PR card renewal - In person interview at IRCC Etobicoke office

[scylla]

Thanks.
They are short 21 days. They were in Canada from Dec 25, 2017 to August 29 2018(247 days) and from Sept 19 2021 to Dec 25 2022(application date).(462 days)

Got it. Nothing you can really do but wait. I don't think they will necessarily wait until September to make a decision. They'll make a decision based on the H&C arguments.

 

[bricksonly]

Thanks.
They are short 21 days. They were in Canada from Dec 25, 2017 to August 29 2018(247 days) and from Sept 19 2021 to Dec 25 2022(application date).(462 days)

I fully understand their situation: the time between two major stays in Canada is larger than 1095 days thus they cannot satisfy RO...until Sept 20 2023...maybe wait until then they apply is much easier and quicker than applying with a 21 days short. I am on the same boat, the good thing is I meet RO with 735 days...cannot add more days...until Sept 2023...So I submitted my application and I know with only 5 days more than the min requirement raise flag.

 

[armoured]

So I submitted my application and I know with only 5 days more than the min requirement raise flag.

I don't think you have anything to worry about, except for having made a mistake in counting.

 

[rps0470]

I fully understand their situation: the time between two major stays in Canada is larger than 1095 days thus they cannot satisfy RO...until Sept 20 2023...maybe wait until then they apply is much easier and quicker than applying with a 21 days short. I am on the same boat, the good thing is I meet RO with 735 days...cannot add more days...until Sept 2023...So I submitted my application and I know with only 5 days more than the min requirement raise flag.

Thanks. Unfortunately we have already submitted application. Will keep everyone posted as soon as i get any feedback. Looks like it won’t be soon

 

[Samrao100]

I do not have this complete. Maybe I'll eventually do a version in google sheets but it's not a priority.

In simple terms (C here below means columns here, not cells as in excel):

C1 - Day of departure (*inside Canada)
C2 - Start date outside (= C1+ 1 day)
C3 - End day outside (= C4 -1 day)
C4 - Day of return (*inside Canada)

C5 - trip days outside Canada (=C3 - C2)

Clever types will include a mechanism to count days inside Canada and to do calcs for five year periods, etc.

I have to Differ here. It looks like there will always (or generally) be one less day of trip days Outside Canada.. or 1 extra day of RO, based on this calculation. A Simple calculation: say I was in my home country on the 2nd, 3rd & 4th Jan so C3 -C2 will be 4-2=2, but intuitively we know that days away were 4-2+1 ie 3 days (assuming I left Canada on the first & returned on the 5th, & not the same day as my presence Abroad. So, the PDF IM5444 automatically takes care of this calculation where you enter the day you Left Canada in 1 column &the day you returned Canada in the next column & the Days Away are calculated automatically in the adjacent column.

I have done this calculus to the last 15 minutes, including counting an International flight taking off at 12.15 am from YVR on say Nov 30 & counting Nov 30 as 1 day of Residence, & Cutting it Close , just like the OP to 732 days RO. So one actual flight was from Jan 7 (departure) to Jan 16 (return) in 2022; calculated by the PDF accurately as 8 days AWAY.

 

[Samrao100]

@Kalandar --Overall: if you have a significant amount of evidence of your residency and presence, and the calculation of 733 days in Canada between May 2016 and April 30, 2021 is accurate, and you likewise have evidence regarding residency and presence in Canada since July 1, 2021, so that you now have > 1000 days credit for presence between November 17, 2017 and November 17, 2022 . . . That should resolve IRCC's concerns.

But it could still take awhile to get a new PR card. And I am not certain.



First, it is highly unlikely you will get a PR card, either a 5-year or a 1-year card, at the interview, and given other reports about production issues, perhaps not for quite awhile. If you travel abroad you will probably need to rely on getting a PR Travel Document to return to Canada.

Secondly, I cannot guess why, in particular, IRCC has concerns about your admissibility, your RO compliance, at this stage. So I cannot guess how serious those concerns are. It is very possible that your appearance at the interview and presentation of information will readily, almost easily, totally satisfy whatever concerns have led to this. And you will be approved for a five year card. In fact, that would be my best guess as to what is likely . . . except, based on the facts you describe, I would have guessed that outcome, card approved and delivered, before now, without having to attend a Residency Determination examination.

As for the difference between a five year and one year card, and when the latter might be issued rather than a five year card, that is specified in the regulations, Section 54 in the IRPR (Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations), which you can see here: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2002-227/page-8.html#h-686316 The regulation which requires the application to be made "in Canada" is Section 56(2)(a) can be seen there as well.

You mentioned "Until this summer the requirement to be "in" Canada when making a PR card application was in large part unenforceable ", does that mean the issue might not be my sending the application from abroad . . ..​

Applying from abroad was probably what triggered, or a big factor in what triggered, IRCC having issues with your case. There is no indication that is what is problematic now except to the extent it may influence perceptions about your credibility.

