Proof of Relationship - What to include, how much?

[poeticaesthetic]

Hey all,

My husband and I are getting ready to send in his PR application next week, and I would like some opinions on how to best represent our relationship with the materials requested. This is what it says in the application guide for the United States (he’s a US citizen):

If you are being sponsored by your spouse, common-law partner or conjugal partner, you must send evidence of the relationship between you and your sponsor such as wedding photos or proof that you are partners, letters between you and your sponsor, and telephone bills showing contact between you and your sponsor.

Note: Proof of your sponsor’s visits such as airline ticket coupons, boarding passes, copies of pages of
your sponsor's passport showing entry/exit stamps.

How many of these do we actually need? We don’t want to overdo it or underdo it! Here’s what we’ve got:

1. Photos (several from the wedding, a few others since)…they are all digital. I’m guessing it’s alright if we print them from my computer at home onto photo paper? How many should we include? Does it matter if they are close-up shots, if there are other people in any of the photos, etc? Does it matter if I’m grinning in every single one (I am in most, but there was the sun-in-the-eyes shot, and one or two camera-shy shots)? Should we mention anywhere (either written on the back, or on a separate sheet) where we were, who took the photo, what the date was, etc?

2. Chat logs. Again, how many should we include (or maybe ‘how many pages’ is a better question)? Should we just include relevant parts (some of them are very long)? I’m guessing they mostly want to see the I love yous and friendly chit chat? Do the chats need to have our actual names on them (or are screen names okay)? He also changed email addresses a couple times…we can explain on a separate sheet if needed. We also have some more recent chat logs from us keeping in touch via Google Chat between the phone and computer, which we could also include if it would help.

3. One letter on paper I wrote him before he came to Canada (he didn’t get a chance to write back). I’m so embarrassed to show them all these cheesy, personal things we’ve written to each other, haha!

4. Bus tickets (or ticket confirmations) from a couple visits to see each other (I have mine, hopefully we can find his), and some plane tickets from when we went to see my parents for Christmas together before we got married, but after he arrived to stay with me in Canada (these might not be relevant, since we were already together). No passport stamps between here and the US.

Miscellaneous maybes: Some congratulatory cards our immediate family sent after our wedding ceremony (not sure if this fits here), and a lease agreement for our current place, although that might be premature, considering he’s technically a visitor? I’m guessing that would be more valid for citizenship, rather than PR.

Missing: Telephone bills showing contact (we only have one phone now, his old one is out of service, and I don’t have access to the old bills online, as it was a long time ago). I’m guessing this probably doesn’t matter.


Also, on the Sponsor Questionnaire, it says: "On a separate sheet, provide additional details you believe would help to prove your relationship is genuine and continuing.” I started doing this, but what do they want to see? Should I get into our history (ie. how we met, how things progressed) or should I just stick to the present/future (ie. the fact that we've been living together for a year and a half, the things we do together, plans we have, etc)? How personal should I get here?


Thanks in advance for the input!

 

[fandv]

Hey all,

My husband and I are getting ready to send in his PR application next week, and I would like some opinions on how to best represent our relationship with the materials requested. This is what it says in the application guide for the United States (he's a US citizen):

If you are being sponsored by your spouse, common-law partner or conjugal partner, you must send evidence of the relationship between you and your sponsor such as wedding photos or proof that you are partners, letters between you and your sponsor, and telephone bills showing contact between you and your sponsor.

Note: Proof of your sponsor's visits such as airline ticket coupons, boarding passes, copies of pages of
your sponsor's passport showing entry/exit stamps.

How many of these do we actually need? We don't want to overdo it or underdo it! Here's what we've got:

1. Photos (several from the wedding, a few others since)...they are all digital. I'm guessing it's alright if we print them from my computer at home onto photo paper? How many should we include? Does it matter if they are close-up shots, if there are other people in any of the photos, etc? Does it matter if I'm grinning in every single one (I am in most, but there was the sun-in-the-eyes shot, and one or two camera-shy shots)? Should we mention anywhere (either written on the back, or on a separate sheet) where we were, who took the photo, what the date was, etc?

