PR App rejected .....Advise on reapply

[Hopefulagain]

@ Mightydone,

According to the NOC 2011 matric, a bachelor's degree in computer science or mathematics and computer programming experience is usually required. Do you have a degree and this experience?

@mightydome

I agree with senoritabella....qualifications would also be one thing they would be looking at ( r u bachelors in comp sc or math or a MBA??)

also, i dont know if it means something (and i am not trying to be rude, just trying to understand what these VO's think) but i was checking that their median salary range and it seems to be more in the 55 - 60 k yearly range. i saw some database administrators who were getting 85k a year (wow! thats a position i would like). i get the feeling that though the CIC asks for a letter but then it tries to tie everything - letter, qualifications, salary etc.

can you ask your company how they define your position. every job they advertise has a noc code attached to it and hence, they should be aware of the noc code of your position also. maybe, just maybe, that might help you define your position better.

please keep us updated. maybe 2 or more heads thinking (analyzing) could help you find a solution.

hang in there....................

 

[mightydone]

Guys, u er right.

Life is crazy. CEC category does not require your job to be in ur field so dts okay. My program is BsC Applied Bussiness. Combination of IT n business course. So I pretty much did computer science courses. That's by the way, Salary wise, I know its on the low end but mhen why refusing someone if that's not a requirementM I wish am getting the 55k for start but for chairty dt is not rich like my wrkplc, I doubt it. My boss wanna apply for pnp for me but that salary might b a problem cos for pnp, salary for entry level n higher is what they look for.
My jobs actually seems to fall under program coordinator but I cannot see that on NOC.

Should I get my empployer to rewrite my duties base on my daily task at work and whit that we can look for a jobt titile that will fit. Do u think that will be a problem if I reapply?
Anyways, am looking for another job on the other side.

 

[Hopefulagain]

Hey mightydome............again, i dont know, i am just presuming but even though they say they do not look at the salary, i guess these days with all the different ways we define positions it gets difficult to identify where the job belongs. hence, they will look at different signs.....does this job need a bachelor's degree or was it identified as a job needing a degree? if someone has a degree, it is presumed that he/she will look for and ask for the minimal salary to be paid. and a company will keep to that range. for example....if i am a master's student and generally a master's student gets 55 - 60k a year then one can expect 50k as a salary but not 30k, right?

to look at this from a different point of view, my wife works as a cust service rep but is paid $25 an hour (she has way too much experience) plus benefits and is a bachelor....but, as far as i am aware there is no way she will be accepted in the cec category irrespective of the unusually high pay. i dont say that i agree with their methods of defining the work experience but i do accept that it is very difficult and that they cannot just look at the letter and that is why ask us to submit the pay stubs, contract, t4 etc etc. i get a feeling they are tying all this down....wot say senoritabella, jes_on and other seniors?

mightydome, please do not think that i am being critical or i am putting you down, i am just trying to make sense out of all of this...if we can understand cic's expectations, it will be easier for all of us than shooting in the dark, and hence, i wanna start a discussion as it will benefit us all.

i would again recommend you to talk to your employer and enquire what the noc code is that they have which identifies your job. for example, i had asked my employer my noc code and i was told it is 1122, thats how they had on their records. i then sent my job description to hsrdc and they too came back with the same code. i presume all employers have to identify the position's noc code to hsrdc to assist in census data collection and mining (i guess this is how the government gives us monthly employment rates and relevant info).

if the employer can identify your noc code and they can include it in the letter, i feel you should go ahead and apply for cec (provided all other requirements are also a match)

 

[mightydone]

@hopeful, thanks so much and God bless ya. I was a coop student with this company and they hired me to become PM FT. I got the offer cos I need the one year experience and I disregard the pay cos I just wanted to apply for the PR. That been said, I never thought about all this ...VO checking pay, letter, and job to match if atall one is really in that position.

U raised a good point and I will definitly contact my employer on tuesday to ask her what NOC code my job falls under base on what they submit to hrdsc. That will help a long way.

