PGWP or Convocation

[gladaki]

Ok, I am not posting this question again but there are so conflicting views on it. One of my friend asked me if he is eligible for CEC..His case is similar to mine..Following are dates

Passed and fulfil the requirement of course : 7th May 2011
June convocation : Didnt attended it because he thinks november one is big
July: Started working from 11 July 2011
PWGP:Arrived after 3 months 7th October 2011
Convocation : November 2011
Applied to CEC 11th October 2012
Till now: He is waiting for MR

So BIG Question is he eligible under CEC ? I really cant give him answer because of conflicting views on this forum. If you are telling that they rejected people previously because of convocation in november. Please share the link. I really dont want to pass any wrong information on this topic though I inquired from my lawyer friend he says Some VO counts exp before PGWP some counts after PGWP...but he is not aware of convocation degree formula ?

 

[chetanjit]

Make sure he mentioned in the cover letter that he full filled the requirement in August and attached letter of completion from the university. My got rejected because I did the same thing and VO calculated my experience from date of my graduation.

 

[gladaki]

Make sure he mentioned in the cover letter that he full filled the requirement in August and attached letter of completion from the university. My got rejected because I did the same thing and VO calculated my experience from date of my graduation.

When you say graduation do u mean convocation. Can you please post exact date and tell what he thought , can u share the dates of your work exp after PGWP..and other dates

 

[SenoritaBella]

Unfortunately, your friend's application will likely be rejected. According to the rules last year, the work experience counts from when you have obtained a Canadian Education credential(i.e. after your graduation ceremony) and working on a post-graduate work permit. Until you have your graduation ceremony, you are considered a graduand(a candidate for a degree).

Let's assume he graduated on November 22, 2011, he should have applied anytime after November 22, 2012. The decision to delay his graduation may just come back to bite him hard. I don't know anyone who isn't excited to get it over with - you can have a big party. Some people even graduate in absentia(i.e. not present for the ceremony but their degree is conferred and mailed to them). I had a graduation too, and the ceremony itself isn't that big a deal.

Also, if he applied in October before the graduation ceremony, he obviously did not include a copy of his degree. Chances are the officer will ask for it and from the date, will reject the application.

The rules for applying for a post-graduate work permit require confirmation of having completed degree requirements and is separate from the rules for CEC which actually require that you have the degree/diploma in your hand.

 

[gladaki]

Unfortunately, your friend's application will likely be rejected. According to the rules last year, the work experience counts from when you have obtained a Canadian Education credential(i.e. after your graduation ceremony) and working on a post-graduate work permit. Until you have your graduation ceremony, you are considered a graduand(a candidate for a degree).

Let's assume he graduated on November 22, 2011, he should have applied anytime after November 22, 2012. The decision to delay his graduation may just come back to bite him hard. I don't know anyone who isn't excited to get it over with - you can have a big party. Some people even graduate in absentia(i.e. not present for the ceremony but their degree is conferred and mailed to them). I had a graduation too, and the ceremony itself isn't that big a deal.

Also, if he applied in October before the graduation ceremony, he obviously did not include a copy of his degree. Chances are the officer will ask for it and from the date, will reject the application.

The rules for applying for a post-graduate work permit require confirmation of having completed degree requirements and is separate from the rules for CEC which actually require that you have the degree/diploma in your hand.

Well I will update you his results but I highly doubt this will be the case. Can you point out thread where person got rejected for this

 

[se7en]

Common sense to be used here. Once your course is finished and you get the PGWP, you are no more a student. Your status is changed now to a worker. Convocation doesn't matter as it is just a ceremony. So basically the work experience starts after you get your PGWP. Hope it is cleared

 

[SenoritaBella]

Search this forum, you will find people who have been rejected.

Common sense to be used here. Once your course is finished and you get the PGWP, you are no more a student. Your status is changed now to a worker. Convocation doesn't matter as it is just a ceremony. So basically the work experience starts after you get your PGWP. Hope it is cleared

 

[gladaki]

Search this forum, you will find people who have been rejected.

