PRTD on H&C, Job opportunity available

[dpenabill]

Received email letter response today, PRTD request declined with reason (1) No compliance of RO in last 5 years and (2) H&C Ground are not sufficient to consider. Option given to file Appeal within 60 days. Please advise whether to opt hearing by reaching within Canada with fresh PRTD application after filing appeal? Do suggest Immigration lawyer's name/detail with time frame, cost and probability of success.

I do not have lawyer-referral information. But can say the odds of successfully appealing are probably better if you can find and retain the assistance of a good Canadian immigration lawyer.

If you intend to appeal, filing that is not complicated and should be done without waiting for help from a lawyer. Absolutely imperative to file the appeal on time.

Probability of success is very difficult to assess even when all of the relevant factors are clearly known. To have even a vague, general idea if there is much of a chance of success, depends in large part on the number of days IN Canada within the previous five years PLUS reasons why you did not return to Canada sooner.

As @canuck78 referenced, obtaining a PR TD pending an appeal almost always depends on whether you were physically IN Canada within the previous year. This would not be a "fresh" PR TD application; it is a special TD specifically to allow a PR to be in Canada pending the appeal, enabling the PR to attend an appeal hearing; and, again, this is routinely granted if the PR has been IN Canada within the previous year, and otherwise not.

Since your PRTD has been denied, you are no longer a PR!

Time wise: Not yet. Not for a PR TD denied on grounds the PR failed to comply with the Residency Obligation.

Decision denying PR TD for RO breach does not take effect for sixty days, the time period during which the PR has a right of appeal.

If an appeal is timely filed, PR status continues PENDING the outcome of the appeal.

Thus, for example, within this sixty day window, or pending an appeal, they can still come to Canada and are entitled to entry into Canada. This can be done either:

-- applying for a special TD, which allows a PR to come to Canada pending an appeal; such TD is routinely issued to a PR who has been in Canada within the previous year; for a PR who has not been in Canada within the previous year, application for the special TD is typically denied but might be granted, noting I do not know the factors for getting a TD in this latter situation​

​

-- traveling via the U.S. for those who have U.S. status allowing this​

Of course it is better to come and stay in Canada pending an appeal, if possible.

-- if the PR TD is denied, that is a decision terminating your PR status, so you would need to appeal that in order to have a chance to save your PR status; you will be given 60 days to make that appeal (and this applies even if you manage to travel to Canada via the U.S. and are allowed into Canada . . . if the PR TD has been or is denied, that terminates your status unless you appeal and win the appeal)

Sorry that my language there (you are obviously quoting a post of mine) was probably a little confusing. The decision denying the PR TD is the decision that terminates PR status, but of course PR status is not terminated unless and until the decision takes effect. It does not take effect immediately. It does not take effect so long as there is a right of appeal. Thus, it does not take effect for at least sixty days, the time within which there is a right of appeal, and will not take effect if there is an appeal for as long as the appeal is pending.

If, of course, the decision is set aside on appeal, it never takes effect.

Going back to what you quoted from me: " . . . if the PR TD has been or is denied, that terminates your status unless you appeal and win the appeal." (Emphasis added to the conditional "unless.") Still true, but not immediate.

 

[Ponga]

Sorry that my language there (you are obviously quoting a post of mine) was probably a little confusing. The decision denying the PR TD is the decision that terminates PR status, but of course PR status is not terminated unless and until the decision takes effect. It does not take effect immediately. It does not take effect so long as there is a right of appeal. Thus, it does not take effect for at least sixty days, the time within which there is a right of appeal, and will not take effect if there is an appeal for as long as the appeal is pending.

If, of course, the decision is set aside on appeal, it never takes effect.

Going back to what you quoted from me: " . . . if the PR TD has been or is denied, that terminates your status unless you appeal and win the appeal." (Emphasis added to the conditional "unless.") Still true, but not immediate.

Thanks for clarifying. I also found corroborating info, here:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/new-immigrants/pr-card/understand-pr-status/am-i-pr.html

If we refuse your PRTD application, we will send you a letter explaining why. We will also explain your other options for travelling to Canada. You will have 60 days to appeal our decision. The letter will explain how to make an appeal.


If you decide to appeal, you will keep your PR status until a decision is made on your appeal. You can’t apply for another travel document while you wait for an appeal decision. If you don’t appeal, you will lose your PR status after the 60-day appeal period is over.


