PRTD application while PRC renewal application is ongoing

[laratamamey]

Hello everyone,
Does anyone know what happens if I apply for a Permanent Resident Travel Document while our Permanent Resident Card renewal is ongoing?
What would happen if I get the PRTD, re-enter Canada with the PRTD and then the PRC renewal is denied? Is that possible? Should I cancel the PRC renewal application when/if I get the PRTD?
If the PRC renewal is denied while my PRTD is being processed, will they still process the PRTD? Could I still get the PRTD and re-enter Canada?

This is the background in case it's relevant, It's been a long story but I'll try my best to summarize.

• My wife, my oldest daughter (9 months old at the time) and myself became PR in March 2007.
• We have 2 daughters that are Canadian Citizens.
• We sent our PRC renewal application in October 2017.
• It has been taking very long because I met the residency requirements working for a Canadian business abroad and it seems there's a lot of scrutiny nowadays for this. The business is real and has done pretty well.
• It was more than 2 years after we sent the application (January 2020) that IRCC finally reached out and requested additional documentation as the application was referred to the local IRCC office (Vancouver). We sent the requested info and documentation in March 2020 and thought after sending this decision would come quick but then COVID-19 pandemic hit so I guess that is causing further delays
• Because of COVID-19 you can send PRTD application by email and I am about to send it today as it seems it may be the fastest option to re-enter Canada.
• I don't want to enter Canada by land through the US, I don't want to put my family through the all "moving back to Canada" when I am not certain we will enter.

I have been told that I should have returned sooner to Canada and I wish I had but I cannot change the past. My job outside in Canada was of great help in growing the business, seems it may have put our status at risk but cannot go back in time and do things differently. I am hoping IRCC considers that my employment outside Canada meets their criteria (I think it totally does) but I have also asked for hardships and well being of my children to by considered, should the agent disagrees on the employment outside Canada.

Anyone has an idea how long are the PRTD applications taking? I put date to return to Canada August 15th, I would go as soon as we get the documents
Is it actually a good idea to apply for the PRTD?
Should I cancel the PRC application if I get the PRTD?

Thanks for reading, it's been a crazy time, over 2 and half years of uncertainty for something I thought it was just a quick process (like the first time time we renewed our cards), checking the status online pretty much on a daily basis.

 

[scylla]

Hello everyone,
Does anyone know what happens if I apply for a Permanent Resident Travel Document while our Permanent Resident Card renewal is ongoing?
What would happen if I get the PRTD, re-enter Canada with the PRTD and then the PRC renewal is denied? Is that possible? Should I cancel the PRC renewal application when/if I get the PRTD?
If the PRC renewal is denied while my PRTD is being processed, will they still process the PRTD? Could I still get the PRTD and re-enter Canada?

This is the background in case it's relevant, It's been a long story but I'll try my best to summarize.

• My wife, my oldest daughter (9 months old at the time) and myself became PR in March 2007.
• We have 2 daughters that are Canadian Citizens.
• We sent our PRC renewal application in October 2017.
• It has been taking very long because I met the residency requirements working for a Canadian business abroad and it seems there's a lot of scrutiny nowadays for this. The business is real and has done pretty well.
• It was more than 2 years after we sent the application (January 2020) that IRCC finally reached out and requested additional documentation as the application was referred to the local IRCC office (Vancouver). We sent the requested info and documentation in March 2020 and thought after sending this decision would come quick but then COVID-19 pandemic hit so I guess that is causing further delays
• Because of COVID-19 you can send PRTD application by email and I am about to send it today as it seems it may be the fastest option to re-enter Canada.
• I don't want to enter Canada by land through the US, I don't want to put my family through the all "moving back to Canada" when I am not certain we will enter.

I have been told that I should have returned sooner to Canada and I wish I had but I cannot change the past. My job outside in Canada was of great help in growing the business, seems it may have put our status at risk but cannot go back in time and do things differently. I am hoping IRCC considers that my employment outside Canada meets their criteria (I think it totally does) but I have also asked for hardships and well being of my children to by considered, should the agent disagrees on the employment outside Canada.

Anyone has an idea how long are the PRTD applications taking? I put date to return to Canada August 15th, I would go as soon as we get the documents
Is it actually a good idea to apply for the PRTD?
Should I cancel the PRC application if I get the PRTD?