I have also sent a letter to hrsdc with my job description when I was hired to see if they help define what my title is meant to be.

Hopeful, u know desperate times comes desperate measure. Salary was just not my major stuff when I got the job. It was this one year experience for PR.

Shake my head in pity to my self.

I will keep u guys posted when I talk to my boss.

I this sense, am sure u will agree with me to advice my boss to let's sort out my job title before apply for PNP for me. Right?

By the way, I submitted my paystub as well. Thought that was meant to show that u actually been paid by the company.

This job title mess me up big time cos I got everything they asked for. Including all contract letter for the same position since 2009 ...

Thanks hopeful and I remain hopeful. Gotta get my husband here with this PR dts why am so worried.

 

[Hopefulagain]

@ hopeful, thanks so much and God bless ya. I was a coop student with this company and they hired me to become PM FT. I got the offer cos I need the one year experience and I disregard the pay cos I just wanted to apply for the PR. That been said, I never thought about all this ...VO checking pay, letter, and job to match if atall one is really in that position.

I hear ya.....i felt the same when i had graduated last year and was just interested in finding a job. I too was not even aware of the NOC code requirement and honestly, it didnt even cross my mind that this could be an issue. Now, i try to provide my friends as much clear direction as I can....live and learn, i guess.


I would DEIFINITELY agree that you should confirm with your employer all that you can before moving fwd as it will help to clarify a lot of things for you and help you.

Good luck and best wishes.

 

[mightydone]

Thanks dear, I shall fill u in as soon as mission 1 is accplish. I will table my salary concern as well. Hopefull imma get a raise. Am a graduate afterall.

 

[jes_ON]

I am not satisfied that you meet the skilled work experience requirement. The list of duties contained in the letter of reference from your employer does not match the list of duties contained in NOC 2172 Database Supervisor. Therefore I am not satisfied that you have the work experience as claimed in your application. "

Here is what is contain in my reference letter
"
In her role, she work involves maintaining our extensive client database. Working with an outside Database Developer, She writes the requirement for the development of the web database and conducts testing on a continual basis in order to improve the functions and capabilities of the database. She provides advice to the Database Developer and end users regarding the accessibility, precautions and correctness of data. Part of her role consists of documenting the end user's requirements and creating accounts for partner organizations (approximately 300 referring agencies), which includes creating usernames and passwords, and writing the Database User Manual. Her role also involves maintaining the client database for the our Student Success and Christmas Programs as well as The Toy Center; supervising the receipt and control of client information; overseeing data input of client referrals received from outside agencies via fax, website or email and ensuring it is entered accurately and on a timely basis; cross referencing data to eliminate duplications; answering inquires; assisting agents from the referring organizations with the registration and application process; and producing various management reports from database. "

My guess is that VO thought this looked like a Skill Level C position, such as General Office Clerk or Data Entry Clerk:

http://www30.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/NOC/2006/ProfileKeyword.aspx?val=1&val1=1411&val11=data&val12=0&val13=0&val14=&val15=0&val16=0

http://www30.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/NOC/2006/ProfileKeyword.aspx?val=1&val1=1422&val11=data&val12=0&val13=0&val14=&val15=0&val16=0

Although some of the job sounds like a system analyst, the rest sounds like combination of office support /customer service. Here's why -

1 ) For it to be considered a "supervisory" position, you have to supervise other people. Merely providing "advice" is not supervising. There's no mention of other staff that you supervise.

2) Database administrators have the authority to write and implement policies and procedures. This would be a key role that is not identified (or not clear) in the description given.

Officially, CIC cannot make any determination based on the "requirements" in the NOC description, unless it refers to a regulated occupation (like doctors or nurses).

 

[mightydone]

Hi Jes_on,

Can i use Data entry clerk. Does it fall under Noc o,a, or b. It said, *

* College or other courses in data entry may be required.

Data entry clerk kinda summarize my job in a lame's man language. weird.......and pity full.

