PRTD while accompanying Canadian citizen abroad

[Tubsmagee]

Wanted to share my experience with applying for PRTD while accompanying a Canadian citizen spouse out of Canada for extended period.

• Sponsored by spouse Outland and landed in late 2007.
• Settled and lived in Canada for 2 years.
• Returned to US and have moved within country multiple times.
• We left Canada at the same time and have been together entire period.
• Spouse didn’t work for pay or go to school for majority of period.
• Applied for PRTD via portal on 6/13, provided documents showing living together - copy of both our current and previous drivers license which show the same address, previous lease, warranty deed, last 3 annual property tax assessment, 3 annual mortgage interest statements, 3 annual notices of house value, and a simple letter stating what was being requested, explaining address history, and that I had additional documentation if required.
• Documents showed both of our names and address and were representative of 5 year period.
• For addresses I noted two US addresses and the addresses for hotels from visits to Canada (in letter I mentioned this as explanation).
• I had a lot of documentation but there was a limit so I actually screenshot each page of documents and shrunk down inserted into PowerPoint, so one page had multiple full documents. The PP was converted to pdf before uploading.
• Linked to GCkey on 6/20 and saw review was underway.
• Received request for passport on 6/27.

I don’t think the who accompanies whom is as much of an issue as it is sometimes made out to be (except when other issues cause it to come to light). While my spouse wanted to return to US, I was the one who sought employment and all of our moves have been for my work - but it would be difficult to come to any conclusion on this based on information required in application. Over this 5 year period, I had 15 days physical in Canada from two trips, 0 within last 3 years. I realize that it may be (and is even likely) different if I were applying to renew my PR card.

Will update after I get passport back as I requested multiple entry for extended period.

 

[Ponga]

Wanted to share my experience with applying for PRTD while accompanying a Canadian citizen spouse out of Canada for extended period.


I don’t think the who accompanies whom is as much of an issue as it is sometimes made out to be (except when other issues cause it to come to light). While my spouse wanted to return to US, I was the one who sought employment and all of our moves have been for my work - but it would be difficult to come to any conclusion on this based on information required in application. Over this 5 year period, I had 15 days physical in Canada from two trips, 0 within last 3 years. I realize that it may be (and is even likely) different if I were applying to renew my PR card.

Will update after I get passport back as I requested multiple entry for extended period.

IMHO, the `who accompanied whom' issue is amplified IF the PR never settled in Canada BEFORE the Canadian spouse/sponsor moved abroad, taking the PR spouse with them.

Regarding the last part of your post, I don't see how this would be different if your were applying to renew your PR card. Residency Obligation is Residency Obligation, no matter if applying for a PRTD of renewed PR card.

 

[Tubsmagee]

Regarding the last part of your post, I don't see how this would be different if your were applying to renew your PR card. Residency Obligation is Residency Obligation, no matter if applying for a PRTD of renewed PR card.

My comment was based on anecdotal evidence from postings here regarding some differences with processing of PRTD vs. PR card. I agree that the obligation should be applied consistently.

 

[Ponga]

My comment was based on anecdotal evidence from postings here regarding some differences with processing of PRTD vs. PR card. I agree that the obligation should be applied consistently.

Would be curious to learn more! I suppose one [obvious] difference would be the pesky photo(s) that PR Card applicants have to submit...and hope the online system doesn't reject them, even when they DO meet the photo specification!


It would also be good if IRCC would remove the language that states that a PRTD can only be applied for from Outside of Canada.
https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=064&top=10

"...You can only apply for a PRTD from outside Canada..."

Not true, at least as of recently per this thread:
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/prtd-application-submitted-in-canada-success-story.794260/

Good luck with your multiple entry PRTD!

 

[dpenabill]

I don’t think the who accompanies whom is as much of an issue as it is sometimes made out to be (except when other issues cause it to come to light).

As far as we can discern this does indeed appear to be the biggest, most important tipping point in whether there is a who-accompanied-whom issue.

For the vast majority of those potentially affected, understanding this should be reassuring, a big comfort.

What we do not know are the parameters for "when other issues cause" the who-accompanied-whom question to be addressed, other than (as I have very often tried to outline) in the more or less blatant and egregious cases. @Ponga references one, probably the most common one, which is the case where the PR never settled in Canada. Which are cases in which it is obviously NOT even possible the PR accompanied the citizen in moving abroad because the PR did not even move abroad from Canada.

An area we have not seen enough actual cases about to support any clear conclusions, but which has come up as a tangent in some of the who-accompanied-whom cases, involves situations in which the couple are not continually (generally) together, such as where the couple are apart for extended periods of time during the relevant five years even though (at least arguably) living together for at least 730 days.

Here, for example, @Tubsmagee reports "We left Canada at the same time and have been together entire period."

There is no hint, in this, that the couple was not "ordinarily residing" together (which is what the applicable regulation and guidelines focus on), and it is otherwise clear the couple is accompanying one another.

Which brings up a fracture line in some of the cases about this issue, and to my view underlies at least several of those which do not address this directly, and that is a distinction for cases in which the circumstances make it readily appear the couple are moving together (at least in proximity, not necessarily at the exact same time), that is consistent with one definition of "accompanying," the one that does not distinguish "with whom" (basically meaning traveling or going together). In particular, in the vast majority of the cases where this issue led to an appeal, and as far as I have seen in all but one or three of those in which this issue was the basis for upholding a decision terminating PR status, the couple were not even accompanying one another at all attendant a move outside Canada.

That is not the issue focused on in many of those cases. That is not a distinction the Minister's representative has advocated. But it is nonetheless the most common thread underlying most, and perhaps all but a few of the cases.

Bottom-line: it appears that PRs living abroad with a Canadian citizen spouse are not ordinarily asked to address who-accompanied-whom questions unless it looks relatively obvious that they were not accompanying one another. This is no guarantee the issue will not come up otherwise. There is one case otherwise (which to my view seemed driven by bias or a credibility issue, or a combination of those).

 

[Tubsmagee]

Here is the rest of the timeline for receiving the PRTD:

• 6/28 - Mailed passport to VAC using pre-paid two way courier service.
• 7/6 - Confirmation that passport had been received at VAC and sent to IRCC for processing.
• 7/7 - Confirmation that passport was under processing at IRCC office. Later, notified that decision envelope had been sent from IRCC to VAC.
• 7/8 - GCKey status updated to “Approved”.
• 7/11 - Received passport back with multi-year PRTD counterfoil.

Overall, very quick and easy process. I am glad to have done it, even though I likely won’t use it, since it at least reinforces my understanding of retaining status while accompanying a Canadian citizen spouse abroad. I don’t expect to apply for a PR card anytime soon, but will do so at some point, and it will be interesting to see whether the process differs.