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plz need urgent help regarding: SUBMISSION ON 117(9)(d)

Creampop

Hero Member
Jun 15, 2012
876
16
124
Waterloo ON
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo closed > Ottawa > Finalized in LA
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
April 23rd, 2012
Doc's Request.
RPRF-September 14th, 2012
File Transfer...
7/23/12 > Ottawa 10/9/12 > LA
Med's Done....
April 10th, 2012
Interview........
waived
Passport Req..
October 9th, 2012
VISA ISSUED...
CoPR issued Oct. 29, 2012 DM November 6th, 2012
LANDED..........
November 23rd, 2012
dr_moh12 said:
now it seems very dark, like i do not have any hope. and it is very hard punishement for a mistake that my husband not mean it. we never expect like this unpurpose mistake will tear our family apart. :'( .
This was not a mistake, your husband lied they asked him face to face and he signed his answer, and you provided the answer as to why in your last reply. It took 4 years for your husband's PR, he didn't want to wait longer so he didn't claim you, see what "lying" gets you. I would be more worried at this point that CIC might investigate your husband for fraud.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/protection/fraud/document.asp
It is a serious crime to misrepresent yourself by making false statements, or submitting false information or false documents when dealing with CIC.
I don't really understand the H&C, guess if I needed it I would have read about it, but it would really be some crap if she could "USE" this to get around the fact that her Husband lied. When people out there that came to Canada then finding out they had children and those children can never be sponsored. that is what H&C would be in my book, and maybe If they hadn't asked him to his face and had him sign off on it. Everyone is asked this question when landing the IO even explains that if you do and they are not listed and examined you can never sponsor them.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,848
22,113
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Creampop said:
This was not a mistake, your husband lied they asked him face to face and he signed his answer, and you provided the answer as to why in your last reply. It took 4 years for your husband's PR, he didn't want to wait longer so he didn't claim you, see what "lying" gets you. I would be more worried at this point that CIC might investigate your husband for fraud.
Creampop does raise a good point that I don't think has been discussed in this thread yet.

Because your husband stated he was single when he landed (but was actually married) - he has committed misrerepresentation (i.e. lying about his status). CIC could chose to revoke (cancel) his PR status for misrepresenting his status at landing.

As Creampop said, as part of the landing procedure, he would have been asked if his family composition has changed and then asked to sign a document confirming everything is still the same. He had several opportunities to change his family composition and failed to do so. These rules are in place to prevent fraud and abuse of the Canadian immigration system. It's really too bad your husband failed to read the instructions that were given to him.
 

dr_moh12

Newbie
Dec 3, 2012
5
0
can you please tell me what i have to do now? i have to answer the immigration officer by end of December. it seems that even humantarian ground will not work as well.
so please tell me what i have to do now ?
there should be something that can even little help.
so what i have to answer and what to do

best thanks to all
 

Kev1n

Hero Member
Nov 11, 2012
328
14
Category........
Visa Office......
Beijing
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
09/06/2014
AOR Received.
01/08/2014
File Transfer...
01/08/2014 ( 26/09/2014--AOR2)
Med's Request
14/10/2014
Med's Done....
17/08/2013
Passport Req..
14/10/2014
dr_moh12 said:
can you please tell me what i have to do now? i have to answer the immigration officer by end of December. it seems that even humantarian ground will not work as well.
so please tell me what i have to do now ?
there should be something that can even little help.
so what i have to answer and what to do

best thanks to all
Tell your husband to come back home...
 

pungay68

Member
Oct 27, 2012
11
1
i understand how u feel .. same as my situation..i feel so upset when my sponsorship got refused.. all the while i thought im the only one who have this case that i cant be with my husband.. it hurts.. but i keep on praying.. God made as one as couple.. so there still a posibility that you can be with ur husband soon.. keep on praying..
 

canadianwoman

VIP Member
Nov 6, 2009
6,200
284
Category........
Visa Office......
Accra, Ghana
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
30-01-2008
Interview........
05-05-2009
dr_moh12 said:
1- what if i explained what happened is that on 4-7-2009 we legally married , but we do not live togather or even have marriage relationship untill he came did his landing and came back, at this time i moved from my family`s house and we lifed togather . is that ganna help?
No. You were legally married, they don't care when you consummated the marriage.
2- The IAD found that the phrase "at the time of that application" in paragraph 117(9)(d) of the Regulations includes the period that begins with the submission of the application and continues through to the time when permanent residence is granted.

