plz need urgent help regarding: SUBMISSION ON 117(9)(d)

[dr_moh12]

i have recieved a letter with a lot of refusal words, mentions that your sponsor failed to declare you as a spouse at the time of his permanent residence application and that you were not examined as a non-accompanying family member.

our first meeting was on 6-2009
our marriage was on 7-2009
day my husband (sponser) become a permenant resident 9-2009

we married just 2 months before his landing. at that time his passport was in the canadia embassy to issue him the visa. and we was very bussy in our honey moon and not realised to informe the immigration about the change in family composition. it just 2 months and it is realy a honst mistake.
i would like to mentioned that my husband did his interview at the canadian embassy on 10-2008, and that time we never met and he was single.
please help me they give me only 30 day to answer them.very urgent.
the letter from the visa office mentioned down
letter:
I am currently assessing your application for a visa. It appears that you may not meet the requirements for admission to Canada. Subsection 16(1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act states that a person who makes an application must answer truthfully all questions put to them for the purpose of the examination and must produce all
relevant evidence and documents that the officer reasonably requires.
Subsection 117(9)(d) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations, states that, a foreign national shall not be considered a member of the family class by virtue of their relationship to a sponsor if, subject to subsection (10), the sponsor previously made an application for permanent residence and became a permanent resident and, at the time of that application, the foreign national was a non-accompanying family member of the sponsor and was not examined.
Exception
(10) Subject to subsection (11), paragraph (9)(d) does not apply in respect of a foreign national referred to
in that paragraph who was not examined because an officer determined that they were not required by the Act or the former Act, as applicable, to be examined.
Your marriage certificate states that you were married on July 4, 2009. Your sponsor, Mr. Mohamed became a permanent resident of Canada on September 11, 2009.
On the balance of probabilities, I have concerns that you were married to your sponsor prior to the date your sponsor became a permanent resident. It appears that your sponsor failed to declare you as a spouse at the time of his permanent residence application and that you were not examined as a non-accompanying family member.
As a result, I have concerns that you are a person described under Subsection 117(9)(d) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations and that you are not eligible to be sponsored under the Family Class.

Before I make a final decision, we invite you to submit additional information relating to these concerns.
You have until January 3, 2013 to submit additional information to our office. Please ensure that you quote the file
number indicated at the top of this letter on any information you submit.
If you choose not to respond with additional information I will make my decision based on the information
on file, which may result in the refusal of your applic

please help me , tell me what to do .

 

[frege]

Hello Dr. Moh,

Unfortunately, the law changed on this several years ago. Now even honest mistakes can permanently prevent you from being sponsored to Canada. To me, it is very unfair to punish people for honest mistakes, but it is clear that this is what the law does in this circumstance.

Here are a couple of articles on section 117(9)(d):

http://www.cba.org/cba/cle/pdf/Rubinoff2.pdf

http://ccrweb.ca/files/excludedfam.pdf

It seems that you are caught by 117(9)(d), unless your husband did tell the authorities you were married at some point before or at the time he entered Canada, which could be very difficult to prove.

Your best chance is some kind of argument on humanitarian grounds, although this will be very difficult. The fact that it was an honest mistake might help you, but it will not be enough on its own. If you speak to a Canadian immigration lawyer, maybe you will find humanitarian grounds that you can submit to the visa officer.

In your situation, only the visa officer, not an appeals panel, can make the decision to allow the sponsorship on humanitarian grounds. So it's important to make the best case possible immediately.

If this fails, you can attempt to come to Canada independently, or you can both go to another country. If you decide to try to come to Canada independently, remember to study not only the federal immigration programs, but also those of each province.

 

[scylla]

our first meeting was on 6-2009
our marriage was on 7-2009
day my husband (sponser) become a permenant resident 9-2009

please help me , tell me what to do .

Unfortunately there really isn't anything you can do. Because your husband failed to add you to his application before becoming a permanent resident, he can never sponsor you.