Thanks for reading, it's been a crazy time, over 2 and half years of uncertainty for something I thought it was just a quick process (like the first time time we renewed our cards), checking the status online pretty much on a daily basis.

The chances of getting a PRTD approved are likely going to be very low in your case. When was the last time you were in Canada?

In terms of being able to count the time you spent outside of Canada towards PR, you don't say when you left and what the circumstances were. To be able to count your time outside of Canada towards PR, you must have first been hired by the Canadian company for a role inside of Canada - and then transferred to a role outside of Canada at a later date (i.e. a number of months or a number of years later). The role outside of Canada must be temporary and you must be able to demonstrate that you will be returning to Canada to work for that company in Canada again once you are done with the temporary role outside of Canada. As long as you can demonstrate all of that, you should be in good shape.

 

[scylla]

Hello everyone,
Does anyone know what happens if I apply for a Permanent Resident Travel Document while our Permanent Resident Card renewal is ongoing?
What would happen if I get the PRTD, re-enter Canada with the PRTD and then the PRC renewal is denied? Is that possible? Should I cancel the PRC renewal application when/if I get the PRTD?
If the PRC renewal is denied while my PRTD is being processed, will they still process the PRTD? Could I still get the PRTD and re-enter Canada?

This is the background in case it's relevant, It's been a long story but I'll try my best to summarize.

• My wife, my oldest daughter (9 months old at the time) and myself became PR in March 2007.
• We have 2 daughters that are Canadian Citizens.
• We sent our PRC renewal application in October 2017.
• It has been taking very long because I met the residency requirements working for a Canadian business abroad and it seems there's a lot of scrutiny nowadays for this. The business is real and has done pretty well.
• It was more than 2 years after we sent the application (January 2020) that IRCC finally reached out and requested additional documentation as the application was referred to the local IRCC office (Vancouver). We sent the requested info and documentation in March 2020 and thought after sending this decision would come quick but then COVID-19 pandemic hit so I guess that is causing further delays
• Because of COVID-19 you can send PRTD application by email and I am about to send it today as it seems it may be the fastest option to re-enter Canada.
• I don't want to enter Canada by land through the US, I don't want to put my family through the all "moving back to Canada" when I am not certain we will enter.

I have been told that I should have returned sooner to Canada and I wish I had but I cannot change the past. My job outside in Canada was of great help in growing the business, seems it may have put our status at risk but cannot go back in time and do things differently. I am hoping IRCC considers that my employment outside Canada meets their criteria (I think it totally does) but I have also asked for hardships and well being of my children to by considered, should the agent disagrees on the employment outside Canada.

Anyone has an idea how long are the PRTD applications taking? I put date to return to Canada August 15th, I would go as soon as we get the documents
Is it actually a good idea to apply for the PRTD?
Should I cancel the PRC application if I get the PRTD?

Thanks for reading, it's been a crazy time, over 2 and half years of uncertainty for something I thought it was just a quick process (like the first time time we renewed our cards), checking the status online pretty much on a daily basis.

Just to add two more things...

I would definitely not withdraw your PR card renewal application.

I would recommend ordering your GCMS notes to see the details of your renewal. This will have more info than what you see online.

 

[laratamamey]

Thanks @scylla

Last time I was in Canada was October 2017.
I have been working for the same company since Feb 2015 and I will keep on working when I am back in Canada, I am an employee and a shareholder (17%). Technically I have been working longer than that, I started the project in 2013 as self employed and in Feb 2015 I incorporated when other parties wanted to participate in the project so I sold part of it to them.
Plan was to stay outside of Canada on this job for 1 year and move back to Canada after that year but because of the renewal application taking longer than I thought, I was always worried of trying to enter without a valid PR card and was always hoping for "1 or 2 more months" and then here we are 2.5 years later

Good advice on ordering the GCMS notes. Would you think sending the PRTD is still a good idea?

 

[scylla]

Thanks @scylla

Last time I was in Canada was October 2017.
I have been working for the same company since Feb 2015 and I will keep on working when I am back in Canada, I am an employee and a shareholder (17%). Technically I have been working longer than that, I started the project in 2013 as self employed and in Feb 2015 I incorporated when other parties wanted to participate in the project so I sold part of it to them.
Plan was to stay outside of Canada on this job for 1 year and move back to Canada after that year but because of the renewal application taking longer than I thought, I was always worried of trying to enter without a valid PR card and was always hoping for "1 or 2 more months" and then here we are 2.5 years later

Good advice on ordering the GCMS notes. Would you think sending the PRTD is still a good idea?

