PRTD or land border - 7 years outside Canada

[jack grover]

Dear Experts,
I need guidance in choosing between PRTD on H&C grounds vs land border crossing into Canada.

I got PR in 2005 and moved to Canada in Nov 2008. I got a SIN, Drivers License, Health card. I opened a corporation and started working as consultant. I returned to home country in Sep 2009 due to father’s ill health. As I am his only child, I had to take care of him.

Total time in Canada - 11 months

I started working in home country India. I got married in 2013 and now have 2 kids. I did a full time MBA and continued job in home country. I got USA B1 visa - travelled to USA in 2015 for 15 days. My father died recently. Now I am planning to move to Canada along with family (wife & 2 kids). So there is a 7.5 year gap since I last visited Canada.

What are the chances for getting PRTD on H&C grounds in India? If PRTD is rejected then can I use the land border crossing?
As I have a B1 visa, is it better to use the land border crossing? Any documents needed for land border crossing? What chances of getting reported? When can I apply for wife & kids - PR or visitor visa?

 

[scylla]

I suspect a PRTD under H&C will be difficult given how long you've been outside of Canada. Success will depend on the strength of the supporting documentation you can provide to prove your father's illness and that you were required to remain in your home country to take care of him. Even with strong evidence - approval is never guaranteed. Having said that, this is likely your best option given you now have a family.

If the PRTD is rejected then you'll need to appeal to save your PR status. Using the land border crossing at that point won't work as a means of keeping PR.

Note that if you go the boarder-crossing route (rather than the PRTD), you'll need to remain in Canada for two years straight before you'll be able to renew your PR status. You also won't be able to sponsor your family for PR until these two years have been completed. Your wife and children will need Canadian visitor visas in order to come with you to Canada. Do they have these already? Assuming they do, they will need to continue to renew their status as visitors while in Canada. During the 2 years they will be waiting before you can qualify to sponsor them, they'll only be in Canada as visitors - this means your wife won't be able to work, they probably won't qualify for health care coverage, and it's possible it may be difficult for your children to attend school without paying international student fees. Based on all of the above, not sure the border-crossing route is all that feasible for you. PRTD under H&C may be best - but again, if you're refused, you'll need to appeal to keep your status.

 

[Rob_TO]

The problem you face is uncertainty. You may go through all these efforts trying to move your family to Canada as visitors, and just find out later your PR status will be revoked and you'll all have to move back to India again.

Applying upfront for PR TD will eliminate lots of this uncertainty. If the PR TD is accepted on your H&C reasons, then you can move back to Canada and immediately apply to renew your PR card. You could also attempt to then sponsor your family members for PR. In this case you would need to be physically living in Canada, and your family could only join you if they all got TRVs approved. Else you would need to prepare to be separated from them for around 1 year (just short/temporary vacations are allowed).

If the PR TD is rejected, that starts process to revoke your PR status but you can choose to appeal it from India. If the appeal is lost, your PR status will be terminated. I don't see the point in you returning to Canada by land border in this case, since all you could do is wait out the time to your appeal in Canada. It may take years, only to find out your appeal is denied and you are no longer a PR. You can't sponsor any of your family while waiting for an appeal.

If your PR TD is rejected I would consider just accepting the rejection and allowing your PR status to terminate. Then you can look at applying under Express Entry from scratch, and if selected you can start fresh with PRs for your entire family.

 

[jack grover]

Thanks for the replies. This is my understanding so far based on reading the forum messages,

PRTD with humanitarian & compassionate grounds will take time (3-6 months) and difficult to achieve especially from India. Cost approx CAD 50. If rejected, then chance to go to Canada only for IAD appeal via PRTD.

Going via land border, will definitely get a in-person interview with secondary officer and and most likely get reported leading to Minister's delegate interview. Cost = travel cost + stay cost. If the decision is positive, then everything is fine, this is same as getting PRTD. I can apply for new PR card valid for 5 years. I can also apply PR for wife and kids. If not, I will be in limbo waiting for the appeal. I will get a PR card valid for 1 year only. I can sponsor wife and kids for visitor visa only. But being inside Canada, may give a positive decision in the appeal.

When I entered twice in 2008, I met the secondary officer twice during travels at Toronto airport. So my chances of meeting secondary officer at land border is also high at around 100%. So a proper case has to be presented to the secondary officer and Minister's delegate. Any advice on what would constitute a proper presentation of the H&C case at the land border?

PS: My 2 kids are 4 years and 2 years old. So schooling should not be a concern.

