PR expiring in 2012 & must move to Canada before 2010?

[pracalus]

Hi all,

I have couple of questions regarding the PR renewal requirements, Could you please let me know your thoughts

I got my PR in 2007 April and valid till April 2012. By this april 26th, i will complete 3 years and will have 2 years left. I was under impression that i have to move to Canada on/before April 2010 to get renewal for next 5 years in 2012 but after reading few posts in this forum, i am assuming
i can even go to the Canada in 2011 ending or in 2012 before PR expires and continue stay for 2 years to get the PR renewal. If this is correct then how does CIC consider this period like suppose if i go to Canada in 2012(PR expires in 2012) and stay till 2014 and file for PR renewal. This 2012 to 2014 stay will be treated as legal or do i need to file something to cover this period. Please share your thoughts, it would help me a lot.

Note: MY green card process is at last stage in US and doesn't want to loose this process and also keep PR status.

Sorry for big email

thanks
Ram

 

[pracalus]

Hi Experts,

Can you please respond to my above post.

Appreciate your thoughts/advise/suggestions

thanks
Ram..

 

[toby]

Ram:

This topic has been discussed elsewhere, so a bit of searching should answer your questions.

From what I recall, yes, if you can get into Canada, then accumulate your quota of 730 days before renewing your PR. The trick is to get into Canada. If the Border Officer does a rough calculation, and figures out that you will not have 730 days in Canada by the expiry of your PR, he may not let you in!

Even if you get into Canada, between the date your PR card expires and the date you accumulate 730 days in Canada, what happens if you get stopped (for a speeding ticket, for example), and the police officer notes that your PR card is invalid? I don't know if this is a reasonable possibility, but if it is, you would then be expelled from Canada.

These are issues to explore.

 

[Alabaman]

Even if you get into Canada, between the date your PR card expires and the date you accumulate 730 days in Canada, what happens if you get stopped (for a speeding ticket, for example), and the police officer notes that your PR card is invalid? I don't know if this is a reasonable possibility, but if it is, you would then be expelled from Canada.

These are issues to explore.

I don't think this is a reasonable possibility. I would guess a police officer would be more interested in your drivers license.

 

[pracalus]

How would they treat the period between PR expire date and 2 years after PR expire date.
Ex: PR expire in 2012
Movied to Canada in 2011 and stayed till 2013 to meet the 2yrs requirement
so how do they treate the 2012 to 2013 period as, It will not counted as illegal?

thanks
Ram

 

[Leon]

How would they treat the period between PR expire date and 2 years after PR expire date.
Ex: PR expire in 2012
Movied to Canada in 2011 and stayed till 2013 to meet the 2yrs requirement
so how do they treate the 2012 to 2013 period as, It will not counted as illegal?

thanks
Ram

No, you would still be a PR but with an expired PR card. Your PR status can not be questioned while you are in Canada unless you apply to renew your PR card. Unless you are travelling, you don't really need the PR card. Possibly if you are moving to a new province and need to apply for a health card or drivers license but that's about it.

 

[pracalus]

Thank you Leon for the reply.

 

[pracalus]

Hi,

If i apply driving license in 2011 ending with PR expires in 2012 april, What would be the expire date on DL,
on what basis they issue the DL like is it depends on the PR/any visa expire date or just they give couple of years?

 

[Leon]

The drivers license is not based on the validity of your PR card but in some provinces, you may need to show your PR card to get the license issued. This is because some provinces will only issue a drivers license to people who are residing in the province in which case you need to provide proof such as utility bills mailed to your address and proof of legal status in Canada like a PR card or a work permit. Some provinces like Ontario do not care what your status there is and will give you a drivers license whether you are living there or not. Once you actually have a Canadian drivers license and need to renew, I don't think they would ask you for a PR card again. If they did, you can show them your expired one and tell them that you are waiting for the new one and it will probably be fine.

 

[AUH Process]

No, you would still be a PR but with an expired PR card. Your PR status can not be questioned while you are in Canada unless you apply to renew your PR card. Unless you are travelling, you don't really need the PR card. Possibly if you are moving to a new province and need to apply for a health card or drivers license but that's about it.

Does this mean no chance of going on holiday just before expiry of PR card??....what about the provision in the laws that ---you can be out of the country and it will count toward the 730 day requirement if you are employed on a full time basis by a Canadian business?---

 

[Leon]

Does this mean no chance of going on holiday just before expiry of PR card??....what about the provision in the laws that ---you can be out of the country and it will count toward the 730 day requirement if you are employed on a full time basis by a Canadian business?---

If you know you are going on holiday around the time your PR card is expiring, you can apply for a new one well in advance and include a cover letter stating your travel dates to make sure you get the new one in time. If you find yourself with an expired PR card outside Canada, you can get a PR travel document at a Canadian embassy which would allow you to travel back to Canada. Of course this will only work if you actually meet the residency requirements and will be granted a travel document / new PR card.