It doesn't matter that he was single when he was interviewed. What matters is his status when he landed in Canada and became a PR. It also doesn't matter that this was an honest mistake.

Your application is definitely going to be refused. I don't see any point in appealing since your husband clearly married you before landing. It's also my understanding that humanitarian grounds don't apply since you are no longer classified as a member of your husband's family.

I believe your best and only real option is to see if you can immigrate to Canada independently (e.g. as a skilled worker or provincial nominee).

 

[Creampop]

It seems that you are caught by 117(9)(d), unless your husband did tell the authorities you were married at some point before or at the time he entered Canada, which could be very difficult to prove.

Everyone keeps saying honest mistake... Her husband obviously told them when he landed that nothing had changed otherwise his visa would have been invalid. They specifically ask you when you land do you have any dependents, have you gotten married or had any new children born and then they have you sign off on your answer. so no this will not be difficult to prove as they have his answer in black and white. Not to mention the marriage certificate which clearly shows the date before landing. The law sucks but I can understand why they implicated it and it is very straight forward and as the law stands and as rude as this sounds because he signed off on it your husband will not ever be able to sponsor you...

Edited to say: scylla you said it so much nicer!

 

[canadianwoman]

You will not be able to be sponsored by your husband. These cases do not win at appeal, so I would say there is not even any point in appealing. Look into other options to come to Canada: get the education and skills needed to apply in one of the other classes.

 

[dr_moh12]

i have recieved a letter with a lot of refusal words, mentions that your sponsor failed to declare you as a spouse at the time of his permanent residence application and that you were not examined as a non-accompanying family member.

our first meeting was on 6-2009
our marriage was on 7-2009
day my husband (sponser) become a permenant resident 9-2009

we married just 2 months before his landing. at that time his passport was in the canadia embassy to issue him the visa. and we was very bussy in our honey moon and not realised to informe the immigration about the change in family composition. it just 2 months and it is realy a honst mistake.
i would like to mentioned that my husband did his interview at the canadian embassy on 10-2008, and that time we never met and he was single.
please help me they give me only 30 day to answer them.very urgent.
the letter from the visa office mentioned down
letter:
I am currently assessing your application for a visa. It appears that you may not meet the requirements for admission to Canada. Subsection 16(1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act states that a person who makes an application must answer truthfully all questions put to them for the purpose of the examination and must produce all
relevant evidence and documents that the officer reasonably requires.
Subsection 117(9)(d) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations, states that, a foreign national shall not be considered a member of the family class by virtue of their relationship to a sponsor if, subject to subsection (10), the sponsor previously made an application for permanent residence and became a permanent resident and, at the time of that application, the foreign national was a non-accompanying family member of the sponsor and was not examined.
Exception
(10) Subject to subsection (11), paragraph (9)(d) does not apply in respect of a foreign national referred to
in that paragraph who was not examined because an officer determined that they were not required by the Act or the former Act, as applicable, to be examined.
Your marriage certificate states that you were married on July 4, 2009. Your sponsor, Mr. Mohamed became a permanent resident of Canada on September 11, 2009.
On the balance of probabilities, I have concerns that you were married to your sponsor prior to the date your sponsor became a permanent resident. It appears that your sponsor failed to declare you as a spouse at the time of his permanent residence application and that you were not examined as a non-accompanying family member.
As a result, I have concerns that you are a person described under Subsection 117(9)(d) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations and that you are not eligible to be sponsored under the Family Class.

Before I make a final decision, we invite you to submit additional information relating to these concerns.
You have until January 3, 2013 to submit additional information to our office. Please ensure that you quote the file
number indicated at the top of this letter on any information you submit.
If you choose not to respond with additional information I will make my decision based on the information
on file, which may result in the refusal of your applic


my question:
1- what if i explained what happened is that on 4-7-2009 we legally married , but we do not live togather or even have marriage relationship untill he came did his landing and came back, at this time i moved from my family`s house and we lifed togather . is that ganna help?