What triggers non-routine processing, or increased levels of scrutiny, are often not the primary focus of the non-routine processing or increased scrutiny that then takes place. The application from abroad, particularly in conjunction with cutting-it-so-close to the RO, almost certainly is what triggered the initial referral for non-routine processing (speculating some, but it appears your application was in Secondary Review for a year or so before it was referred to the local office for a Residency Determination).

Based on what you have indicated about the communication from IRCC, it looks like this is specifically about RO compliance. BUT you say your April 30, 2021 application was made with 733 days credit, so was made when you were in RO compliance. So IRCC should have approved the application and issued a five year card . . . UNLESS it has reason to question whether you were actually IN Canada 733 days during that time.

And this is still what would ordinarily be expected, even though following the fifth year anniversary of your landing, in May 2021, you were in breach of the RO by a little (due to being outside Canada and losing credit for the days in the summer of 2016 as they fell outside the relevant five years . . . something you and I actually discussed in this forum in the summer of 2021).

But considering your return in July 2021 and presence here since, that really should not be the problem.

So, as I said above, it is very possible that your appearance at the interview and presentation of information will readily, almost easily, totally satisfy whatever concerns have led to this. And you will be approved for a five year card. Which, however, it will still take awhile to actually get.

I am not certain of that (no guarantees). A lot depends on the accuracy of your information.

I previously mentioned the possibility that at some point IRCC already prepared a 44(1) Report . . . which technically it could have done during the period of time you were in breach of the RO following the fifth year anniversary of your landing (until you had been back in Canada long enough after July 1, 2021 to get back into RO compliance). But we do not see that sort of overly strict gotcha-enforcement by IRCC in any other case . . . and even if that is what has happened (noting this does not seem likely), even if that happened, your evidence documenting presence during the first five years and your return and presence since July 2021 should easily tip the scales toward a positive Residency Determination . . . and even if not, yes, just the impact of Covid in 2020 up to July 2021 should readily be enough for H&C relief.

Didn’t have my proper Glasses yesterday , were being repaired (have them now) , so my responses might’ve been fragmented & somewhat incomplete. But received the email from IRCC asking for passport submission for my PR TD yesterday itself, so felt somewhat eager to share my case progress. And I find lots of similarities with @Kalandar case (Cutting it Close ie mine were also 732 days RO the date I applied) so feel it worthwhile to highlight the differences as well as similarities.

Dont intend to boast or criticise, but I Went by the Book ie I FedExed my PR Card Renewal application the day i left Canada, on 15Jan ‘23 & then emailed my PR TD application from India next week on 24 Jan. But I’ve heard of Posters here who’ve done the Opposite ie applied for a PR TD while Inside Canada & applied for a PR Card Renewal while they were Overseas… & succeeded in their efforts!! So there is a Grey area which I’m looking at . While I’ve read most of the comments of the experienced members of this forum regarding @Kalandar case , I’ve done so very hurriedly & not very thoroughly. One word I find Repeated in the comments & it’s “Credibility “, as the issue regarding whether a 1 or a 5 year PR Card is to be issued

So let me understand the Grey area which exists and which might have caused the OP to be able to apply successfully for PR Card Renewal from Outside Canada. I opened the PDF IM5444 As Though I’m applying for a PR Card or TD Again. The very first Section 1 : Applicant Situation

“I am in Canada with No Travel plans “ if that’s checked on the right hand side the only option is “ I am choosing to apply for a PR Card” … Straightforward

“I am Outside Canada “, if that’s checked the 2 options available are ”Renounce my PR Card” & “I am choosing to apply for PRTD”

So it’s the 1st situation “I am in Canada but may be travelling soon” which has caused some confusion obviously because there’s both options that can subsequently be selected “ Applying for PR Card” or “Applying for PRTD” & it’s always possible the person started the application process while in Canada, but completed the process after they departed overseas & then mailed (or emailed)the application. Which would lead to further scrutiny as to possible misrepresentation of dates of travel and residency. …

 

[canuck78]

Didn’t have my proper Glasses yesterday , were being repaired (have them now) , so my responses might’ve been fragmented & somewhat incomplete. But received the email from IRCC asking for passport submission for my PR TD yesterday itself, so felt somewhat eager to share my case progress. And I find lots of similarities with @Kalandar case (Cutting it Close ie mine were also 732 days RO the date I applied) so feel it worthwhile to highlight the differences as well as similarities.

Dont intend to boast or criticise, but I Went by the Book ie I FedExed my PR Card Renewal application the day i left Canada, on 15Jan ‘23 & then emailed my PR TD application from India next week on 24 Jan. But I’ve heard of Posters here who’ve done the Opposite ie applied for a PR TD while Inside Canada & applied for a PR Card Renewal while they were Overseas… & succeeded in their efforts!! So there is a Grey area which I’m looking at . While I’ve read most of the comments of the experienced members of this forum regarding @Kalandar case , I’ve done so very hurriedly & not very thoroughly. One word I find Repeated in the comments & it’s “Credibility “, as the issue regarding whether a 1 or a 5 year PR Card is to be issued