I have heard that working for a Canadian business is held to a narrow definition as to what is a Canadian business exactly and other aspects of the situation.

 

[toby]

Leon's caution about the definition of a "Canadian business" is well put. The PR is relying on the judgment of the Visa Officer to accept that time spent working abroad for a Canadian company is time "deemed to be spent in Canada" for purposes of meeting the 730-day quota. If the Visa Officer doesn't accept that the Canadian company really was a "Canadian company", then the PR must appeal etc etc in a gut-wrenching process similar to getting PR in the first place.

Same with attempting to apply days spent abroad accompanying a Canadian spouse towards the 730-day quota. This is also subject to the judgment of Immigration. The border officer could well require the PR to prove later that he/she really was accompanying the Canadian spouse (no evidence I can think of would be presentable at the border, only during a quasi "hearing" later). And this need to prove something to the satisfaction of Immigration resembles the gut-wrenching uncertainty of the original PR process.

For those who find this uncertainty unsettling, it's best to avoid relying on these exceptions if you can. Make sure you spend the 730 days in Canada, and have lots of proof.

 

[AUH Process]

Leon's caution about the definition of a "Canadian business" is well put. The PR is relying on the judgment of the Visa Officer to accept that time spent working abroad for a Canadian company is time "deemed to be spent in Canada" for purposes of meeting the 730-day quota. If the Visa Officer doesn't accept that the Canadian company really was a "Canadian company", then the PR must appeal etc etc in a gut-wrenching process similar to getting PR in the first place.

Same with attempting to apply days spent abroad accompanying a Canadian spouse towards the 730-day quota. This is also subject to the judgment of Immigration. The border officer could well require the PR to prove later that he/she really was accompanying the Canadian spouse (no evidence I can think of would be presentable at the border, only during a quasi "hearing" later). And this need to prove something to the satisfaction of Immigration resembles the gut-wrenching uncertainty of the original PR process.

For those who find this uncertainty unsettling, it's best to avoid relying on these exceptions if you can. Make sure you spend the 730 days in Canada, and have lots of proof.

Hey Toby,

Thanks for your reply

I respectfully disagree.
It is quite clear from the OP that being employed by a Canadian business qualifies. (as long as it meets the definition), so I don't think there is any room for "the judgment of the Visa Officer"

For everybody's benefit, I have quoted the definition of a Canadian business below:

6.2. Canadian business
The definition applies to both large and small businesses and includes:
• federally or provincially incorporated businesses that have an ongoing operation in Canada;
• other enterprises that have an ongoing operation in Canada, are capable of generating
revenue, are carried out in anticipation of profit and in which a majority of voting or ownership
interests is held by Canadian citizens, permanent residents or Canadian businesses; and
• enterprises which have been created by the laws of Canada or a province.

Your thoughts

 

[Leon]

Please include the link when you quote things so other people can know where it's coming from.

Other people have had problems with the definition of a Canadian business. A member of this forum told his story a couple of years ago where he believed he had met the residency requirements for his PR as being employed by a Canadian business but it turned out that his employer did not meet immigration Canada definition in some way and so he almost lost his PR. He was allowed to keep it based on H&C reasons as he had a wife and child in Canada and since his wife met the residency requirements, she would just have sponsored him back anyway. If both of them had been outside Canada hoping to keep both their PR's based on his job for the Canadian business, they would both have lost their PR's.

Maybe you can find his post if you search the board. I can not remember his user name any more or any other details about his case.

 

[AUH Process]

Other people have had problems with the definition of a Canadian business. A member of this forum told his story a couple of years ago where he believed he had met the residency requirements for his PR as being employed by a Canadian business but it turned out that his employer did not meet immigration Canada definition in some way and so he almost lost his PR. He was allowed to keep it based on H&C reasons as he had a wife and child in Canada and since his wife met the residency requirements, she would just have sponsored him back anyway. If both of them had been outside Canada hoping to keep both their PR's based on his job for the Canadian business, they would both have lost their PR's.

Maybe you can find his post if you search the board. I can not remember his user name any more or any other details about his case.

Very interesting Leon....Unfortunately I could not find his post, however, I am flying into CA within a couple of weeks, and one of the first things I intend to do is to find some good, solid legal advise regarding how this can be used....in this regard, can you direct me to some immigration lawyers in Toronto who have good experience tackling complicated immigration & residence cases.

I also want to deviate from the topic & say that I have been reading some of your posts over the past couple of years, and they are brilliant!!...very very helpfull to ppl like me seeking free information from the internet!! :-[
Keep it up!! ;D