2- The IAD found that the phrase "at the time of that application" in paragraph 117(9)(d) of the Regulations includes the period that begins with the submission of the application and continues through to the time when permanent residence is granted.

in my case my wedding day was on 30-7-2009 and that time his passport was at the visa office to issue the visa and his visa issueed on 5-8-2009. is that considered as the visa and permenant resident was granted?

 

[dr_moh12]

my question:
1- what if i explained what happened is that on 4-7-2009 we legally married , but we do not live togather or even have marriage relationship untill he came did his landing and came back, at this time i moved from my family`s house and we lifed togather . is that ganna help?

2- The IAD found that the phrase "at the time of that application" in paragraph 117(9)(d) of the Regulations includes the period that begins with the submission of the application and continues through to the time when permanent residence is granted.

in my case my wedding day was on 30-7-2009 and that time his passport was at the visa office to issue the visa and his visa issueed on 5-8-2009. is that considered as the visa and permenant resident was granted?

 

[parker24]

Your husband cannot sponsor you. You are going to be refused because your husband misrepresented saying he was single when he landed. There is no way around it. The only way you can get to Canada is the way scylla suggested.

You were legally married WHEN HE LANDED. He should have told them that and then there wouldn't be an issue. I wouldn't doubt that CIC is now looking into your husband as well.

 

[truesmile]

Just to add that the phrase "at the time of that application" has already been raised in a certifiable question with Federal Courts and on a much more compelling case than yours . . . and even in that case, the applicants petition (appeal) was dismissed. Previous posts are ACCURATE, you won't win an appeal.

"Everyone keeps saying honest mistake... Her husband obviously told them when he landed that nothing had changed otherwise his visa would have been invalid." ~ CreamPop . . . AMEN!

 

[dr_moh12]

now it seems very dark, like i do not have any hope. and it is very hard punishement for a mistake that my husband not mean it. we never expect like this unpurpose mistake will tear our family apart. :'( . my husband application process took about 4 years in processing and we first meet and married just 2 months before his landing, just 2 months we was very bussy preparing for our wedding , not even thinking about travelling to canada. and becouse he forget to tell about the change in his married status we will be part foerever. i am waiting my visa, which will be refused.
please help me:
my question:
1- what if i explained what happened is that on 4-7-2009 we legally married , but we do not live togather or even have marriage relationship untill he came did his landing and came back, at this time i moved from my family`s house and we lifed togather . is that ganna help?

3- i will send humintarian ground as well, but how and where i can do it?
thanks you all for support and help.
please reply me

 

[truesmile]

The thing is, it's not that he "forgot", it's that he was specifically asked during 'landing' procedures and he DENIED that anything had changed. So #1 won't fly, the Visa Officer's hands are tied (bound by legislation, they have no leeway to impose personal feelings on whether it is right or wrong, should be or shouldn't be) he MUST reject the application on that article.

Perhaps #3 is your only option, I cannot comment on H&C grounds.

 

[frege]

now it seems very dark, like i do not have any hope. and it is very hard punishement for a mistake that my husband not mean it. we never expect like this unpurpose mistake will tear our family apart. :'( . my husband application process took about 4 years in processing and we first meet and married just 2 months before his landing, just 2 months we was very bussy preparing for our wedding , not even thinking about travelling to canada. and becouse he forget to tell about the change in his married status we will be part foerever. i am waiting my visa, which will be refused.
please help me:
my question:
1- what if i explained what happened is that on 4-7-2009 we legally married , but we do not live togather or even have marriage relationship untill he came did his landing and came back, at this time i moved from my family`s house and we lifed togather . is that ganna help?

3- i will send humintarian ground as well, but how and where i can do it?
thanks you all for support and help.
please reply me

In regard to question 1, the only thing is that if it appears to be a deliberate misrepresentation, then this would hurt your application on humanitarian grounds. If it appears to be an honest mistake, then it would be one factor considered in an application based on humanitarian grounds.