So let me understand the Grey area which exists and which might have caused the OP to be able to apply successfully for PR Card Renewal from Outside Canada. I opened the PDF IM5444 As Though I’m applying for a PR Card or TD Again. The very first Section 1 : Applicant Situation

“I am in Canada with No Travel plans “ if that’s checked on the right hand side the only option is “ I am choosing to apply for a PR Card” … Straightforward

“I am Outside Canada “, if that’s checked the 2 options available are ”Renounce my PR Card” & “I am choosing to apply for PRTD”

So it’s the 1st situation “I am in Canada but may be travelling soon” which has caused some confusion obviously because there’s both options that can subsequently be selected “ Applying for PR Card” or “Applying for PRTD” & it’s always possible the person started the application process while in Canada, but completed the process after they departed overseas & then mailed (or emailed)the application. Which would lead to further scrutiny as to possible misrepresentation of dates of travel and residency. …

People not applying for PR card renewal while in Canada, although the rules state you are required to, and IRCC failing to catch all those breaking the rules (partially because most stated their current address in Canada and had it mailed by a family member in Canada) has lead to the new online application that makes you specify whether you are filing the PR card renewal while in Canada. If you are not in Canada and lie it is very clear misrepresentation. There is no potential excuse that you were unaware. The prompts do not allow you to apply if not in Canada. Do not apply if you are not in Canada. You seem to be trying to find a way at to justify applying while outside Canada. Starting your application while inside Canada and finishing while outside Canada is not a reason why you are able to apply from outside Canada. The prompts are very clear.

 

[armoured]

I have to Differ here. It looks like there will always (or generally) be one less day of trip days Outside Canada.. or 1 extra day of RO, based on this calculation. A Simple calculation: say I was in my home country on the 2nd, 3rd & 4th Jan so C3 -C2 will be 4-2=2, but intuitively we know that days away were 4-2+1 ie 3 days (assuming I left Canada on the first & returned on the 5th, & not the same day as my presence Abroad.

I think you have misapprehended what I wrote: I specifically have four columns and defined such that there is NO DOUBT, whatsoever, that the day of departure and day of return MEAN a day when one was in Canada for some part of that day. So I don't know what you've done, but not what I described. [I do admit there is one case I didn't account for here, at least that I've found, which is where someone leaves and returns the same day, which will give an inappropriate negative days away, so does technically require an absolute correction [ abs(c3-c2) ].

Of course, maybe I've misunderstood something or am reading what I wrote incorrectly - although I don't think so.

I have done this calculus to the last 15 minutes, including counting an International flight taking off at 12.15 am from YVR on say Nov 30 & counting Nov 30 as 1 day of Residence, & Cutting it Close , just like the OP to 732 days RO. So one actual flight was from Jan 7 (departure) to Jan 16 (return) in 2022; calculated by the PDF accurately as 8 days AWAY.

Just checked. I get exactly eight days away as well. You have done something different from what I wrote.

BUT: I don't mean to argue the point. I provided a fairly simple framework at someone's request. Everyone should of course use the government provided and check the logic they use to make sure it works.

AND: this does underline the importance of checking one's work, and - I believe - gives another reason why having a buffer of a few weeks is a good idea. You don't wnat to apply with less than 730 days due to a fat-thumbed spreadsheet or logic error.

 

[rps0470]

Thanks. Unfortunately we have already submitted application. Will keep everyone posted as soon as i get any feedback. Looks like it won’t be soon

Status is changed from In process to Decision Made today. Hopefully it is approved, not rejected.

 

[scylla]

Status is changed from In process to Decision Made today. Hopefully it is approved, not rejected.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

 

[keivan ka]

Hi every one
My current pr card expires on 5th of May.
I sent my documents to CIC and they said that I have to.pickup my card on 26th April. But I am outside canada now.
Can I come to canada with my current PR card ( as the expiry date do not come yet), or I have to get PTR?
BEST REGARDS

 

[Samrao100]

Hi every one
My current pr card expires on 5th of May.
I sent my documents to CIC and they said that I have to.pickup my card on 26th April. But I am outside canada now.
Can I come to canada with my current PR card ( as the expiry date do not come yet), or I have to get PTR?
BEST REGARDS

Current PR Card, not PR TD. The latter is only if your PR Card has Expired, is Missing or Stolen, and anyway takes a while for processing

 

[canuck78]

Hi every one
My current pr card expires on 5th of May.
I sent my documents to CIC and they said that I have to.pickup my card on 26th April. But I am outside canada now.
Can I come to canada with my current PR card ( as the expiry date do not come yet), or I have to get PTR?
BEST REGARDS

You’ll need to verify that current PR card is still valid. Was under the impression that old one is disabled once new one is issued but others can weigh in on whether that is the case

 

[keivan ka]

hi every one
If i miss the Etobicoc office appointment for PR Pickup, can i go there withought apointment (but less than 6 months after their first appointment)?

 

[canuck78]

hi every one
If i miss the Etobicoc office appointment for PR Pickup, can i go there withought apointment (but less than 6 months after their first appointment)?

You should call and reschedule. Pick-up involves an interview as well usually so not normally something you can walk-in and do.