QUEBEC APPLICANTS LETS SHARE EXPERIENCE

[francaise]

+1

reciprocated sir

 

[francaise]

Hey Francaise,

It's a long post so hold on and bear with me

I am glad you responded so vehemently and the examples you stated because these cases is what I was refering too in my example, I just didnt want to call any names; specifically Quebec2011 and I will tell you why. Firstly for your benefit and everyone else reading this post recall my example: " For example (using French but the same goes for English) if you applied in 2011 and you indicated on your application you knowledge for listening and speaking is 7 and 6 respectively this corresponds to level B2; In fact, at level 7 you are regarded as Francophonie. But if at a later date you submit B1 as proof as the level of French you know you harm your chances as your information does not match - on the old form B1 corresponds to level 5 out of 12 {intermediate not Francophonie}. You could be penalised as overstating you knowledge of French....Consistency is key my friend....

Now I will share two (2) things you probably didnt know about quebec2011 to settle your concerns:

(1)
The example above (claiming on your CSQ application you have B2 knowledge and submitting something else is just what Quebec2011 did: for proof please see http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/qsw-from-ndvo-lets-connect-t92803.15.html...for convenience this is what Quebec2011 wrote:

"Yes the have used the new rule in evaluation of my DELF B1 result as I had 12/25 in listening part and 19/25 in speaking so they have given me 7/16 points. Though I had claimed 12/16 points which is B2, Now I am preparing my appeal papers Hope that work.

Previously it was not mandatory to send french result then they should call me to interview to see my french level as I am in this level now perfectly but I have shortage of time otherwise I am ready to take Delf B2 exam in Mid Feb.

Good luck"

Clearly it could be seen Quebec2011 claimed on his/her application they have B2 knowledge, but submitted scores for B1...Quebec was incorrect in stating that he was scored according to new rules. NO he was scored according to B1. Proof look at page 39 in the 2011 GUIDE DES PROCÉDURES D'IMMIGRATION here http://www2.publicationsduquebec.gouv.qc.ca/dynamicSearch/telecharge.php?type=7&file=GPI-5-7.pdf. Firstly in this table look at the rightmost column "Niveaux NCFLS (MICC)"...we can assume to claim B2 Quebec2011 would have placed in his/her application at least level 7 (12 pts) but his supporting documents showed otherwise and he/she was graded to the documents presented which is level 5 or 6 (B1) (at most 8 pts). It's sad but submitting a lower level french knowledge hung the application....I read somewhere that false or misleading information on your application can reject your application. Secondly, it was incorrect to calculate 12/16 (B2) according to what Quebec2011 wrote in the extract above since he was inconsistent in the supporting documents provided. Lesson here be as consistent as possible, our applications go through various and rigourous examinations.

(2)

The other thing you probably didnt know was language was not the deciding factor that Qubec2011 application got rejected - It was the missing of points he/she anticipated. Proof see here http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/quebec-immigration-skilled-worker-program-t60764.1995.html. Again for convenience see below writen by Quebec2011:

"I have DELF b1 my friend and there is nothing like french improvement, they haven't considered some of the points that is the reason for my rejection.

Age 16/16
Qualification 6/12 bachelor of business management
Area of training 0/16
Experience 4/8 I have more than 3 years of experience
french 7/16 I have Delf b1
English 6/6
Wife's age 3/3
Wife's Qualification 0/3
wife's area of training 0
French 2/6
financial self sufficiency 1/1

Good luck everyone"

a) Again we see here he submitted B1 scores but claimed B2 on application. If you calculated the points above even if Quebec2011 got 8/12 (B2 level) the score will be stil insuffcient. Therefore Quebec2011 was greatly concerned with the following;

b) Quebec2011 was concerned for the missing points on the AOT as he/she felt their training was in line with heir qualifications.

c) Experience he/she stated is more tan three (3) years.

d) For Wife's qualifications and AOT got no score.

These herein are the facts of the matter when I researched Quebec2011's case...


