Please share the experience who stayed 4 years outside canada and returned back without any issue.

[dpenabill]

Just want to correct the their PR cards expire in May 2020 and 5 years are up around March 2020.

And that is a big deal. An important correction and clarification (and appreciated). That means the breach of the PR is much bigger and the odds of being waived into Canada without being reported much lower. For one thing, a big thing, it makes the fact of the breach and its extent far more obvious.

And of course that extends to all the stages in the process:

-- likelihood of referral to Secondary
-- likelihood of being Reported and issued a Departure Order, and
-- likelihood an appeal will not be successful even if the family stays in Canada pending the appeal​

That said, I do not prejudge the outcome of any of these cases. It is patently clear to me we do NOT KNOW what percentage of PRs in breach are allowed to enter Canada at a PoE without being reported versus how many are reported. We know it goes both ways. We know that the bigger the breach, the bigger the risk of being reported. And, roughly, some idea of the influence other factors may have. BUT that leaves us way, way short of being able to reliably forecast how things will go for any particular Canadian.

To a large extent, a very large extent, the decision @eeltamo is faced with making is whether taking the gamble is worth it or not. And of course a key element in making that decision is whether the family can even afford to take such a gamble.

 

[canuck78]

Agree. You have to gage whether you are willing to risk the time and expense of coming to Canada with the risk that you may not be able to stay.

 

[eeltamo]

And that is a big deal. An important correction and clarification (and appreciated). That means the breach of the PR is much bigger and the odds of being waived into Canada without being reported much lower. For one thing, a big thing, it makes the fact of the breach and its extent far more obvious.

And of course that extends to all the stages in the process:

-- likelihood of referral to Secondary
-- likelihood of being Reported and issued a Departure Order, and
-- likelihood an appeal will not be successful even if the family stays in Canada pending the appeal​

That said, I do not prejudge the outcome of any of these cases. It is patently clear to me we do NOT KNOW what percentage of PRs in breach are allowed to enter Canada at a PoE without being reported versus how many are reported. We know it goes both ways. We know that the bigger the breach, the bigger the risk of being reported. And, roughly, some idea of the influence other factors may have. BUT that leaves us way, way short of being able to reliably forecast how things will go for any particular Canadian.

To a large extent, a very large extent, the decision @eeltamo is faced with making is whether taking the gamble is worth it or not. And of course a key element in making that decision is whether the family can even afford to take such a gamble.

thanks for the detailed response.
if i take the risk and move with the family, and in worst case Scenario, there is departure order for us, and my appeal is not accepted, will i be able to issue work permit while being inside Canada ?

 

[dpenabill]

thanks for the detailed response.
if i take the risk and move with the family, and in worst case Scenario, there is departure order for us, and my appeal is not accepted, will i be able to issue work permit while being inside Canada ?

If you are issued a Departure Order you are still allowed to enter Canada. You are still a Canadian for at least 30 more days. If you file an appeal within that time, you will continue to have PR status (and thus have a right to work like any other Canadian) for as long as the appeal is pending. That often takes around a year. Some appear to go faster. Many appear to take longer.

If you lose the appeal, that decision will result in you becoming a Foreign National (not a Canadian). At that point you are in the same position as any Foreign National and can make whatever application a FN in your situation might be eligible for.

Which brings up an altogether different option: renounce your PR and apply anew for status to come to Canada . . . be that pursuant to a temporary worker permit or a new application for PR (if you are eligible). You cannot apply for these while you are still a PR . . . obviously, Canadians are not eligible for non-Canadian work permits or such.

 

[canuck78]

Finding an employer willing to go through the LMIA process may prove difficult and there could be an up to 6 month period where you can’t work if you lose your PR.

 

[eeltamo]

If you are issued a Departure Order you are still allowed to enter Canada. You are still a Canadian for at least 30 more days. If you file an appeal within that time, you will continue to have PR status (and thus have a right to work like any other Canadian) for as long as the appeal is pending. That often takes around a year. Some appear to go faster. Many appear to take longer.

If you lose the appeal, that decision will result in you becoming a Foreign National (not a Canadian). At that point you are in the same position as any Foreign National and can make whatever application a FN in your situation might be eligible for.