I tried searching, is there any link for it

 

[nicole1006]

Ok, I am not posting this question again but there are so conflicting views on it. One of my friend asked me if he is eligible for CEC..His case is similar to mine..Following are dates

Passed and fulfil the requirement of course : 7th May 2011
June convocation : Didnt attended it because he thinks november one is big
July: Started working from 11 July 2011
PWGP:Arrived after 3 months 7th October 2011
Convocation : November 2011
Applied to CEC 11th October 2012
Till now: He is waiting for MR

So BIG Question is he eligible under CEC ? I really cant give him answer because of conflicting views on this forum. If you are telling that they rejected people previously because of convocation in november. Please share the link. I really dont want to pass any wrong information on this topic though I inquired from my lawyer friend he says Some VO counts exp before PGWP some counts after PGWP...but he is not aware of convocation degree formula ?

Just a quick question, we only have 90days transition period to work on ocwp right ? But since your friend worked longer than that time... So, I don't know...

 

[SenoritaBella]

Here you go: http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/-t132570.0.html

I've posted the OP's quote from that thread below for convenience:

The visa officer counted valid work experience from Oct 2010(when degree was conferred) not Aug 2010(when the post-graduate work permit(PGWP) was issued).

In summary:
1. if PGWP is issued May 5, 2010, graduation ceremony on June 20, 2010 - begin counting CEC work experience from June 21, 2010.
2 If PGWP issued Aug 2, 2010, graduation ceremony on June 14, 2010 - begin counting work experience from Aug 3, 2010(b/c only experience obtained on PGWP is counted towards CEC).

This is the only sure way to be approved, otherwise you are simply taking a gamble which will likely result in rejection.

I've read quite some posts in this forum but am still confused. Hope my case can help people whose experience involves being research/teaching assistants, and/or work experiences obtained under PGWP.

Experience:

May 2010: Master Degree completed (but no diploma issued yet); started to work full-time (under off-campus work permit) on a NOC A job;
August 2010: A 3-year Post graduate work permit issued;
October 2010: Master degree certificate/diploma conferred;
Sept 2011: left job to go back school for full-time PHD study; applied for PR under CEC, got rejected because valid work experience is about 10 months (Oct 2010 - August 2011) < 12 months full time;
Oct 2012: started to work part-time (10 hours/week) for the same NOC A job (for the same employer as before) using my PGWP while still attending full-time PHD study;

Also I've been a teaching/research assistant from Sept 2011 till now, working 10 hours/week under a on-campus study permit.

It seems under the new act any work experience obtained as a full-time student does not count. But I really would like to find out any possibility to re-apply before my IELTS expires in June 2013. Does anyone have any idea?


PS: I am thinking of not mentioning so clearly that I am a full-time student now, so that the part-time work experience (NOC A for previous employer) since Oct 2012 could count. Is this necessary? Also I've heard rumors saying the PGWP automatically becomes invalid when you apply for a study permit, is that true?

Thanks everyone for viewing and providing comments!

I tried searching, is there any link for it

 

[SenoritaBella]

@ nicole1006, I recall you had some worries about your GCMS notes and here's my take on your situation:

My understanding is once you finish school and apply for a PGWP before your study permit and OCWP permit expire, you have implied status and can continue to work(for the same employer) until a decision is made on your application. If PGWP approved, you begin working with it. If rejected, you must stop working and look into restoration of status.

They expect students to surrender their OCWP whenever they are no longer students. I assume it would be very important for people whose OCWP is still valid when they get their PGWP to surrender their OCWP. Makes sense because if both work permits are valid and you didn't surrender the OCWP, how does the officer know when or that you switched over to PGWP(immediately)?

Was your OCWP still valid when you received the PGWP? If so, this may be the reason they have that comment(did not surrender OCWP) in your GCMS notes. The officer is probably questioning whether you switched over to your PGWP immediately or continued working with the OCWP until it expired before switching over to PGWP. This is important because any period you continued working with the OCWP(despite having a PGWP or when your PGWP was refused in April 2011) will not be counted towards your CEC experience.

Not to scare you but it's possible your application may be transferred to the local CIC office in your city for further verification. Whenever people are hired, they have to provide documents(including work permits) to their employer before starting the job. You may want to ask your employer for copies of what you submitted initially and afterward and dates they were received or recorded in their system. As long as the evidence you get proves that you switched over to PGWP immediately and have one year skilled work experience on a PGWP, you should be fine. Otherwise, it doesn't look good. Oh, and take the evidence you get from work to your lawyer to review before sending it to the visa office(if at all necessary).

Just a quick question, we only have 90days transition period to work on ocwp right ? But since your friend worked longer than that time... So, I don't know...