in my case my wedding day was on 30-7-2009 and that time his passport was at the visa office to issue the visa and his visa issueed on 5-8-2009. is that considered as the visa and permenant resident was granted?
Permanent Residence is granted when he lands in Canada. You were married to him before this, and he didn't declare you, so an appeal won't work.
Consult a very good immigration lawyer about a possible judicial review, as mentioned earlier by frege. They'll probably say you have no humanitarian grounds, but who knows? It is worth a try.
Again, though, I think you should investigate how you can come to Canada through some other immigrant class.
 

frege

Hero Member
Jun 13, 2012
953
29
Category........
Visa Office......
Paris
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
01-05-2012
AOR Received.
none
File Transfer...
01-08-2012
Med's Done....
02-12-2011
Interview........
none
Passport Req..
28-11-2012 (copy only)
VISA ISSUED...
05-12-2012
LANDED..........
15-12-2012
canadianwoman said:
Consult a very good immigration lawyer about a possible judicial review, as mentioned earlier by frege. They'll probably say you have no humanitarian grounds, but who knows? It is worth a try.
Again, though, I think you should investigate how you can come to Canada through some other immigrant class.
The only way this could be done on the basis of humanitarian concerns would be to try to convince the visa officer. If there is a judicial review, it will be on the basis of the evidence the visa officer has when they make their decision. No new evidence can be introduced later, except if there is a new application. So if the OP wants to do this, she'll have to try to give evidence of humanitarian concerns within the visa officer's time frame.

But this is likely moot, since she now says that there are no humanitarian grounds.

dr_moh, I feel bad for you and hope you'll find another way for to be with your husband.
 

truesmile

Champion Member
Jun 7, 2012
2,622
94
Category........
Visa Office......
MNL
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
25-05-2012
AOR Received.
18-07-2012
File Transfer...
24-07-2012
Med's Done....
18-05-2012
Interview........
WAIVED
Passport Req..
05-12-2012
VISA ISSUED...
08-01-2013
LANDED..........
02-02-2013
Petition for judicial review will be dismissed:

http://decisions.fca-caf.gc.ca/en/2006/2006fca186/2006fca186.html

A lengthy but VERY interesting read . . . (originally posted by PMM on another thread)
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,848
22,113
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
truesmile said:
Petition for judicial review will be dismissed:

http://decisions.fca-caf.gc.ca/en/2006/2006fca186/2006fca186.html

A lengthy but VERY interesting read . . . (originally posted by PMM on another thread)
I was looking for this post. Thanks for finding it.

I agree that the judicial review will be dismissed.

And I will once again say that the best option here is for dr_moh12 to start looking into how she can immigrate to Canada independently through the skilled worker or provincial nominee program. I think spousal sponsorship is a completely lost cause.
 

frege

Hero Member
Jun 13, 2012
953
29
Category........
Visa Office......
Paris
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
01-05-2012
AOR Received.
none
File Transfer...
01-08-2012
Med's Done....
02-12-2011
Interview........
none
Passport Req..
28-11-2012 (copy only)
VISA ISSUED...
05-12-2012
LANDED..........
15-12-2012
truesmile said:
Petition for judicial review will be dismissed:

http://decisions.fca-caf.gc.ca/en/2006/2006fca186/2006fca186.html

A lengthy but VERY interesting read . . . (originally posted by PMM on another thread)
It is obviously very difficult to overcome exclusion on the grounds of 117(9)(d). However, it is clearly possible on H&C grounds, at least in theory. See the following decision for an example in which a visa officer's decision was overturned.

http://canlii.ca/t/1vvbf

Edit:

This case is perhaps closer to the OP's circumstances.

http://canlii.ca/t/22fqp
 

truesmile

Champion Member
Jun 7, 2012
2,622
94
Category........
Visa Office......
MNL
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
25-05-2012
AOR Received.
18-07-2012
File Transfer...
24-07-2012
Med's Done....
18-05-2012
Interview........
WAIVED
Passport Req..
05-12-2012
VISA ISSUED...
08-01-2013
LANDED..........
02-02-2013
Perhaps closer but puts "the final nail in the coffin" for this case IMO as the ruling reads in part:

“The intent of R117(9)(d), R117(10) and R117(11) is to ensure that persons whom the sponsor made a conscious decision to exclude (either by not declaring and/or not having the persons examined) from their own application for permanent residence cannot later benefit by being sponsored by this same person as a member of the family class. […]

The exclusion found in R117(9)(d) exists to encourage honesty and prevent applicants from circumventing immigration rules."

