PR Card renewal on H&C

[dmithwani]

Hi,

I have read a few cases on the forum about people going through the PR renewal on H&C grounds. I will also be going through that in a few months time. So, I ask the experts for help on this forum. Here are the basics:

1. I arrived on 15-Jul-2008 but have just come and go back to Saudi Arabia because I am working as a doctor there
2. I come every 6 months for just a month or 45 days.
3. To practice in Canada, I had to go through an exam which I did pass on Nov 2012 and have since started applying for jobs in Canada. I have started getting positive responses and going through the document verification as well as upcoming interview & assessment process but the process will take 4 to 6 months (May be this point might help me on H&C Grounds)
4. I have a house on mortgage, honest tax payer with the income I receive in Saudi and have my family ties as in my son & wife residing, working in Ontario since arriving.
5. My card expires on in August 2013

I need more advice on how to go through all this. And should I be filling in the normal renewal for PR card forms available on CIC. or is there a separate form for H&C grounds? with the above points posted what do you think should I emphasize more about?

Thanks for all your time

 

[Leon]

Unfortunately, I think you have a very weak case to get your PR renewal on H&C grounds.

H&C grounds is something like being stuck in another country because you are tending to a dying relative.

It is not H&C grounds when you are not ready to live in Canada because you do not want to take some other job while you can't find a job as a doctor.

If you are planning on moving to Canada before your PR card expires, you should simply do that and then just let it expire and not try to renew it until you have 2 years in Canada. At that point you will meet the residency obligation again and can renew without consequences.

If you are not planning on moving to Canada before your PR card expires, you should wait until it expires and then you can apply for a PR travel document at the Canadian embassy nearest to where you live stating your reasons. They will then decide if they accept your reasons or not. If they do not, you will lose your PR in which case your spouse who is living in Canada and meets the residency requirements can sponsor you. That process will take anywhere from several months up to a couple of years depending on which is your visa office. If they do accept your reasons, you can use the travel document to enter Canada where you can either stay for 2 years and then apply for a PR card or try to apply for a PR card right away based on having been given a travel document.

 

[dmithwani]

Thanks for the reply Leon. Yes I also think the same way. I have consulted many lawyers regarding this. Some responded with options which are not worth mentioning.

I am not planning to come before my PR expires, but then again if I do get the job I applied for things might change, chances of that happening are really weak. So, I would say I wont be able to come in before it expires.

One of my lawyer whom I consulted asked me to atleast try to apply for renewal on H&C before it expires citing your reasons and see how that works. Do you think I should go back and apply through the embassy or apply here, as I am im canada for this month.

Also Leon i wanted to ask is that if they dont accept my renewal, Will I be able to apply for the super visa to visit my family. And then when I decide to move to Canada finally, I ask my wife to sponsor me like after 3 or 4 years? Is this route good or the PR travel document way? Also please tell me how does PR travel document works?

 

[Leon]

I don't see a point for you to apply for anything now as you are not ready to move back. You can not apply for a PR card renewal from outside Canada and if you apply inside, your application will be as slow as molasses because they are not really set up for H&C reasons. When they finally get to it after probably a year or two and find that you left Canada again as soon as you applied, they will most likely refuse you anyway.

I think it is better that you let your PR card expire, then apply for a travel document which most likely is refused and then have your wife sponsor you. A PR travel document is a document meant for a PR who is outside Canada without a valid PR card to allow a one time return to Canada.

With a new PR from your wife, you will again have up to 3 years you can stay outside Canada.

Super visa is for parents of adult children where the children sponsor their parents to Canada with their income. If your children are already adult and make enough money to support themselves and you too, you could apply for that. Otherwise try a regular multiple entry visa. A super visa is not really better than a multiple entry visa in your case because you visit a couple of times a year for a month at a time and a regular multiple entry visa will allow you do to that. The only thing that a supervisa has that is better is the ability to stay for up to 2 years at a time but you don't need that.

 

[dmithwani]

Thank you Leon so much for clarifying things for me. I really appreciate your time for this. Not even the lawyers I paid to for consultation could provide with such clear and easier path to take.

I have a much clear sense of what to do now. As you said applying for a PR card on H&C would take a long processing time like a year or two, making me not to enter Canada to see my family.

Tell me if this is the right steps I am making:

1. Let the card expire and then apply for a PR travel document on H&C at the embassy, which they will most likely refuse and ask me to revoke the status I have.
2. Apply for a multiple entry visa soon after (How long should I wait after the revoking?)
3. When my wife becomes a citizen next year, she sponsors me.

Leon, when my wife sponsors me will I still be able to travel on the multiple entry visa during that time? Like I know my son who has sponsored her wife to come to Canada and during the process it is hard to get a visa to come visit. Let me know if I have planned the right way for myself or is there still something I missed?

Thanks again.

 

[Leon]

1. Let the card expire and they either apply for a travel document or simply renounce your PR as you will likely not get a travel document anyway.


2. If you don't get the travel document or you renounce, just apply for a visit visa right away. In some cases, it can be hard for spouses to get a visa because they are considered a risk of overstay but in your case, you will have just lost your PR because you did not stay in Canada long enough, I think you can argue that you will not be a risk to overstay.

3. She doesn't have to become a citizen before she can sponsor you. She can apply to sponsor you as soon as you are no longer PR. However, you should get the multiple entry visit visa first, then let her apply.