For walkingmarvel the information you presented is vague. Mainly because I do not know which level was presented, in your extract it says walkingmarvel took A1/A2 (is it either A1 or A2 or both?...this causes some abiguity for me). Secondly, your extract states However, he brought to our attention that we did not have enough marks to score points in the Oral section. I guess the marks reflect 14 & he said it should be above 16 (I am not exactly sure abt the figures). So even that was a moral breaking ground. Words are very powerful/important and it carries meaning, with this said the word choice by walkingmarvel creates doubt that the new rule was applied to his case. The words "I guess..." and again "I am not exactly sure about the figure" are words one use when making an assumption. Therefore I cannot conclude from walkingmarvel's account that the new rule is applied to old applicants.

What I can conclude though is aim high in your french test, and while waiting for the interview master as much french as you can. Also I repeat the need for consistency to all new appicants failure to be as consistent as possible could result in your applicantion being rejected. Finally, do not get scared and live in fear at another person's experience, your experience is your own and all of our cases will be different...someone could have a good score and do horrible in the interview, someone could have a low score and be selected because of the authenticity of their documents....Embrace your individual experience and Good Luck

Bajan

It's not like that, No matter what an applicant mentioned in application, BIQ assess points, according to the documents an applicant submitted.

 

[Bajan4Quebec]

Thanks a million Bajan4Quebec.

The "Application for Selection Certificate" (http://www.immigration-quebec.gouv.qc.ca/en/forms/search-title/dcs-workers/index.html) has a space to stick photos of yourself and accompanying people. So I assume just one photo of mine? But that is weird, isn't it? I don't know! Don't stick the photo(s) on yourself, pin them on by paper clip on the top of the application form. If the photos came in a small envelop, place the photos in there and attach that samll envelop by paper clip. Don't send just one photo...send three or the entire bunch, if you supplied more than is needed they will just discard of the others they dont want. Hey it is better to supply more than is needed than less

Also, did you put passport-size photo or visa-size photos? I believe immigration photos...I could send you the specifics just PM me so I can send it there

Also, I did not understand what you said about labels on envelope? Should I print out the BIQ's address on plain paper and stick it on the envelope and stick my address in the same way on the back side of the envelope? That's one way of looking at it, what I did I attached mine by adhesive labels...I did it in my office hehehehehe Yes, sending it by trackable courier.

 

[Bajan4Quebec]

It's not like that, No matter what an applicant mentioned in application, BIQ assess points, according to the documents an applicant submitted.

Yes, they assess by the application along with the documents submitted in the application....But please understand if you are going to send documents at a later stage it is taken as an update that this is the most current information about myself to support my application package....If your update(s) does not add conclusive support you can actually deter your chances (TRUST ME ON THIS ONE)

Bajan

 

[hec006]

Hey Francaise,

It's a long post so hold on and bear with me

I am glad you responded so vehemently and the examples you stated because these cases is what I was refering too in my example, I just didnt want to call any names; specifically Quebec2011 and I will tell you why. Firstly for your benefit and everyone else reading this post recall my example: " For example (using French but the same goes for English) if you applied in 2011 and you indicated on your application you knowledge for listening and speaking is 7 and 6 respectively this corresponds to level B2; In fact, at level 7 you are regarded as Francophonie. But if at a later date you submit B1 as proof as the level of French you know you harm your chances as your information does not match - on the old form B1 corresponds to level 5 out of 12 {intermediate not Francophonie}. You could be penalised as overstating you knowledge of French....Consistency is key my friend....

Now I will share two (2) things you probably didnt know about quebec2011 to settle your concerns:

(1)
The example above (claiming on your CSQ application you have B2 knowledge and submitting something else is just what Quebec2011 did: for proof please see http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/qsw-from-ndvo-lets-connect-t92803.15.html...for convenience this is what Quebec2011 wrote:

"Yes the have used the new rule in evaluation of my DELF B1 result as I had 12/25 in listening part and 19/25 in speaking so they have given me 7/16 points. Though I had claimed 12/16 points which is B2, Now I am preparing my appeal papers Hope that work.

Previously it was not mandatory to send french result then they should call me to interview to see my french level as I am in this level now perfectly but I have shortage of time otherwise I am ready to take Delf B2 exam in Mid Feb.