You can apply for the PRTD however I expect IRCC won't process the PRTD until the results of your PR card renewal application are known.

I'm a bit confused by the statement that the processing of the PR card renewal application has forced you to remain outside of Canada longer. That's not really the case. If you wanted to return to Canada after a year outside of Canada, you could have just applied for a PRTD then and would have been very easily approved provided you met the residency requirement. There wasn't anything stopping you from returning.

It does seem odd that your PR renewal application is taking so long to process. How much time did you spend physically in Canada in the five years before you applied for the renewal in 2017?

 

[laratamamey]

You can apply for the PRTD however I expect IRCC won't process the PRTD until the results of your PR card renewal application are known.

I'm a bit confused by the statement that the processing of the PR card renewal application has forced you to remain outside of Canada longer. That's not really the case. If you wanted to return to Canada after a year outside of Canada, you could have just applied for a PRTD then and would have been very easily approved provided you met the residency requirement. There wasn't anything stopping you from returning.

It does seem odd that your PR renewal application is taking so long to process. How much time did you spend physically in Canada in the five years before you applied for the renewal in 2017?

I know and should have or I could have flown to Seattle and enter by private vehicle but I didn't, I wanted certainty and thought I would get it but time kept passing week by week, month by month, seems like a mistake but if it was cannot go back in time so I am just trying to make the best decision with today's options. If I had know this was going to happen, even renouncing to PR status and reapplying for PR could have been a better option but there is no going back.

When I applied to renew I met the residency requirements by working abroad for a Canadian business, that is why it is taking longer and I knew it would but I was told (by my former representative) that "longer" meant about 6 months and not more than 30. Representative also said it was a solid application because of the business (there isn't anything funky, wrong or suspicious, it is a legitimate business that is generating good profits) but oh well, here I am in this difficult situation.

 

[scylla]

When I applied to renew I met the residency requirements by working abroad for a Canadian business, that is why it is taking longer and I knew it would but I was told (by my former representative) that "longer" meant about 6 months and not more than 30. Representative also said it was a solid application because of the business (there isn't anything funky, wrong or suspicious, it is a legitimate business that is generating good profits) but oh well, here I am in this difficult situation.

I understand that you are counting time outside of Canada. However presumably when you applied to renew your PR status in 2017 you must have had significant time spent living physically in Canada in the previous five years. How much time did you have physically in Canada within those 5 years?

The legitimacy of the business is only one factor IRCC looks at in determining if you can count the time. A good representative would know that. A very important requirement is that you must have first work for the company in Canada in a permanent role before the transfer. If IRCC doesn't think this happenend in your case, that might be a problem. If you are a part owner of this company, then you would want to demonstrate that the company was well established in Canada first (i.e. incorporated, had profits and tax returns in Canada, had sales in Canada, had employees and likely a physical office in Canada, etc.) before you were transferred to the role outside of Canada. IRCC scrutinizes situations much more closely when there is an element of self-ownership involved (as there is in your case). Presumably your representative knows you this and told you this. This is because in the past, there have been far too many people who have set up companies in Canada for the sole purpose of then moving outside of Canada and being able to count that time towards PR. I think this is why the processing time of your PR card renewal is taking longer. IRCC is checking to make sure you're not taking advantage of the system. Again, it would have been important to prove business legitimacy in Canada for the period before you moved to the role outside of Canada. Business legitimacy would be evidence of incorporation, income form Canadian sources, tax returns in Canada, employees and a physical location in Canada, etc.

 

[laratamamey]

Thanks again for the input @scylla

From what you said there are ideas that are not ideal like income from Canadian sources.

I decided not to continue with the representative in January so now I'm trying to continue as best as I can.

Following up on the document package they requested and I sent in March (on which I focused on the employment, the reason why I worked abroad, the prospect of the company, etc), I sent a follow up letter a few weeks ago asking for hardships and best interest of our kids to be considered as well (violence and COVID-19), not sure if that will help or not.

On the PRTD application I was about to send today when I decided to post here, I mention both circumstances (employment outside Canada and hardships of losing the status).

Now I'm not sure if I should send the application. After 2 years of just waiting now I want to avoid staying still waiting again but still unsure what would increase the chances of re-entering Canada which is what I care about

 

[scylla]

Thanks again for the input @scylla

From what you said there are ideas that are not ideal like income from Canadian sources.