Another question, if i reapply and say my job title is Database supervisor but using the NOC 1422 as my duties, will that be allowed or those that means i will have to change my job title as well.

i was thinking of changing the job title as well and getting a letter of reference from boss and antoehr letter from boss statement that after careful review, she realize that i have been performing the duties of data entry clerk and therefore, she has change my job title to data entry clerk....................................

HELP HELP HELP HELP....

Thanks.

 

[jes_ON]

Can i use Data entry clerk. Does it fall under Noc o,a, or b. It said, *

NOC 1422 is Skill Level C. It is not considered under the CEC Class.

 

[mightydone]

hello hopeful and jes_on,

See below, maybe u guys can help me define my job title:

Job offer have contained:
Names of position : Database Supervisor

Essential Criteria
.Superior knowledge of mircrosoft access software, including manipulation of data
.Analystical skills, ability fo troublesoot problems to ensure data intergrate
.Prove supervisor skills
.Ability to hand confidential information


Major Responsibility
.Maintenance of client database for the Tools4School, Toy center and food aSsistance programs
.Assisgn usernames and passwords to referring agents
.Supervise the receipt and control of client information
.Oversea data input of client referrals received from outside agencies ensuring they are enter accuratly and on time basis
.Duplicate check data
.Answering inquires and assit referring anget with the referral process
.Produce various reports from client database
.Ensuring clients vouchers from food assistance program and report via mail merge
.work closely with other staff memeber to ensure that all necessary daily administration requirement are met

after meeting with my boss and discussing my daily job, here is what we both agreeed on as my duties:
Major Responsibility

1) Develop and Document standards and guidelines to guide the use of, and to protect the receipt, and control of client information.

2) Monitor existing databases and database management systems and direct programmers and analysts to make changes where and when needed.

3) Test databases on a continual basis to correct errors and make necessary modifications in order to improve the functions and capabilities of the database

4) Plan, coordinate and implement security measures to safeguard information in computer files against accidental or unauthorized damage, modification or disclosure.

5) Schedule, plan, and supervise the installation and testing of new products and improvements to computer systems, such as the installation of new databases.

6) Train end users, and answer questions over the phone on the process of data entry.

7) Maintenance of client database for the
Company programs, and third party.

8) Provides advice to the Database programmer and end user regarding the accessibility, precautions and correctness of data.

9) Write and update Database user manual

10)Assisgn usernames and passwords to referring agents

10) Oversea data input of client referrals received from outside agencies ensuring they are enter accuratly and on time basis

11) Manipulation of data to check and remove Duplicate data


They are planning to create a position which i will fill and it will be called program coordinator... we are charity and we have two program we run throught out the year, xmas assistance program ( we issue voucher to clients in need of help during xmas - its not a social assistance kinda but from non-profit) the second program is school assistance program( provide school supplies and voucher to family in need to help their kids go back to school with basic school supplies) aside from all the database stuff that i do, i also coordinate this program which is from communicating the our 300 agency who refer clients in need to us. their names are submitted into our database and wolaaaaaaa

 

[mightydone]

and yea, i supervise 5 - 8 data entry volunteers.

 

[SenoritaBella]

It looks like the issue may be been that your original reference letter was not detailed enough. It was a huge oversight for them to omit your supervisory role.

 

[mightydone]

sob sobb. Can anyone help me write a draft based on what I sent above. Ayam tired . Oti sunmi.

 

[jes_ON]

and yea, i supervise 5 - 8 data entry volunteers.

That information is ESSENTIAL in your job description. There's nothing wrong with your job title, but the letter did not pay enough attention to your "supervisory" role. You don't supervise a database, you supervise PEOPLE.

To me it sounds like you have a good case to reapply under the same NOC, but the job description has to hit the key supervisory and leadership functions for it to be believable... the first description focused too much on tasks that could be seen as clerical in nature.

 

[calgaryboy25]

Hello seniors,

I have a question for you. I am planning to apply for PR under CEC category. I would like to know if there is any timeline for applying after completing graduation. I completed my degree in Nov 2009. I heard we have to apply for CEC within 2 yrs of graduation, is it correct guys? I am lil confused.

Thanks for your help guys!