Good luck"

Clearly it could be seen Quebec2011 claimed on his/her application they have B2 knowledge, but submitted scores for B1...Quebec was incorrect in stating that he was scored according to new rules. NO he was scored according to B1. Proof look at page 39 in the 2011 GUIDE DES PROCÉDURES D'IMMIGRATION here http://www2.publicationsduquebec.gouv.qc.ca/dynamicSearch/telecharge.php?type=7&file=GPI-5-7.pdf. Firstly in this table look at the rightmost column "Niveaux NCFLS (MICC)"...we can assume to claim B2 Quebec2011 would have placed in his/her application at least level 7 (12 pts) but his supporting documents showed otherwise and he/she was graded to the documents presented which is level 5 or 6 (B1) (at most 8 pts). It's sad but submitting a lower level french knowledge hung the application....I read somewhere that false or misleading information on your application can reject your application. Secondly, it was incorrect to calculate 12/16 (B2) according to what Quebec2011 wrote in the extract above since he was inconsistent in the supporting documents provided. Lesson here be as consistent as possible, our applications go through various and rigourous examinations. - At the time of October, 2010, there were no mandatory rule to submit test result for French. hence may be quebec2011 has submitted B1 result, but he can claim he has the knowledge at B2 level. and that challenge of quebec 2011 will be judged by IO at the time of interview. Becoz, quebec2011 has submitted B1 result well before the the interview( at least 1 month before). So, nobody can't argue that quebec2011 has not developed his french skill to B2 level at the time interview. BIQ knows that. That's why they have sent Preliminary result based offline contact .. not based on face-to-face contact( happened in interview and give final result)

(2)

The other thing you probably didnt know was language was not the deciding factor that Qubec2011 application got rejected - It was the missing of points he/she anticipated. Proof see here http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/quebec-immigration-skilled-worker-program-t60764.1995.html. Again for convenience see below writen by Quebec2011:

"I have DELF b1 my friend and there is nothing like french improvement, they haven't considered some of the points that is the reason for my rejection.

Age 16/16
Qualification 6/12 bachelor of business management
Area of training 0/16
Experience 4/8 I have more than 3 years of experience
french 7/16 I have Delf b1 -- 4+3 (as per 16/25 rule).. 4+4=8 ( as per the old rule).. Clearly dictates the formula..
English 6/6
Wife's age 3/3
Wife's Qualification 0/3
wife's area of training 0
French 2/6
financial self sufficiency 1/1
- We are concerned about the French Skill only here not the other things AOT, wife's AOT etc and also not concerned about Quebec2011's rejection.

Good luck everyone"

a) Again we see here he submitted B1 scores but claimed B2 on application. If you calculated the points above even if Quebec2011 got 8/12 (B2 level) the score will be stil insuffcient. Therefore Quebec2011 was greatly concerned with the following;

b) Quebec2011 was concerned for the missing points on the AOT as he/she felt their training was in line with heir qualifications.

c) Experience he/she stated is more tan three (3) years.

d) For Wife's qualifications and AOT got no score.

- May be BIQ call him for interview if his marks total marks at exactly 52 ( 57-52=12-7). Extra 5 marks challenge by quebec 2011 would be judged in interview and also judgement for adaptability. As his marks is below 52 that's why he was rejected.

But concern is that "7" marks instead of "8" marks. that means new rule.

These herein are the facts of the matter when I researched Quebec2011's case...


For walkingmarvel the information you presented is vague. Mainly because I do not know which level was presented, in your extract it says walkingmarvel took A1/A2 (is it either A1 or A2 or both?...this causes some abiguity for me).- it is A2. If it is A1, then below 16 will not give any marks. Maybe only in one section he has below 16. A1/A2 indicates... A1 + A2 both exam he has taken. Secondly, your extract states However, he brought to our attention that we did not have enough marks to score points in the Oral section. I guess the marks reflect 14 & he said it should be above 16 (I am not exactly sure abt the figures).- maybe he is illeterate about immigration rule. he forgot the exact limit .. is it 16 or 17 or 18 .. like that.. But he was 14< good limit... he was trying to mention the same. So even that was a moral breaking ground. Words are very powerful/important and it carries meaning, with this said the word choice by walkingmarvel creates doubt that the new rule was applied to his case. The words "I guess..." and again "I am not exactly sure about the figure" are words one use when making an assumption.
Walking marvel is writing in Forum.. not taking the job interview... So, this is the way of writing ... not like lack of knowledge or hestitaion. Therefore I cannot conclude from walkingmarvel's account that the new rule is applied to old applicants.