After you lose your status, you can apply for an eTA or visa to come to Canada.
---

 

[Canada@2023]

You’ve been asked a couple of times . In the LAST five years how much time have you been physically in Canada, and what is your H&C reason(s) ?
Besides the mentioned job offer , what other connections to Canada do you have ? Aside from an expired PR card ?
As mentioned do you have a visa to enter the USA to enter Canada via a land border ? If you don’t, current wait times for a USA B1/2 interview for example in Mumbai is 589 days, if India is your country . New Delhi , 489 days.

* If you think those wait times are long . Current wait times in Toronto for a B1/2 non immigrant visa is 733 days

(1) USA Visa- I have B1/B2 twice with dozens of travel history, Recently expired, USA Data base is showing my track record so can hope for faster ?
(2) Connection to Canada- One of my Children is University student and living in Canada from 4 months with PRTD approved as RC-1 on H&C ground.
(3) RO Criteria- Not visited to Canada in Last 365 days or prior 5 years.
(4) H&C Grounds- Medical grounds of in laws (Old age parents of spouse) and litigation was H&C grounds to impact mentally and financially.

 

[scylla]

(1) USA Visa- I have B1/B2 twice with dozens of travel history, Recently expired, USA Data base is showing my track record so can hope for faster ?
(2) Connection to Canada- One of my Children is University student and living in Canada from 4 months with PRTD approved as RC-1 on H&C ground.
(3) RO Criteria- Not visited to Canada in Last 365 days or prior 5 years.
(4) H&C Grounds- Medical grounds of in laws (Old age parents of spouse) and litigation was H&C grounds to impact mentally and financially.

So to be clear, you haven't been in Canada for even one day in the last five years. Is that right?

When did you last live in Canada?

 

[Canada@2023]

So to be clear, you haven't been in Canada for even one day in the last five years. Is that right?

When did you last live in Canada?

RO Criteria is constraint and before applying PRTD, I had taken view of IRCC via web form with mention of all the facts in 2022. Was in Canada on work permit during 2005 to 2009. As a PR during 2010 to 2014 (first PR card duration complied). Not connected to IRCC during 2015 to 2021 (with H&C requested). In this forum's thread link, I've seen IAD judgements, not only past non compliance of RO but future impact of Minor kid was also considered in many cases and continuous Link/Tie Up with Canada, Which I have maintained as an active member of professional body and with Consultancy to Canadian entities throughout, Active Bank account, admission of one children in Canada etc. Matter is "Book Rule" of RO non compliance to strictly follow to deny versus Consideration of overall facts and Intent to relocate with visible proactive evidence.

 

[scylla]

RO Criteria is constraint and before applying PRTD, I had taken view of IRCC via web form with mention of all the facts in 2022. Was in Canada on work permit during 2005 to 2009. As a PR during 2010 to 2014 (first PR card duration complied). Not connected to IRCC during 2015 to 2021 (with H&C requested). In this forum's thread link, I've seen IAD judgements, not only past non compliance of RO but future impact of Minor kid was also considered in many cases and continuous Link/Tie Up with Canada, Which I have maintained as an active member of professional body and with Consultancy to Canadian entities throughout, Active Bank account, admission of one children in Canada etc. Matter is "Book Rule" of RO non compliance to strictly follow to deny versus Consideration of overall facts and Intent to relocate with visible proactive evidence.

I'm not sure I understand what you've posted. Anyway, it sounds like you've been outside of Canada since 2014 or 2015. Agreed that IRCC will take links to Canada, best interests of children, and other factors into consideration - but it is critical to explain what factors forced to you be outside of Canada. Hopefully you also submitted evidence of what prevented you from returning to Canada to meet RO. Good luck and let us know the outcome once you hear it.

 

[scylla]

Received email letter response today, PRTD request declined with reason (1) No compliance of RO in last 5 years and (2) H&C Ground are not sufficient to consider. Option given to file Appeal within 60 days. Please advise whether to opt hearing by reaching within Canada with fresh PRTD application after filing appeal? Do suggest Immigration lawyer's name/detail with time frame, cost and probability of success.

I missed this post. You have to appeal. You cannot apply for a "fresh PRTD". Appealing is your only option. No one here is going to be able to tell you the chances of success.

 

[armoured]

Agreed that IRCC will take links to Canada, best interests of children, and other factors into consideration - but it is critical to explain what factors forced to you be outside of Canada. Hopefully you also submitted evidence of what prevented you from returning to Canada to meet RO.

To add a bit for the benefit of @Canada@2023 - since may not be sufficiently clear:
-the existence of various h&c reasons is not always a sufficient condition to grant the h&c relief. They weigh these factors against other aspects, like the length of absence.