 

[zardoz]

Thanks for the replies. This is my understanding so far based on reading the forum messages,

PRTD with humanitarian & compassionate grounds will take time (3-6 months) and difficult to achieve especially from India. Cost approx CAD 50. If rejected, then chance to go to Canada only for IAD appeal via PRTD.

Going via land border, will definitely get a in-person interview with secondary officer and and most likely get reported leading to Minister's delegate interview. Cost = travel cost + stay cost. If the decision is positive, then everything is fine, this is same as getting PRTD. I can apply for new PR card valid for 5 years. I can also apply PR for wife and kids. If not, I will be in limbo waiting for the appeal. I will get a PR card valid for 1 year only. I can sponsor wife and kids for visitor visa only. But being inside Canada, may give a positive decision in the appeal.

When I entered twice in 2008, I met the secondary officer twice during travels at Toronto airport. So my chances of meeting secondary officer at land border is also high at around 100%. So a proper case has to be presented to the secondary officer and Minister's delegate. Any advice on what would constitute a proper presentation of the H&C case at the land border?

PS: My 2 kids are 4 years and 2 years old. So schooling should not be a concern.

If you haven't been in Canada within the past 12 months, you will not automatically get a PRTD to attend an appeal.

 

[Rob_TO]

Thanks for the replies. This is my understanding so far based on reading the forum messages,

PRTD with humanitarian & compassionate grounds will take time (3-6 months) and difficult to achieve especially from India. Cost approx CAD 50. If rejected, then chance to go to Canada only for IAD appeal via PRTD.

Going via land border, will definitely get a in-person interview with secondary officer and and most likely get reported leading to Minister's delegate interview. Cost = travel cost + stay cost. If the decision is positive, then everything is fine, this is same as getting PRTD. I can apply for new PR card valid for 5 years. I can also apply PR for wife and kids. If not, I will be in limbo waiting for the appeal. I will get a PR card valid for 1 year only. I can sponsor wife and kids for visitor visa only. But being inside Canada, may give a positive decision in the appeal.

When I entered twice in 2008, I met the secondary officer twice during travels at Toronto airport. So my chances of meeting secondary officer at land border is also high at around 100%. So a proper case has to be presented to the secondary officer and Minister's delegate. Any advice on what would constitute a proper presentation of the H&C case at the land border?

PS: My 2 kids are 4 years and 2 years old. So schooling should not be a concern.

As mentioned if you are rejected for PR TD in home country and it's denied, you'd only get a PR TD to return for the appeal if you've been to Canada within past 12 months. Else you're expected to do the appeal from home country.

Your H&C claim would need to show evidence on your parents medical condition and show why you needed to stay in home country. So you need things like doctors/specialist notes, hospital records, proof of day to day support of them, showing no other family lived in same city that could have helped, etc etc.

The chances of H&C being approved to cover almost 10 years outside Canada, is incredibly slim.

 

[jack grover]

Thank you Scylla, Rob and Zardoz.

A similar case for which Rob had replied is quite helpful. https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/file-for-pr-renewal-with-h-c-or-just-visa-exempt-status-to-go-home.519477/#post-6382674

A dossier with all relevant documents will help a lot. Will the border officers take the documents or copy all the documents for their reference?

Regards

 

[jack grover]

The problem you face is uncertainty. You may go through all these efforts trying to move your family to Canada as visitors, and just find out later your PR status will be revoked and you'll all have to move back to India again.

Applying upfront for PR TD will eliminate lots of this uncertainty. If the PR TD is accepted on your H&C reasons, then you can move back to Canada and immediately apply to renew your PR card. You could also attempt to then sponsor your family members for PR. In this case you would need to be physically living in Canada, and your family could only join you if they all got TRVs approved. Else you would need to prepare to be separated from them for around 1 year (just short/temporary vacations are allowed).

If the PR TD is rejected, that starts process to revoke your PR status but you can choose to appeal it from India. If the appeal is lost, your PR status will be terminated. I don't see the point in you returning to Canada by land border in this case, since all you could do is wait out the time to your appeal in Canada. It may take years, only to find out your appeal is denied and you are no longer a PR. You can't sponsor any of your family while waiting for an appeal.

If your PR TD is rejected I would consider just accepting the rejection and allowing your PR status to terminate. Then you can look at applying under Express Entry from scratch, and if selected you can start fresh with PRs for your entire family.

On the alternative approach of renouncing PR and applying fresh via Express entry: I got points which is below cutoff for Express entry currently. However if I have 3 more months of Canadian work experience, then I will be able to get a total of 1 year of Canadian experience. This will enable me to get points above cutoff. I can apply for Express entry after 3 months Canadian work experience. If I get selected, then I can renounce current PR and regain PR via Express entry along with my family. Will this approach work? Will I get selected for express entry when I am already PR?