2. Chat logs. Again, how many should we include (or maybe ‘how many pages' is a better question)? Should we just include relevant parts (some of them are very long)? I'm guessing they mostly want to see the I love yous and friendly chit chat? Do the chats need to have our actual names on them (or are screen names okay)? He also changed email addresses a couple times...we can explain on a separate sheet if needed. We also have some more recent chat logs from us keeping in touch via Google Chat between the phone and computer, which we could also include if it would help.

3. One letter on paper I wrote him before he came to Canada (he didn't get a chance to write back). I'm so embarrassed to show them all these cheesy, personal things we've written to each other, haha!

4. Bus tickets (or ticket confirmations) from a couple visits to see each other (I have mine, hopefully we can find his), and some plane tickets from when we went to see my parents for Christmas together before we got married, but after he arrived to stay with me in Canada (these might not be relevant, since we were already together). No passport stamps between here and the US.

Miscellaneous maybes: Some congratulatory cards our immediate family sent after our wedding ceremony (not sure if this fits here), and a lease agreement for our current place, although that might be premature, considering he's technically a visitor? I'm guessing that would be more valid for citizenship, rather than PR.

Missing: Telephone bills showing contact (we only have one phone now, his old one is out of service, and I don't have access to the old bills online, as it was a long time ago). I'm guessing this probably doesn't matter.


Also, on the Sponsor Questionnaire, it says: "On a separate sheet, provide additional details you believe would help to prove your relationship is genuine and continuing.” I started doing this, but what do they want to see? Should I get into our history (ie. how we met, how things progressed) or should I just stick to the present/future (ie. the fact that we've been living together for a year and a half, the things we do together, plans we have, etc)? How personal should I get here?


Thanks in advance for the input!

The key is quality over quantity. And since your husband is from the US, he's lucky that he won't need to provide too much, unlike those coming from some certain countries.

1. Photos:

- My wife and I submitted 170 photos, but there are people whose application got approved even though they only submitted as little as 7 pics. There's no rule of thumb. If I were you (i.e.: having a US spouse), I'd probably just submit 30 to 50 pics. That should be fine I think. (I'd feel insecure submitting less than 30....)

- Yes any paper is fine, as long as the pics are clear

- Would be best to show various pics.....zoomed in, zoomed out, you and husband alone, you and husband with family, friends, relatives, wedding pics, honeymoon pics, casual pics (e.g.: in malls, parks, beaches, caves, whatever )

- Yes definitely indicate who everyone is in each pic, date each pic was taken, and place where each pic was taken. We provided those info on the back of each photo (we got our pics printed by a photo printing company), but we didn't specify who shot each pic. You can do that if you want....it won't hurt. And some people provide the pic explanations differently: they organize their pics in MS Word tables, and write the caption under each photo, and then print everything using a home printer. That works fine too.


2. Chat logs:

- No rule of thumb too, but provide a few from each month, starting from when you guys got to know each other, up till now. Our application had almost 1000 pages (weighing 6,4 kilograms in total) as we provided tons of communication evidence: emails, Skype, MSN Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, screen captures of Skype video chats, BBMs, written letters, wedding invitation, etc. Ours was an overkill, admittedly, because my wife applied through one of the hardest visa offices in the world (Singapore), but you don't need to go crazy like we did.

- Screen names are okay

- Don't show only the I love you and friendly chit chats. Show fight chats too, to show that you're a real couple who sometimes argue/fight too

3. Yes definitely show that embarrassing letter paper too. Don't be embarrassed as the visa officers must've seen embarrassing relationship proofs...they're probably immune already

4. "Should I get into our history (ie. how we met, how things progressed) or should I just stick to the present/future (ie. the fact that we've been living together for a year and a half, the things we do together, plans we have, etc)? How personal should I get here?"

===> Definitely include everything from the beginning.....how you both met, how you both formed the initial friendship, how you started to fall in love with each other, how the marriage plan came about, how often you communicate with each other and using what means. Which places you've been to together. How often/when/where each of you have seen each other's friends and relatives. Explain how/why you think you both are compatible with each other. Discuss about the honeymoon too (if any), how you are continuing to maintain contact after the wedding and honeymoon, your future plans, children plans, housing plans, bla bla bla. No need to get too personal though (for example: no need to specify how often you guys make love, hahaha).