What I can conclude though is aim high in your french test, and while waiting for the interview master as much french as you can. Also I repeat the need for consistency to all new appicants failure to be as consistent as possible could result in your applicantion being rejected. Finally, do not get scared and live in fear at another person's experience, your experience is your own and all of our cases will be different...someone could have a good score and do horrible in the interview, someone could have a low score and be selected because of the authenticity of their documents....Embrace your individual experience and Good Luck

Bajan

 

[nevillek]

Thanks again, Bajan4Quebec. You are awesome!

 

[Bajan4Quebec]

Hec & Francaise,

I will not go at length to answer the errors each of you have made in your replies to my post all I can say is becareful not to mislead others anything I write here I can support my argument with conclusive proof. Do not for a second impress upon members here that they can claim something on the form and their supporting documents indicate otherwise. Visa Officers scoring is objective and not subjective....they owe us no favors, hence more the reason to ensure what you put in that application and what you submit as proof aligns...Its preposterous to think otherwise. I am truly sorry for what happened to Quebec2011, but I know for a FACT that to claim a higher language proficiency than the document you submit as proof can be detrimental to your case. You may be trying at a higher level but the visa officer does not see this all he/she sees is that paper you present and your evidence...

Finally, who is to say there is an old or new rule? For all you know visa officers used the above 16 by discretion and given that it is only now where applicants must submit approved scores if they want to claim language points that it have been placed into print

That is All

Regards

 

[hec006]

Yes, they assess by the application along with the documents submitted in the application....But please understand if you are going to send documents at a later stage it is taken as an update- if you send your new born child Birth certificate or Divorce certificate, will they not add or cut down points..? that this is the most current information about myself to support my application package....If your update(s) does not add conclusive support you can actually deter your chances (TRUST ME ON THIS ONE)

Bajan

For example .. now the time is october, 2010. test results not mandatory. I can claim I have C2 level knowledge. May be I have some other French certification with C2 level... taken some course in c2 level.. I have some French friends who talk at C2 level... not just DELF ... I can claim....I have that knowledge ... may IO can judge that... But,, I can claim...

 

[francaise]

Hec & Francaise,

I will not go at length to answer the errors each of you have made in your replies to my post all I can say is becareful not to mislead others anything I write here I can support my argument with conclusive proof.

That is All

Regards

we are not misleading others, that's the bitter truth and should accept it.

 

[hec006]

Hec & Francaise,

I will not go at length to answer the errors each of you have made in your replies to my post all I can say is becareful not to mislead others anything I write here I can support my argument with conclusive proof.

That is All

Regards

Hello Bajan4Quebec,

Please don't take otherwise... yes..maybe we were somewhere wrong... If you have the proof.. just put forward the same and comment on my post. here, everyone want to just put the argument and so that other viewers can view and judge what is wrong and right. If One people only says then there no question comes that there is other way... in which we can get the success.

Always you are welcome !!!

 

[Bajan4Quebec]

For example .. now the time is october, 2010. test results not mandatory. I can claim I have C2 level knowledge. May be I have some other French certification with C2 level... taken some course in c2 level.. I have some French friends who talk at C2 level... not just DELF ... I can claim....I have that knowledge ... may IO can judge that... But,, I can claim...

Firstly, divorce and Marriage are treated very differently from each other and based on the nature of your case points could be added or deducted. One hting that is clear regarding if it is a marriage or divorce, your application will be delayed and the result can change from you being eligible to not being eligible.

To your above quote, one question comes to mind: How can you determine or what basis can you say the certification is equivalent to C2? If it is not one of the four (4) approved testing institutions how can you say its equivalent? Esp. The test you claim as equivalent may not test the same factors listening, speaking....it may test for wrting and/or listening....tell me how can you determine its equivalence?