 

[DEEPCUR]

On the alternative approach of renouncing PR and applying fresh via Express entry: I got points which is below cutoff for Express entry currently. However if I have 3 more months of Canadian work experience, then I will be able to get a total of 1 year of Canadian experience. This will enable me to get points above cutoff. I can apply for Express entry after 3 months Canadian work experience. If I get selected, then I can renounce current PR and regain PR via Express entry along with my family. Will this approach work? Will I get selected for express entry when I am already PR?

How would you travel to get that three months of experience? If you apply for work visa, IRCC will find out that you're a PR and you'd have to give up that eventually. Once you give it up, you are no different from other folks and get invitation for express entry if you qualify.

Why not take a lawyer's help and try your luck with H & C since you have a reasonably valid case?

 

[jack grover]

How would you travel to get that three months of experience? If you apply for work visa, IRCC will find out that you're a PR and you'd have to give up that eventually. Once you give it up, you are no different from other folks and get invitation for express entry if you qualify.

Why not take a lawyer's help and try your luck with H & C since you have a reasonably valid case?

I am planning to travel to Canada via land border from USA as I have US B1 visa. I will stay for some months and get a job and get the required Canada experience. Then I can apply for Express entry with sufficient points. Once I get invited, I can renounce PR without waiting for 2 years for the appeal to get completed.

Alternatively, I can apply for PRTD in India with H&C grounds. The big hurdle is : If PRTD gets rejected, can I travel back to Canada via land border from USA and then appeal from inside Canada? Since I have never been to Canada in 7 years, I cannot even get a PRTD for attending appeal.

 

[Buletruck]

If you managed to get through the land border without being reported, why wouldn’t you just stay 2 years to meet RO?
I doubt you application for EE would be accepted as you are already a PR? You should expect the application to be refused.
If your PRTD is refused, you can enter through the US border, but your time in Canada would not count towards residency obligation until your appeal is decided in your favour.

 

[jack grover]

If I enter without being reported, then I can stay for 2 years to meet RO. Only thing is I need to be able to bring my family to Canada on visitor visa.

 

[Bilkish]

Dear Experts,
I need guidance in choosing between PRTD on H&C grounds vs land border crossing into Canada.

I got PR in 2005 and moved to Canada in Nov 2008. I got a SIN, Drivers License, Health card. I opened a corporation and started working as consultant. I returned to home country in Sep 2009 due to father’s ill health. As I am his only child, I had to take care of him.

Total time in Canada - 11 months

I started working in home country India. I got married in 2013 and now have 2 kids. I did a full time MBA and continued job in home country. I got USA B1 visa - travelled to USA in 2015 for 15 days. My father died recently. Now I am planning to move to Canada along with family (wife & 2 kids). So there is a 7.5 year gap since I last visited Canada.

What are the chances for getting PRTD on H&C grounds in India? If PRTD is rejected then can I use the land border crossing?
As I have a B1 visa, is it better to use the land border crossing? Any documents needed for land border crossing? What chances of getting reported? When can I apply for wife & kids - PR or visitor visa?

Let me know what you decide finally..as my case is similar..
Did u get inside Canada thru prtd or land border

 

[canuck78]

If I enter without being reported, then I can stay for 2 years to meet RO. Only thing is I need to be able to bring my family to Canada on visitor visa.

If you have already been stopped twice before there is a really high likelihood you will be stopped and reported.

 

[qureishi]

Dear Experts,
I need guidance in choosing between PRTD on H&C grounds vs land border crossing into Canada.

I got PR in 2005 and moved to Canada in Nov 2008. I got a SIN, Drivers License, Health card. I opened a corporation and started working as consultant. I returned to home country in Sep 2009 due to father’s ill health. As I am his only child, I had to take care of him.

Total time in Canada - 11 months

I started working in home country India. I got married in 2013 and now have 2 kids. I did a full time MBA and continued job in home country. I got USA B1 visa - travelled to USA in 2015 for 15 days. My father died recently. Now I am planning to move to Canada along with family (wife & 2 kids). So there is a 7.5 year gap since I last visited Canada.

What are the chances for getting PRTD on H&C grounds in India? If PRTD is rejected then can I use the land border crossing?
As I have a B1 visa, is it better to use the land border crossing? Any documents needed for land border crossing? What chances of getting reported? When can I apply for wife & kids - PR or visitor visa?

why you were reported by 2nd officer in 2008 , it will still less than 3 years outside Canada ?