Take a look at this to see what someone did (impressive!)

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/how-i-organized-our-applcation-and-a-summary-of-all-helpful-tips-i-have-learned-t92449.0.html

 

[wowsers]

Since you are married (sounds as if the wedding was some time ago) you are already more than half way there: it is easier to prove a married status than a common law status. So no need to overdo the proof. My views, based on my own experience as a common law applicant is:
Photos. I only had 17 photos showing us both, because only one of us at a time holds the camera and they were the only photos I could find. Some of the 17 were photos of the same event, so in reality there were fewer than 17. I had to print some of them from paper copies and some of the prints were very poor; but no one objected. I prepared a numbered list saying as much as I could about each photo (which I also numbered) , giving as precise a date as I could, for example. 'taken by X at a Christmas dinner at our home on Christmas Day 19.... I am there in the foreground cutting the turkey, she is bringing in the vegetables, the others are our friends (naming them)'. Something like that would be enough, as it was in my case.
Chat logs. I had lots of emails on my computer, but only covering dates when she was in Canada visiting her family and since it only required the effort of printing them I included most of them. There was as I recollect a bundle of emails about half an inch thick. I did not delete anything in them. I included a few emails between myself and third parties referring to our relationship and highlighted the passages which were relevant. I am unfamiliar with Google chat and so cannot help you concerning that. But dont go overboard! If you have lots and lots of communications, make a selection.
Letter. Include it. The cheesier the better! No one is likely to ask you about it; so no need for embarrassment.
Bus tickets. I found a few airline tickets/boarding passes and included those; but again dont go overboard. Their probative value is ususally minimal: they only prove the travel. I would not bother to search the archives in the attic!
Miscellaneous The lease agreement is worth copying and I would also include the congratulation cards. I did not have any lease agreement (I alone own the house) and I had no congratulation cards to produce since there was no event deserving congratulation. No issue was raised about it. Incidentally CIC specifically mention joint bank accounts and credit cards; so if you have any, produce evidence of them. But do not worry if you do not have any: I did not, and no one raised any issue about it.
Sponsor questionnaire. I set out the history of our relationship, but if we had been married my account would have been shorter. You do not need to write a thesis. Just explain in broad outline how you met, how the relationshop developed between then and the wedding, how events have progressed since the wedding and what your present intentions are if PR is granted. One side of an A4 sheet should be more than enough.
Hope that helps! Everone's circumstances differ. I would say that the secret is to keep it relevant and, from the point of view of a Visa Officer, easy to read. Since writing the above I have read Fandv's reply. I do not disagree with anything in that, but since I have already replied at length you may as well have the benefit of my reply as well!

 

[commonlawsponsor]

I think 25-30 pics is more than enough. Follow the tips other people said regarding labeling etc.

I wouldn't overdo the chat logs thing - you are married, from the US, etc. I included screenshots of short, relevant conversations - maybe 12 or 15. I also included one screenshot of all our Skype convos pasted into Word. I just showed the top corner, showing there are over a 1000 pages of conversation.

Don't worry about the phone bills, we didn't send any either.

Send the lease, don't worry that he is just a visitor.

I would maybe send a copy of a card or two, but I wouldn't overdo it.

Your application doesn't need to be huge.

One good tip we received was when you are done, write the page number by hand in the bottom corner of each page - so all application forms, proof, etc. Then either photocopy it or scan it. (Sometimes they lose things and then you have a copy on hand in case you start to doubt if you included this or that.

So I know our application was less than 150 pages - total. You have an easy visa office, you're married, so provide quality information but don't think you have to go crazy. Some people have read in their GCMS notes - that their chat logs etc. end up getting shredded by the VO.

 

[hopefulpoet]

My husband just received COPR--he is a U.S. citizen too, and I'm his sponsor. We've been married for almost 8 years, and we have a daughter together, so I didn't feel like we had to provide a lot of proof, but this is what I included:

About 50 photos of us in various stages of our relationship in different locations, including our wedding, and the birth of our baby. I wrote a number on the back of each photo, then included a separate sheet of paper with the corresponding numbers, listing who/what/where/when for each photo.

The invitation and program for our wedding.

