Please assist me to interpret this

[JoacRy]

Hi all, just thought I'd post this as a question and to demonstrate the kind of 'non-answer' to a question that CIC has been known to provide:

Question sent via Case Specific Inquiry on 04 Dec 2015 after receiving an ITA:
Hi, I have received an ITA based (in part) on getting recognized for 1 year of working in Canada when I am a few days short of '365' days. Can you please inform me if I will be penalized were I to accept the Invitation? Note: By date of submission I will have in excess of '365' days in Canada. Is the information in the EE profile taken to be valid in assessing the application at the time the ITA is issued or on the date of submission of the documents requested per the class of PR application invited to apply for?

CIC's reply:

Dear Joacry,

Thank you for contacting Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC).

Please note that you are under no obligation to accept the invitation. If you do not wish to proceed with an application for permanent residence under the selected program, you may decline the invitation and return to the pool. You may or may not be invited again in future.

I welcome any comments from anyone on the Forum as to how they would interpret this.

Thanks in advance of your replies.

 

[Andy.cic]

Hi all, just thought I'd post this as a question and to demonstrate the kind of 'non-answer' to a question that CIC has been known to provide:

Question sent via Case Specific Inquiry on 04 Dec 2015 after receiving an ITA:
Hi, I have received an ITA based (in part) on getting recognized for 1 year of working in Canada when I am a few days short of '365' days. Can you please inform me if I will be penalized were I to accept the Invitation? Note: By date of submission I will have in excess of '365' days in Canada. Is the information in the EE profile taken to be valid in assessing the application at the time the ITA is issued or on the date of submission of the documents requested per the class of PR application invited to apply for?

CIC's reply:

Dear Joacry,

Thank you for contacting Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC).

Please note that you are under no obligation to accept the invitation. If you do not wish to proceed with an application for permanent residence under the selected program, you may decline the invitation and return to the pool. You may or may not be invited again in future.

I welcome any comments from anyone on the Forum as to how they would interpret this.

Thanks in advance of your replies.

Cic always answers mysteriously.

If you work 35 hours a week for a full year, you have already met their minimum requirement of 1560 hours a year. Just make sure that your hous are mentioned on your reference letter.

Andy

 

[joelmath]

Hi Joacry, my personal suggestion would be that you decline the ITA until you complete the minimum 1 year work experience requirement. Here's why :
" Under section A11.2, an officer may not issue a visa to an applicant who did not or does not meet the Express Entry minimum entry criteria (MEC) or did not or does not possess the qualifications for which they received their CRS score at the time when

the Invitation to Apply (ITA) was issued; or
the e-APR was received by CIC."

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/perm/express/refuse.asp

 

[JoacRy]

Hi Joacry, my personal suggestion would be that you decline the ITA until you complete the minimum 1 year work experience requirement. Here's why :
" Under section A11.2, an officer may not issue a visa to an applicant who did not or does not meet the Express Entry minimum entry criteria (MEC) or did not or does not possess the qualifications for which they received their CRS score at the time when

the Invitation to Apply (ITA) was issued; or
the e-APR was received by CIC."

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/perm/express/refuse.asp

I agree with you in part and I have already that and posted before. The thing is this is a grey area for me:

an officer may not issue a visa to an applicant who did not or does not meet the Express Entry minimum entry criteria (MEC) or did not or does not possess the qualifications for which they received their CRS score at the time when

the Invitation to Apply (ITA) was issued; or
the e-APR was received by CIC."

This seems to imply they could also go with your application based on the date and time the 'e-APR' is received. In fact I have read people on this forum say that they have been in my position and waited until they pass the 365 days and their application has been processed.

This seems to not be an 'and/or' situtation, just an 'or' situation.

 

[joelmath]

This seems to imply they could also go with your application based on the date and time the 'e-APR' is received. In fact I have read people on this forum say that they have been in my position and waited until they pass the 365 days and their application has been processed.

This seems to not be an 'and/or' situtation, just an 'or' situation.
[/quote]

If you continue to read further in the page you will find this

Requirement to maintain the MEC
Ministerial Instructions created under the authority of section A10.3(1)(e) list the MEC for Express Entry. Applicants must meet the MEC to be accepted into the Express Entry pool and must also meet the MEC when they are issued an ITA and when they submit their e-APR.

You must meet meet MEC when you are issued ITA which in your case did not happen (assuming that this 1 year experience is the only experience you are claiming points for)

 

[ozlis]

You seem to have asked this a couple of times - unfortunately it boils down to what you want to risk here. You could submit no worries or they may reject you, given the wording they will be within their rights to do either.

CIC has non-answered you, the only sure fire, 100% conditions met option is to wait for another ITA.

Totally your decision on this very grey area. You are going to have to bite the bullet and make a choice.

 

[JoacRy]

This seems to imply they could also go with your application based on the date and time the 'e-APR' is received. In fact I have read people on this forum say that they have been in my position and waited until they pass the 365 days and their application has been processed.

This seems to not be an 'and/or' situtation, just an 'or' situation.