 

[dmithwani]

Yeah, that's most probably what I will be doing. Renounce and apply for the multiple visa. I will be waiting for my wife to become citizen and she sponsors me cause that a way my days will also be counted as she is a citizen. I will time it right, cause I feel that putting my application for sponsorship plus her application for citizenship might delay both processes.

I will take 2 or 3 years in this job I'm having there then anyway as its a really well paid job and keep on trying to apply for jobs here too.

 

[Leon]

I will be waiting for my wife to become citizen and she sponsors me cause that a way my days will also be counted as she is a citizen. I will time it right, cause I feel that putting my application for sponsorship plus her application for citizenship might delay both processes.

Your days spent with your citizen spouse outside Canada will be counted towards your PR residency requirements but not if you have renounced your PR. It is yet another option if you are willing to wait that long to wait for your wife to get citizenship, let your PR card expire, not apply for anything and not renounce your PR (which means you can't visit her) but let your wife join you after she gets citizenship. Once she has spent 2 years with you where you live, your PR is again in good standing because you meet the residency requirements based on having spent 2/5 years with a Canadian spouse overseas.

If you renounce your PR and your wife sponsors you, your days will not be counted for anything just because she is a citizen while sponsoring you. Your days will not be counted for PR because during this time, you will not be a PR and your days will certainly not be counted for citizenship. When you get your new PR, the clock for residency requirements will start ticking again from that moment.

There is no danger that applying for sponsorship during her citizenship application will delay both applications because they are completely different applications and processed at different offices.

 

[dmithwani]

Thanks for the input Leon. I will update on what I will be doing. For now the plan is to renounce, visa and then sponsor.

I will ask for any help regarding the process.

 

[Adnan34]

Dear Leon I just read very useful information about residency obligation. I just need to know that is there any timeframe to stay with Canadian spouse? (i.e. if PR card is expired in 2013 and spouse join after two years). Will it still be counted as time spent for residency obligation?) Appreciate your response.

 

[Leon]

Dear Leon I just read very useful information about residency obligation. I just need to know that is there any timeframe to stay with Canadian spouse? (i.e. if PR card is expired in 2013 and spouse join after two years). Will it still be counted as time spent for residency obligation?) Appreciate your response.

If you avoid being reported for not meeting the residency requirements and therefore never officially lose your PR, you can revive your PR status even if your spouse joins you years later.

As long as you have never lost your PR and at some point in the future, you apply for a travel document or a new PR card based on having spent 2 out of the past 5 years with a Canadian spouse outside Canada, they will renew. They are only allowed to go back in time 5 years. They can not say that you should have lost your PR more than 5 years ago because you did not meet the residency requirements then.

 

[dmithwani]

Leon, I wanted to know the procedure for revoking.

I want to relinquish my PR willingly. I come under the category where I would like to apply for Temporary Visa, don't meet the A28 requirements and would like to relinquish.

Instead of filling the IMM 5539B (Voluntary Relinquish) or the IMM 5524E (PRTD), should I just apply for a Temporary Resident Visa (Multiple Visa) which is directly online and go through that procedure. Do you think that will work?

I am saying this because the Canadian Embassy is like 400km away from my city. Even if I go there and something is missing, it will be a big hassle for me. What do you say or should I call the CIC in Canada to know what to do?

 

[Leon]

Instead of filling the IMM 5539B (Voluntary Relinquish) or the IMM 5524E (PRTD), should I just apply for a Temporary Resident Visa (Multiple Visa) which is directly online and go through that procedure. Do you think that will work?

You can not apply for a TRV while you still have your PR. What you could do is fill out the form for PR TD and multiple entry visit visa and write a cover letter stating that you do in fact not want to apply for a TD except to verify that you have lost your PR status and as you have lost your PR status, you want to apply for a multiple entry TRV. I do not know if they can process the TRV at the same time. Maybe you should rather apply for the PRTD first and once you hear back from them, apply for your TRV but either way, you can do this without making the trip to the embassy.

 

[dmithwani]

Hi Leon, Hope you are doing good.

Here is the update regarding my revoke process. I have sent all my relevant cards: PR card, Health card, etc along with their own form and my own letter stating that I would not like to apply on H&C Reasons, to the Embassy of Canada in Abu Dhabi, UAE.

Anyway, I receive a mail from them telling me that they have received my file and that I do not complete my PR obligations and that if I wish I can apply for a H&C reason in 60 days time. So now obviously I never wanted to apply for the H&C reasons, so I wrote them in email that I do not wish to keep the PR and asked them when can I be able to apply for a Visit Visa and how long would it take the revoke process to complete?

I am getting weird responses from them on email. One liner responses from the Embassy of Canada Immigration Officer like -

"You may apply for a Temporary Resident Travel Document. Please refer to our website to assist you."
OR
"You can apply for Visa online or at your local Embassy"

I really do not get their responses. I am still in touch with them. But I need to know if it is safe for me to apply for a Multiple Visa now? Because I do not want it to be rejected for reasons like I still have a PR with Canada. Do you think CIC Call Center will be able to guide me?

Let me know Leon what to do with these incomplete responses?

 

[Leon]

It sounds like they are sending you standardized form letters instead of spending time to look into your case and see where it's at. If you want to make sure that you have lost your PR before you apply, you should wait until you hear back from them officially that you have lost it.