A short write-up of the history of our relationship and why we want to settle down in Canada. All of the details about our relationship (when/where we met, etc) were already in our application, so I didn't feel like much extra explanation was necessary.

Copies of past leases for apartments we've lived in.

And that's it. Nothing was super personal. We had no chats, phone logs, letters to include because we've always lived together since we've been married.

Following my SA, my husband was asked to send in additional information showing that I (his sponsor) was truly settling down in Canada. So then I sent my letter of employment, bank statements from our joint account here, a copy of our lease, and copies of my pay stubs. I scanned and emailed them in, so that was no big deal. And soon after that, my husband received COPR.

 

[truesmile]

We're another case of NOT over-doing it. My wife was not from a visa-exempt country either, and our "story" fit on the form (only three sentences long).

 

[keesio]

US citizens get the most leeway in regards to relationship evidence proof so you don't have to go overboard, especially if you don't have any red flags. An as someone already mentioned, just focus on quality over quantity.

-For my wife, we sent ~50 photos of key events (engagement, wedding/reception, honeymoon, extended family gatherings on both sides, big vacation trips, etc). They were digital and we printed them as 4x6 photos. Some people simply color print them all on standard paper with several photos per page and that has been fine also. Again, you don't need to go overboard here. Other Americans have simply sent 10 (or less) photos and they didn't have any issue.

-We didn't bother to send any chat logs or e-mails. I think chat logs are the weakest of the evidence you can provide so only send it if you don't have enough other supporting evidence.

-Send in that cheesy personal hand written letter! We sent in something similar (valentine's day cards to each other). But note that you may not get your letter back so you may want to send in a copy or at least keep a copy for yourself.

-bus tickets, airline boarding passes that show you traveled together and visited each other is good.

-other misc. items that we sent in is:
--the invoice we got from the reception hall where we had our wedding reception
--a letter we got from the beach resort where we had our honeymoon congratulating us on our marriage
--call logs from my mobile provider that show me calling her a lot (and vice versa).

 

[poeticaesthetic]

Oh my gosh, thanks so much for all these replies everyone! It is exceedingly helpful.

We do not have very many photos unfortunately, as we're not really the photo-taking types (and both tend to dislike having our picture taken! haha). We have been married less than two years and don't have any together from before the wedding because most of our relationship was long distance. Most of them are from our wedding ceremony; I chose the best ones but I could include extras if it would help (ours was a simple civil ceremony with two witnesses at the home we were living at when he first came to Canada, though we do plan to have another celebration in the future). We also did not take any honeymoon pics, we were having so much fun (and it was very brief--we just went to a weekend-long music festival on Vancouver island and called that our honemoon! It was a blast. We might have taken more photos if I'd had somewhere to charge my phone in the woods). There have only been a few since, mostly taken by our parents (who insisted). I was thinking I might have one of our good friends come by and take a few of us before we send in the application, but I'm not sure how much it would help (I don't want it to seem...contrived? If we put the dates on them, they'll know they were taken right before the app was sent in). All in all, we currently have less than 20 picked out, and 12 of them are from the wedding (really)!

We have way too many chats. Some of them, admittedly, I wouldn't want the government to see, given some of the subject matter, haha! But I'm sure we could sift out some really good ones.

I will include the embarrassing letter It's a good one. It even has a lipstick stain on it, and a hand-drawn strawberry coloured with real strawberry juice *embarrassed*...we will send a copy and keep the original.

I only technically visited him once since we started seeing each other (though we were friends years before, there's no record of the visits). We then traveled back to Canada together at the end of that visit. It was via Greyhound, who collected the actual tickets, so all I have is email confirmations of the trip (I'm hoping his Mom still has a copy of his in her email! It was a long time ago). I hope that's good enough.

I seem to have misplaced the lease somehow...I believe both our names are on it. I'll find it! We also lived together in the place we married in, but I was already living there when he arrived in Canada, so he's not on that lease.

I can send copies of the congratulatory wedding cards as well (we might like to keep the originals). I'll see if there's anything else I can include. I do have a copy of our wedding vows, if that would help?

