absence of an "and".
(b) at the time the sponsor filed a sponsorship application with respect to the person under paragraph 130(1)(c) had been the spouse, common-law partner or conjugal partner of the sponsor, as applicable, for a period of two years or less; and
(c) had no child in respect of whom both they and the sponsor were the parents at the time the sponsor filed a sponsorship application with respect to the person under paragraph 130(1)(c).

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Agree completely with zardoz.

As the OP had been married for around 4 years when the app was submitted earlier this year, the conditional rule should NOT have been applied