I agree with scylla on what the best option here is.
 

frege

Hero Member
Jun 13, 2012
953
29
Category........
Visa Office......
Paris
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
01-05-2012
AOR Received.
none
File Transfer...
01-08-2012
Med's Done....
02-12-2011
Interview........
none
Passport Req..
28-11-2012 (copy only)
VISA ISSUED...
05-12-2012
LANDED..........
15-12-2012
truesmile said:
Perhaps closer but puts "the final nail in the coffin" for this case IMO as the ruling reads in part:

“The intent of R117(9)(d), R117(10) and R117(11) is to ensure that persons whom the sponsor made a conscious decision to exclude (either by not declaring and/or not having the persons examined) from their own application for permanent residence cannot later benefit by being sponsored by this same person as a member of the family class. [...]

The exclusion found in R117(9)(d) exists to encourage honesty and prevent applicants from circumventing immigration rules."

I agree with scylla on what the best option here is.
The OP described this as an honest mistake. A number of assumptions must be made before one can conclude there's been misrepresentation. For example, are you certain the husband spoke English well enough to understand the forms?
 

bsq

Newbie
Aug 19, 2010
6
0
dr_moh12 said:
i have recieved a letter with a lot of refusal words, mentions that your sponsor failed to declare you as a spouse at the time of his permanent residence application and that you were not examined as a non-accompanying family member.

our first meeting was on 6-2009
our marriage was on 7-2009
day my husband (sponser) become a permenant resident 9-2009

we married just 2 months before his landing. at that time his passport was in the canadia embassy to issue him the visa. and we was very bussy in our honey moon and not realised to informe the immigration about the change in family composition. it just 2 months and it is realy a honst mistake.
i would like to mentioned that my husband did his interview at the canadian embassy on 10-2008, and that time we never met and he was single.
please help me they give me only 30 day to answer them.very urgent.
the letter from the visa office mentioned down

letter:
I am currently assessing your application for a visa. It appears that you may not meet the requirements for admission to Canada. Subsection 16(1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act states that a person who makes an application must answer truthfully all questions put to them for the purpose of the examination and must produce all
relevant evidence and documents that the officer reasonably requires.
Subsection 117(9)(d) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations, states that, a foreign national shall not be considered a member of the family class by virtue of their relationship to a sponsor if, subject to subsection (10), the sponsor previously made an application for permanent residence and became a permanent resident and, at the time of that application, the foreign national was a non-accompanying family member of the sponsor and was not examined.
Exception
(10) Subject to subsection (11), paragraph (9)(d) does not apply in respect of a foreign national referred to
in that paragraph who was not examined because an officer determined that they were not required by the Act or the former Act, as applicable, to be examined.
Your marriage certificate states that you were married on July 4, 2009. Your sponsor, Mr. Mohamed became a permanent resident of Canada on September 11, 2009.
On the balance of probabilities, I have concerns that you were married to your sponsor prior to the date your sponsor became a permanent resident. It appears that your sponsor failed to declare you as a spouse at the time of his permanent residence application and that you were not examined as a non-accompanying family member.
As a result, I have concerns that you are a person described under Subsection 117(9)(d) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations and that you are not eligible to be sponsored under the Family Class.


Before I make a final decision, we invite you to submit additional information relating to these concerns.
You have until January 3, 2013 to submit additional information to our office. Please ensure that you quote the file
number indicated at the top of this letter on any information you submit.
If you choose not to respond with additional information I will make my decision based on the information
on file, which may result in the refusal of your applic

please help me , tell me what to do .
Sorry to hear that but i am in same situation :
i was granted visa on nov-2011
went back to india from USA and got married on 14th FEB 2012
and landed in canada on june-2012 i failed to declare at port of entry that my status has changed and landed as single
i know that was my mistake .
I have one question to all seniors please advise me : can my wife apply under PNP indepandantly ? and when she can apply
 

bsq

Newbie
Aug 19, 2010
6
0
scylla said:
Thanks for clarifying - that's good information.
Need advise?? if someone can help?


sorry to say but i am also one of them caught under 117(9)(D)
i am in same situation :
i was granted visa on nov-2011 (from buffalo)
went back to india from USA and got married on 14th FEB 2012
and landed in canada on june-2012 i failed to declare at port of entry that my status has changed and landed as single
i know that was my mistake .
I have one question to all seniors please advise me : can my wife apply under PNP indepandantly ? and when she can apply
 

bsq

Newbie
Aug 19, 2010
6
0
bsq said:
Need advise?? if someone can help?


sorry to say but i am also one of them caught under 117(9)(D)
i am in same situation :
i was granted visa on nov-2011 (from buffalo)
went back to india from USA and got married on 14th FEB 2012
and landed in canada on june-2012 i failed to declare at port of entry that my status has changed and landed as single
i know that was my mistake .
I have one question to all seniors please advise me : can my wife apply under PNP indepandantly ? and when she can apply


HI, scylla please need your advise