I'm a little intimidated by some of these impressive-sounding applications...they look huge, and really organized. We will organize ours as best we can but we are hoping to send it in very soon (we are currently waiting on a response for his recently-requested renewal of visitor status, after we failed to get the application submitted within the previous 14-month extension he requested specifically for that purpose, due to various delays/health problems. It may not be an issue, but we want to get it in as soon as possible just in case they decide to deny him the extension). I hope it's not too modest.

I'm just curious--what counts as a red flag? He was detained once, years ago, for 4 days, for not completing his sheriff's labour on time after being charged with a misdemeanor (house party he was DJing, drugs were found on the premises, but not on him). I believe he also has one other minor charge on his record. That all got cleared up many years ago, when he was younger. I keep hoping this is not an issue. There's nothing on his FBI record. We also got married fairly quickly after commencing our friendship/relationship after losing touch for many years, there were very few visits in between, our families weren't at our wedding ceremony (though we have met each other's families many times, and like I said, we're planning to have another ceremony), we have different backgrounds (I went to school and earned two degrees in writing, he dropped out of art school and traveled). Oh, and we've both been unemployed for years (partially because of the schooling/travel/moving, partially due to depression/bipolar/who knows for sure but we're dealing with it pretty well, so we're hesitant to even mention it), though we do have solid proof of financial support from our families and plenty of plans to support ourselves and each other in the near future (he's currently crafting VERY nice silver jewelry, for one, and we have plans to start a business). I'm nervous. Will proving our genuine connection and explaining our goals be enough? Do you think any of these things will be an issue?

 

[keesio]

20 photos is fine. And the fact that most are from the wedding is not a bad thing... it is probably the among the most important photos you can send. I remember one person on this forum who sent in like 8 photos and had a small informal wedding ceremony (in the living room of a friend's home).

The congratulatory wedding cards are a good idea too.

Some red flags draw doubt about the genuineness of your relationship.... usually a suspicion of a "marriage of convenience", basically marrying someone to get residency in a country. Because these types of marriages are uncommon with Canadian/American couples, you really need some huge, glaring red flags to draw suspicion. Some examples of red flags are: huge age gaps between the couple (like 20+ years at least), getting married the first time you meet in person, never meeting each others families, big differences in education/finances and so on. But even with those "flags", applicants from the US often still get the benefit of the doubt on those. I think your case is fine here.

Other red flags are issues from trouble with the law. You mentioned your husband was charged with a misdemeanor in the past. I'm not sure if that will be a big issue. If his FBI record is clean, then perhaps it is fine but I'm not sure. The more serious issues would deny him entry to Canada but the fact that he has been able to enter is a good sign. Hopefully others can comment.

 

[poeticaesthetic]

20 photos is fine. And the fact that most are from the wedding is not a bad thing... it is probably the among the most important photos you can send. I remember one person on this forum who sent in like 8 photos and had a small informal wedding ceremony (in the living room of a friend's home).

The congratulatory wedding cards are a good idea too.

Some red flags draw doubt about the genuineness of your relationship.... usually a suspicion of a "marriage of convenience", basically marrying someone to get residency in a country. Because these types of marriages are uncommon with Canadian/American couples, you really need some huge, glaring red flags to draw suspicion. Some examples of red flags are: huge age gaps between the couple (like 20+ years at least), getting married the first time you meet in person, never meeting each others families, big differences in education/finances and so on. But even with those "flags", applicants from the US often still get the benefit of the doubt on those. I think your case is fine here.

Other red flags are issues from trouble with the law. You mentioned your husband was charged with a misdemeanor in the past. I'm not sure if that will be a big issue. If his FBI record is clean, then perhaps it is fine but I'm not sure. The more serious issues would deny him entry to Canada but the fact that he has been able to enter is a good sign. Hopefully others can comment.

Thank you very much! I hope you're right about it not being an issue. I suppose I can ask more in a separate thread, I may get more replies that way.

Looks like we may be sending this in later after all...the timing of the medical exam seems to not be working out with the police certificate expiration...so I think we'll need to request a new one before we proceed Hopefully they won't deny his extension over our delays while we're waiting to receive it. At the very least, it will give us time to take more pictures

 

[mcbeth]

Hmm, I seem to have missed this thread. Here's what I included in my application; Photos - less than 12 (might have even been less than 10 but they were photo lab prints for that extra mile), some but not all boarding passes and passport stamps (what was sent was mismatched), marriage certificate, a telegram from my mother to the hotel in Barbados congratulating us, no receipts of money sent to her, no phone records as there aren't any, and not a single email or Skype conversation.