 

[Bajan4Quebec]

we are not misleading others, that's the bitter truth and should accept it.

I clicked send before I was ready to post but this is my full argument

Hec & Francaise,

I will not go at length to answer the errors each of you have made in your replies to my post all I can say is becareful not to mislead others anything I write here I can support my argument with conclusive proof. Do not for a second impress upon members here that they can claim something on the form and their supporting documents indicate otherwise. Visa Officers scoring is objective and not subjective....they owe us no favors, hence more the reason to ensure what you put in that application and what you submit as proof aligns...Its preposterous to think otherwise. I am truly sorry for what happened to Quebec2011, but I know for a FACT that to claim a higher language proficiency than the document you submit as proof can be detrimental to your case. You may be trying at a higher level but the visa officer does not see this all he/she sees is that paper you present and your evidence...

Finally, who is to say there is an old or new rule? For all you know visa officers used the above 16 by discretion and given that it is only now where applicants must submit approved scores if they want to claim language points that it have been placed into print

That is All

Regards

 

[hec006]

Firstly, divorce and Marriage are treated very differently from each other and based on the nature of your case points could be added or deducted. One hting that is clear regarding if it is a marriage or divorce, your application will be delayed and the result can change from you being eligible to not being eligible.- Difference btw Divorce and Marriage is not concern. Delay is not concern... They will update the points or not is the concern( as per change to application Dyn Form.

To your above quote, one question comes to mind: How can you determine or what basis can you say the certification is equivalent to C2? If it is not one of the four (4) approved testing institutions how can you say its equivalent? - ( talking at the time of october 2010 - November 2011)When the test results are not mandatory, I can easily say I am at the C2 level, if I am native French speaker or I have stayed in France or last 5 years. No need to Proof by submitting test result. This is not mandatory.

What do u think if you have B2 level certification that means you are master in French. No, it's definitely proof your ability somewhat. But that's not all. many French companaies don't rely on french results .. they take only native french speaking person.

 

[hec006]

I clicked send before I was ready to post but this is my full argument

Hec & Francaise,

I will not go at length to answer the errors each of you have made in your replies to my post all I can say is becareful not to mislead others anything I write here I can support my argument with conclusive proof. Do not for a second impress upon members here that they can claim something on the form and their supporting documents indicate otherwise. Visa Officers scoring is objective and not subjective....they owe us no favors, hence more the reason to ensure what you put in that application and what you submit as proof aligns...Its preposterous to think otherwise. I am truly sorry for what happened to Quebec2011, but I know for a FACT that to claim a higher language proficiency than the document you submit as proof can be detrimental to your case- yes, definitely for the academics and age and other things that happened in the past...it is really needed to submit the exact document.. But, until I am not taking the exam how I will understand that I will be at B1 or B2 level. It depends on many things, Exam question. balance in mind. Maybe ... I am at C1 level proficiency.. but didn't perform well in Exam.. That's why I am at B1. How forecasting is possible. You may be trying at a higher level but the visa officer does not see this all he/she sees is that paper you present and your evidence...

Finally, who is to say there is an old or new rule? - There are numerous new rule but one old rule before September, 2011. Please study well For all you know visa officers used the above 16 by discretion( FYI .. no discretion, IO can't take the decision on own basis or freedom, if he does he can loss the job after administrative review.. Decision solely based on GPI..) and given that it is only now where applicants must ( not true for before Dec, 2011 applicant)submit approved scores if they want to claim language points that it have been placed into print

That is All

Regards

 

[Bajan4Quebec]

Actually, if you are a native French speaker you did not have to submit test scores...for example some persons I know from haiti and Guadeloupe did not have too.

Alas, you understand my point it depends on the prevailing GPI so therefore old candidates are judged on the GPI for that time and new candidates are judged on the new GPI. So to put the argument to rest why do you fear if your french score will be calculated on new GPI rule? You are an old (not age but year lol) applicant arent you? It gives more solid reason therefore that Quebec2011 was not judged via new rule but rather on the document that he/she supplied as support to their claim in the application. I hope you are clear