Which brings up an altogether different option: renounce your PR and apply anew for status to come to Canada . . . be that pursuant to a temporary worker permit or a new application for PR (if you are eligible). You cannot apply for these while you are still a PR . . . obviously, Canadians are not eligible for non-Canadian work permits or such.

thanks. do you know if i can travel overseas (for business trips) during the appeal or not ?

 

[canuck78]

thanks. do you know if i can travel overseas (for business trips) during the appeal or not ?

If you don’t have a valid PR card you would need to land in the US or apply for a PRTD.

 

[eeltamo]

If you don’t have a valid PR card you would need to land in the US or apply for a PRTD.

and do you believe US immigration may not allow me to enter the country or they have to let me enter but may initiate the RO breach process ?

 

[canuck78]

and do you believe US immigration may not allow me to enter the country or they have to let me enter but may initiate the RO breach process ?

Can’t comment on whether you will be able to get a US visa. If you are a PR CBSA has to let you into Canada.

 

[eeltamo]

If you are issued a Departure Order you are still allowed to enter Canada. You are still a Canadian for at least 30 more days. If you file an appeal within that time, you will continue to have PR status (and thus have a right to work like any other Canadian) for as long as the appeal is pending. That often takes around a year. Some appear to go faster. Many appear to take longer.

If you lose the appeal, that decision will result in you becoming a Foreign National (not a Canadian). At that point you are in the same position as any Foreign National and can make whatever application a FN in your situation might be eligible for.

Which brings up an altogether different option: renounce your PR and apply anew for status to come to Canada . . . be that pursuant to a temporary worker permit or a new application for PR (if you are eligible). You cannot apply for these while you are still a PR . . . obviously, Canadians are not eligible for non-Canadian work permits or such.

@dpenabill thanks fr your response, i was reading your detailed response in other forum where you mentioned that you haven't cited any case lost removal appeal due to breach of RO obligation as usually the number of days left to reach end of the 5th year anniversary are credited to the benefits of the PR.
my question and looks you have a very good database and you have read a lot, have you came across any cases similar to mine, where the PR only stayed 2 weeks in the whole time since landing , lands couple of months before the PR expires , moving with the whole family and having employment contract to show clear evidence that the whole family willing to stay and consider Canada as home ?

thanks for your response

 

[eeltamo]

Can’t comment on whether you will be able to get a US visa. If you are a PR CBSA has to let you into Canada.

thanks. US visa hopefully will not be an issue. so will US immigration allow me to enter Canada from the land boarder using expired PR card ?

 

[zardoz]

thanks. US visa hopefully will not be an issue. so will US immigration allow me to enter Canada from the land boarder using expired PR card ?

The CBP won't stop you leaving the USA, if that's what you are asking.

 

[dpenabill]

@dpenabill thanks fr your response, i was reading your detailed response in other forum where you mentioned that you haven't cited any case lost removal appeal due to breach of RO obligation as usually the number of days left to reach end of the 5th year anniversary are credited to the benefits of the PR.
my question and looks you have a very good database and you have read a lot, have you came across any cases similar to mine, where the PR only stayed 2 weeks in the whole time since landing , lands couple of months before the PR expires , moving with the whole family and having employment contract to show clear evidence that the whole family willing to stay and consider Canada as home ?

thanks for your response

I cannot quantify the risks. I am NOT an expert. And I doubt even experts can offer anywhere near sure-odds, either way.

That said, as noted before, best chance is to be waived into Canada without getting Reported. There is no data base of statistics for this. Same factors matter. But how it actually goes appears to vary considerably. But, as also noted, I initially overlooked just how long you have been abroad. And that is the biggest factor. A big negative factor.

If Reported, which seems likely but I am not sure that is what will happen, and you appeal, even if you stay without leaving Canada at all while the appeal is pending, the odds of winning the appeal are not good. Again, I cannot precisely quantify how bad the odds are. I do not trust anyone's claim to know otherwise. But generally the IAD is not as lenient as PoE officials (the difference in many if not most appeal cases which do succeed tends to be more about putting together a stronger case to present to the IAD, often with the help of a lawyer, for the appeal).

If you leave Canada while the appeal is pending, especially if for much time, that hurts the H&C case. But yes, if you can travel via the U.S. there is no problem coming and going while the appeal is pending, displaying passport plus expired PR card, or at least passport plus copy of CoPR.