The boarding pass/passport stamp issue arose from my wife's somewhat weak English, she simply misunderstood what I was asking her for, and the email/Skype was because I didn't want to send them anything "blue" in nature (and in the end I was so tired of documents I forgot to print just a few emails). Our answers to the questions regarding how we met, have we met each others families, etc… were all short and sweet fitting within the given space, not once did we use an extra page. Our entire package, sponsor and PR papers and supporting, fit in one prepaid postal envelope. It makes me wonder if going overboard is pointless as it just creates more work, and thus delays, for the agents to go through all the applications they receive.

My wife is in Russia, which can be one of the more difficult countries to deal with, and I was approved as her sponsor in less than a week after processing began. She became concerned that I sent too little evidence and insisted that I send more, so I phoned CIC and asked what to do about this at this stage of my process. I was told that being approved as a sponsor was already a major positive and that the next stage was mostly background checks, and that extra documents might not be necessary, but wouldn't hurt either. I decided not to send more and just wait for a request for more, said request still hasn't come and her PR application was forwarded to Warsaw from Moscow for faster processing.

TLR version; make sure your evidence is genuine and convincing and you shouldn't have a problem with too much or too little. Especially with a USA application.

 

[poeticaesthetic]

Hmm, I seem to have missed this thread. Here's what I included in my application; Photos - less than 12 (might have even been less than 10 but they were photo lab prints for that extra mile), some but not all boarding passes and passport stamps (what was sent was mismatched), marriage certificate, a telegram from my mother to the hotel in Barbados congratulating us, no receipts of money sent to her, no phone records as there aren't any, and not a single email or Skype conversation.

The boarding pass/passport stamp issue arose from my wife's somewhat weak English, she simply misunderstood what I was asking her for, and the email/Skype was because I didn't want to send them anything "blue" in nature (and in the end I was so tired of documents I forgot to print just a few emails). Our answers to the questions regarding how we met, have we met each others families, etc... were all short and sweet fitting within the given space, not once did we use an extra page. Our entire package, sponsor and PR papers and supporting, fit in one prepaid postal envelope. It makes me wonder if going overboard is pointless as it just creates more work, and thus delays, for the agents to go through all the applications they receive.

My wife is in Russia, which can be one of the more difficult countries to deal with, and I was approved as her sponsor in less than a week after processing began. She became concerned that I sent too little evidence and insisted that I send more, so I phoned CIC and asked what to do about this at this stage of my process. I was told that being approved as a sponsor was already a major positive and that the next stage was mostly background checks, and that extra documents might not be necessary, but wouldn't hurt either. I decided not to send more and just wait for a request for more, said request still hasn't come and her PR application was forwarded to Warsaw from Moscow for faster processing.

TLR version; make sure your evidence is genuine and convincing and you shouldn't have a problem with too much or too little. Especially with a USA application.

Thanks for your input! It's nice to know that it's not necessary to go overboard. I would think CIC would get annoyed with huge stacks of "proof" and perhaps even find it suspicious. But I understand why people feel the need to include a lot--there's a lot on the line, after all! I think we'll take the middle road ourselves

 

[Crayon7]

hi I am just about to sort out photos for our application and we are almost ready to go... my question is I ordered prints for visa purpose as I was ordering photo prints anyway, how do I attach them? Do I glue them on a4 paper with description who/where/what is happening?

I am worried now as I see most people print digital ones and my printer cant handle it lol!

 

[iiiEllie]

hi I am just about to sort out photos for our application and we are almost ready to go... my question is I ordered prints for visa purpose as I was ordering photo prints anyway, how do I attach them? Do I glue them on a4 paper with description who/where/what is happening?

I am worried now as I see most people print digital ones and my printer cant handle it lol!

We put photos from different months/events in to sandwich bags with a stick on label on the front with the date, location, event, and who was in the photos on each bag. Then put them all in the proof of relationship folder.

 

[Crayon7]

Thanks