I decided not to continue with the representative in January so now I'm trying to continue as best as I can.

Following up on the document package they requested and I sent in March (on which I focused on the employment, the reason why I worked abroad, the prospect of the company, etc), I sent a follow up letter a few weeks ago asking for hardships and best interest of our kids to be considered as well (violence and COVID-19), not sure if that will help or not.

On the PRTD application I was about to send today when I decided to post here, I mention both circumstances (employment outside Canada and hardships of losing the status).

Now I'm not sure if I should send the application. After 2 years of just waiting now I want to avoid staying still waiting again but still unsure what would increase the chances of re-entering Canada which is what I care about

If there's no or very little income from Canadian sources, I think it's going to be extremely difficult to convince IRCC this set up meets the requirements for counting your time outside of Canada. However who knows, maybe you'll get extremely lucky.

You can certainly try sending the PRTD.

If you look back through your posts from years ago, you'll see that you were advised by members of this forum that the set up you were arranging most likely wouldn't work for counting time outside of Canada. I guess you decided to move forward all the same and deal with the consequences later.

If you have 470+ points under Express Entry, then you may want to consider submitting an application to revoke your PR status and then applying from scratch.

 

[Islander216]

I feel like you would have a better chance trying to cross the border by car than applying for the PTRD to fly there.

Because at least you could enter even if they report you for not fulfilling your residency obligations, you'd still be in the country and you could try here to see what you could do.

 

[jddd]

Thanks again for the input @scylla

From what you said there are ideas that are not ideal like income from Canadian sources.

I decided not to continue with the representative in January so now I'm trying to continue as best as I can.

Following up on the document package they requested and I sent in March (on which I focused on the employment, the reason why I worked abroad, the prospect of the company, etc), I sent a follow up letter a few weeks ago asking for hardships and best interest of our kids to be considered as well (violence and COVID-19), not sure if that will help or not.

On the PRTD application I was about to send today when I decided to post here, I mention both circumstances (employment outside Canada and hardships of losing the status).

Now I'm not sure if I should send the application. After 2 years of just waiting now I want to avoid staying still waiting again but still unsure what would increase the chances of re-entering Canada which is what I care about

To add to what scylla said, if you and your family have been living outside of Canada for years by choice, I don’t see how best interests of child will be considered as H&C for you. I assume that you and your family have been safe from violence and covid-19 thus far and those 2 problems exist everywhere in the world so they are not strong H&C reasons IMO.

Good luck.

 

[laratamamey]

Thank you all

 

[canuck78]

I feel like you would have a better chance trying to cross the border by car than applying for the PTRD to fly there.

Because at least you could enter even if they report you for not fulfilling your residency obligations, you'd still be in the country and you could try here to see what you could do.

They have a non-Canadian child. Unclear whether the child has a TRV but that could lead to a long separation. Given that the process of PR card renewal has already started entering via the US won’t change the current processing.

 

[canuck78]

Thanks again for the input @scylla

From what you said there are ideas that are not ideal like income from Canadian sources.

I decided not to continue with the representative in January so now I'm trying to continue as best as I can.

Following up on the document package they requested and I sent in March (on which I focused on the employment, the reason why I worked abroad, the prospect of the company, etc), I sent a follow up letter a few weeks ago asking for hardships and best interest of our kids to be considered as well (violence and COVID-19), not sure if that will help or not.

On the PRTD application I was about to send today when I decided to post here, I mention both circumstances (employment outside Canada and hardships of losing the status).

Now I'm not sure if I should send the application. After 2 years of just waiting now I want to avoid staying still waiting again but still unsure what would increase the chances of re-entering Canada which is what I care about

When families have chosen to live abroad and have been living comfortably abroad for years the argument of best interest of the child isn’t very convincing. There are many families where one parent and the children remain in Canada while the other parent works abroad because of concerns about the children. Think you may need to prepare for the answer about your PR card before getting an answer about your PRTD. We do live in unusual times so who knows. You still have to factor in your non-Canadian child. Do they have a TRV? If you do manage to get a positive PRTD that doesn’t mean you’ll be able to remain in Canada longterm.

 

[scylla]

They have a non-Canadian child.

I don't believe that's correct. Oldest child got PR along with the parents. Other two children were born in Canada and are Canadian citizens.