Being outside Canada for 8 years plus is going to be hard to outweigh without extremely compelling reasons. Adult children in Canada are likely to be considered independent and not in need of parents' presence (like minor children would be). Ties with Canada are probably a minor factor in weighting in this context.

While there may be circumstances why someone could be considered unable to return to Canada for more than five years, they would probably be exceptional.

 

[YVR123]

I missed this post. You have to appeal. You cannot apply for a "fresh PRTD". Appealing is your only option. No one here is going to be able to tell you the chances of success.

I also missed that post. OP's only option is to appeal. If appeal failed, OP will lost his PR.
IRCC does not agree that OP has real H&C reason to stay outside of Canada for the 5 years period. The "ties" with Canada becomes secondary if there is not sufficient H&C reason to keep OP out of Canada for a prolong period of time.

 

[canuck78]

RO Criteria is constraint and before applying PRTD, I had taken view of IRCC via web form with mention of all the facts in 2022. Was in Canada on work permit during 2005 to 2009. As a PR during 2010 to 2014 (first PR card duration complied). Not connected to IRCC during 2015 to 2021 (with H&C requested). In this forum's thread link, I've seen IAD judgements, not only past non compliance of RO but future impact of Minor kid was also considered in many cases and continuous Link/Tie Up with Canada, Which I have maintained as an active member of professional body and with Consultancy to Canadian entities throughout, Active Bank account, admission of one children in Canada etc. Matter is "Book Rule" of RO non compliance to strictly follow to deny versus Consideration of overall facts and Intent to relocate with visible proactive evidence.

Do you have other minor children that re also PRs. Yes the status of minor children will be considered if you had applied for the whole family’s PRTDs. Given that the minor children have likely spent more time outside of Canada than inside of Canada they have established stronger ties outside of Canada than within. They would have grown up and attended school in their home country so returning to Canada would not be necessarily seen as a positive thing for them or that they would be negatively affected by not being able to return to Canada. If they are PRs and have not applied for a PRTD yet they can also try and apply after they turn 18 if they wish to try and relocate to Canada as an adult.

 

[Canada@2023]

Do you have other minor children that re also PRs. Yes the status of minor children will be considered if you had applied for the whole family’s PRTDs. Given that the minor children have likely spent more time outside of Canada than inside of Canada they have established stronger ties outside of Canada than within. They would have grown up and added school on their home country so returning to Canada would not be necessarily seen as a positive thing for them or that they would be negatively affected by not being able to return to Canada. If they are PRs and have not applied for a PRTD yet they can also try and apply after they turn 18 if they wish to try and relocate to Canada as an adult.

Thanks, Your replied are always to the point, well appreciated @canuck78. Second kid is Minor, PRTD was filed with family together and denied with parents. Out of 4 application together, one children is allowed as 18 plus and relocated to Canada.

 

[Canada@2023]

Thanks for all input @YVR123, @canuck78, @armoured, @scylla and Ponga. Now connected with reputed Immigration lawyer of Canada, will seek guidance for appeal with positive hope and outcome within 12 months.

 

[Tubsmagee]

It sounds like a difficult case, hopefully you let us know how it goes.

 

[Canada@2023]

I also missed that post. OP's only option is to appeal. If appeal failed, OP will lost his PR.
IRCC does not agree that OP has real H&C reason to stay outside of Canada for the 5 years period. The "ties" with Canada becomes secondary if there is not sufficient H&C reason to keep OP out of Canada for a prolong period of time.

@YVR123 and @scylla , Say for example, If the PRTD denial letter received on July 1, 2023 and decided not to opt for Appeal than for the fresh application of Tourist Visa or LMIA process for work permit/Express Entry, Can we apply immediately now or Need to start process only after completion of 60 days from original issue date of PRTD denial on RO not complied which will be July 1 plus 60 days when appeal option time will be over ?

 

[YVR123]

@YVR123 and @scylla , Say for example, If the PRTD denial letter received on July 1, 2023 and decided not to opt for Appeal than for the fresh application of Tourist Visa or LMIA process for work permit/Express Entry, Can we apply immediately now or Need to start process only after completion of 60 days from original issue date of PRTD denial on RO not complied which will be July 1 plus 60 days when appeal option time will be over ?

I don't know this specific route. You likely will need to renounce your PR first before you can apply for TRV or LMIA process.
You will likely need to wait for that application to be approved.
https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5781etoc.asp

If you renounce your permanent resident status, you will permanently change your status in Canada as of the day your application is approved by an officer.

I am not sure which way is "faster" wait for IRCC to revoke or you apply to renounce.