With respect to question 3, humanitarian grounds might be children in Canada who need you, or if your husband is ill and can't take care of himself, etc. It will only work if there are special circumstances in your case, and even then is likely to be difficult. If it would be reasonable for you to be together by your husband returning to your country, I don't think you'll have humanitarian grounds.

If you want to go this route, then you should speak to a lawyer. If there are no possible humanitarian grounds that can work in your case, then he will tell you. This will save you the time, effort and disappointment in case it doesn't have a chance of working. And if you do have grounds, then he'll help you put together the best possible case.

 

[scylla]

now it seems very dark, like i do not have any hope. and it is very hard punishement for a mistake that my husband not mean it. we never expect like this unpurpose mistake will tear our family apart. :'( . my husband application process took about 4 years in processing and we first meet and married just 2 months before his landing, just 2 months we was very bussy preparing for our wedding , not even thinking about travelling to canada. and becouse he forget to tell about the change in his married status we will be part foerever. i am waiting my visa, which will be refused.
please help me:
my question:
1- what if i explained what happened is that on 4-7-2009 we legally married , but we do not live togather or even have marriage relationship untill he came did his landing and came back, at this time i moved from my family`s house and we lifed togather . is that ganna help?

3- i will send humintarian ground as well, but how and where i can do it?
thanks you all for support and help.
please reply me

It doesn't matter that you didn't live together. You were married before he landed. That is all that matters. So no - unfortunately this won't help.

I don't think you qualify for humanitarian grounds because you are no longer classified as a member of your husband's family (because he failed to declare you before landing). A good lawyer will be able to confirm.

I think you should focus on finding out if you can immigrate independently.

 

[frege]

I don't think you qualify for humanitarian grounds because you are no longer classified as a member of your husband's family (because he failed to declare you before landing). A good lawyer will be able to confirm.

A quote from the CBA article, which says that humanitarian concerns are the preferred approach in these cases.

http://www.cba.org/cba/cle/pdf/Rubinoff2.pdf

"As I stated at the beginning of my paper, paragraph 117(9)(d) has radically changed the
playing field. Most appellants who come within the ambit of the provision have a very
limited chance to reverse the decision in an appeal to the IAD. The case law is evolving
on section 25 applications used to overcome a paragraph 117(9)(d) refusal. Due to the
limited scope of an IAD appeal, it appears that a section 25 application may be the
approach preferred by appellants’ counsel in most situations."

The fact that a foreign spouse is not a "member of the family class" does not preclude them from making an application based on H&C grounds. What it means is that, if the IAD is satisfied the foreign spouse falls under 117(9)(d), then the IAD doesn't have jurisdiction to overturn a visa officer's decision on H&C grounds. The only way that can happen is a judicial review of the visa officer's decision.

Now, I don't mean by this that humanitarian concerns are likely to be present in Dr.Moh's case. That is something that will depend on her circumstances, perhaps things that she hasn't mentioned here.

 

[scylla]

A quote from the CBA article, which says that humanitarian concerns are the preferred approach in these cases.

http://www.cba.org/cba/cle/pdf/Rubinoff2.pdf

"As I stated at the beginning of my paper, paragraph 117(9)(d) has radically changed the
playing field. Most appellants who come within the ambit of the provision have a very
limited chance to reverse the decision in an appeal to the IAD. The case law is evolving
on section 25 applications used to overcome a paragraph 117(9)(d) refusal. Due to the
limited scope of an IAD appeal, it appears that a section 25 application may be the
approach preferred by appellants' counsel in most situations."

The fact that a foreign spouse is not a "member of the family class" does not preclude them from making an application based on H&C grounds. What it means is that, if the IAD is satisfied the foreign spouse falls under 117(9)(d), then the IAD doesn't have jurisdiction to overturn a visa officer's decision on H&C grounds. The only way that can happen is a judicial review of the visa officer's decision.

Now, I don't mean by this that humanitarian concerns are likely to be present in Dr.Moh's case. That is something that will depend on her circumstances, perhaps things that she hasn't mentioned here.

Thanks for clarifying - that's good information.