If you continue to read further in the page you will find this

Requirement to maintain the MEC
Ministerial Instructions created under the authority of section A10.3(1)(e) list the MEC for Express Entry. Applicants must meet the MEC to be accepted into the Express Entry pool and must also meet the MEC when they are issued an ITA and when they submit their e-APR.

You must meet meet MEC when you are issued ITA which in your case did not happen (assuming that this 1 year experience is the only experience you are claiming points for)

If you click on the hyperlink to 'Minimum Entry Criteria' it goes to the page where this information is shown:

When a candidate’s profile shows that they meet the minimum entry criteria (MEC), the system automatically enters their profile into the Express Entry pool. This means the candidate is eligible to receive an Invitation to Apply (ITA) for the program(s) whose requirements they appear to meet.

Minimum entry criteria
To meet the MEC, candidates must do the following:

meet the program requirements of the federal skilled worker class (FSWC), the federal skilled trades class (FSTC) or the Canadian experience class (CEC) (this is determined by questions asked in the Express Entry profile builder); and
register with the Government of Canada’s Job Bank within 30 days (unless they have a qualifying offer of arranged employment or a confirmed nomination under a Provincial Nominee Program Express Entry stream).

the Minimum Entry Criteria refers to the Immigration program invited to apply for (ie CEC, FSW or FST) not the EE process.

 

[SecularFirst]

How does CIC verify our working hours ? Usually i work 40 hours a week but i remember few months ago, i took few days off as i was sick and once I worked less hours in a week as i was taking some exam. How do they calculate our total hours worked ? Or do they rely on reference letter ?

 

[joelmath]

If you click on the hyperlink to 'Minimum Entry Criteria' it goes to the page where this information is shown:

When a candidate’s profile shows that they meet the minimum entry criteria (MEC), the system automatically enters their profile into the Express Entry pool. This means the candidate is eligible to receive an Invitation to Apply (ITA) for the program(s) whose requirements they appear to meet.

Minimum entry criteria
To meet the MEC, candidates must do the following:

meet the program requirements of the federal skilled worker class (FSWC), the federal skilled trades class (FSTC) or the Canadian experience class (CEC) (this is determined by questions asked in the Express Entry profile builder); and
register with the Government of Canada’s Job Bank within 30 days (unless they have a qualifying offer of arranged employment or a confirmed nomination under a Provincial Nominee Program Express Entry stream).

the Minimum Entry Criteria refers to the Immigration program invited to apply for (ie CEC, FSW or FST) not the EE process.

Agreed.. But you may be ignoring something here.. You were accepted into the pool as the system awarded you points for 1 full year. This happened because it picks up only the months for calculations. (There are several threads on this forum on this calculation system, in one of them Asivad explained the situation with great clarity).

You yourself agreed that in reality you have not completed 1 calendar year min work experience requirement.. Therefore you have not met the MEC. Rest is your choice really.

 

[JoacRy]

Agreed.. But you may be ignoring something here.. You were accepted into the pool as the system awarded you points for 1 full year. This happened because it picks up only the months for calculations. (There are several threads on this forum on this calculation system, in one of them Asivad explained the situation with great clarity).

You yourself agreed that in reality you have not completed 1 calendar year min work experience requirement.. Therefore you have not met the MEC. Rest is your choice really.

Sorry I should add that I was invited under the 'FSW' class and have 8.5 years in my country working in my field. If no EE, then my Canadian experience would not count regardless. I take your point though if I was invited under CEC, different story entirely. Hence I think I do meet the MEC for the FSW Program.

 

[snail]

If you've been invited under few and without your Canadian experience you have enough points apply now, if you don't have enough points send in your application the day after you hit 365 days and get a new letter from your employer dated the day you hit 365 saying you are currently employed. If all the dates-the date you apply and the date on your letter match up saying it's definitely been more than a year you will be fine. They recalculate your points after you apply.

 

[JGILL16]

Hello,

As per cic, you have to submit document to support for what you have claimed points for which is one year of work experience in ur case. If you can submit reference letter saying that you have worked for one year while submitting appilication, you are good to go.

Just my opinion. Seniors can advise.

 

[ifeedly]

you got invited....You Apply..... END of Story.

calculating hours will also takes into account holidays, vacations, Sick days and other blah blah.

you are good to go.
stop contacting CIC uselessly. when the tiger is not bothering you, do you really need to throw stones at the tiger?

have you manipulated the hours you put in your profile? if not then why worry?

Remember to not misrepresent yourself. They find out you go downhill.
how they know the hours worked? very simple, you income and you salary per hour. Or they will just ask your employer by calling them or they can ask you to submit the letter saying you are a full time permanent employee who works this many hours.

CIC does not provide Non-answers, they just cant deal with people asking random questions. because answering questions is time consuming and they dont have that much staff.
they have already provided answers when they gave you guidelines.
you need personal attention, CIC advises you to go to lawyers and consultants.

 

[SecularFirst]

You cannot calculate number of hours worked by dividing your salary to your wages. You get double wages if you work on national holidays and weekends. Plus if some weeks you take some extra days off and some weeks you work overtime, you cannot compute number of hours worked that way from your salary.

 

[ifeedly]

exactly the point.
its a fluidic situation.