 

[nicole1006]

@ nicole1006, I recall you had some worries about your GCMS notes and here's my take on your situation:

My understanding is once you finish school and apply for a PGWP before your study permit and OCWP permit expire, you have implied status and can continue to work(for the same employer) until a decision is made on your application. If PGWP approved, you begin working with it. If rejected, you must stop working and look into restoration of status.

They expect students to surrender their OCWP whenever they are no longer students. I assume one instance it would be applicable is for people whose OCWP is still valid when they get their PGWP? Makes sense because if both work permits are valid and you didn't surrender your OCWP, how does the officer know when or that you switched over to PGWP(immediately)?


Was your OCWP still valid when you received the PGWP? If so, this may be the reason they have that comment(did not surrender OCWP) in your GCMS notes. The officer is probably questioning whether you switched over to your PGWP immediately or continued working with the OCWP until it expired before switching over to PGWP. This is important because any period you continued working with the OCWP will not be counted towards your CEC experience.

Not to scare you but it's possible your application may be transferred to the local CIC office in your city for further verification. Whenever people are hired, they have to provide documents(including work permits) to their employer before starting the job. You may want to ask your employer for copies of what you submitted initially and afterward and dates they were received or recorded in their system. As long as the evidence you get proves that you switched over to PGWP immediately and have one year skilled work experience on a PGWP, you should be fine. Otherwise, it doesn't look good for you. Oh, and take the evidence you get from work to your lawyer to review before sending it to the visa office(if at all necessary).

I applied my post undergraduate work permit in march, but I did. Not include my transcript in it at that time, so I got refused in April 2011, But I i really did not know I needed to stop working at that time, as I thought my off campus still valid until it is expeird (aug 2011). But I reapplied my pgwp in June 2011, and got it in aug 2011. Since that I started working under pgwp, I applied my cec in aug 2012, which I have one year working experience aside from the off campus work permit, now my case is still in process, with a recommended passed in my eligibility.... I am so scared... I really don't know what to do... And I feel like my lawyer does not even care about me.... He said as long as they did not complain, I am ok.... But I don't know.... Anyone can help me with that ?

 

[gladaki]

Just a quick question, we only have 90days transition period to work on ocwp right ? But since your friend worked longer than that time... So, I don't know...

He didn't worked more than 90 day. But any way if his is getting rejected then I am too for same reasons since both of our convocation was in November . I should probably start making new package ..

 

[SenoritaBella]

I get the situation now. Your OCWP was still valid when they rejected the PGWP in April 2011. In that case, you still had legal status and could continue working. You would have had to stop working if they rejected the PGWP after your OCWP had expired, but this isn't applicable to your situation. So you did not work illegally.
Was your OCWP still valid when you received your PGWP in Aug 2011? May be the officer was expecting you to surrender it. In anycase, they said "recommended pass", so nothing you can do but to wait. Also, if you don't feel your lawyer cares about your case, perhaps consider finding another one?

I applied my post undergraduate work permit in march, but I did. Not include my transcript in it at that time, so I got refused in April 2011, But I i really did not know I needed to stop working at that time, as I thought my off campus still valid until it is expeird (aug 2011). But I reapplied my pgwp in June 2011, and got it in aug 2011. Since that I started working under pgwp, I applied my cec in aug 2012, which I have one year working experience aside from the off campus work permit, now my case is still in process, with a recommended passed in my eligibility.... I am so scared... I really don't know what to do... And I feel like my lawyer does not even care about me.... He said as long as they did not complain, I am ok.... But I don't know.... Anyone can help me with that ?

 

[gladaki]

Here you go: http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/-t132570.0.html

I've posted the OP's quote from that thread below for convenience:

The visa officer counted valid work experience from Oct 2010(when degree was conferred) not Aug 2010(when the post-graduate work permit(PGWP) was issued).

In summary:
1. if PGWP is issued May 5, 2010, graduation ceremony on June 20, 2010 - begin counting CEC work experience from June 21, 2010.
2 If PGWP issued Aug 2, 2010, graduation ceremony on June 14, 2010 - begin counting work experience from Aug 3, 2010(b/c only experience obtained on PGWP is counted towards CEC).

This is the only sure way to be approved, otherwise you are simply taking a gamble which will likely result in rejection.

Senorita, Thanks for posting this..After looking at this..I am sure application will be rejected...I will start preparing for another package. Its again a lot of work but probably my mistake never thought that convocation date is what they focus on.

I send them transcripts which states that I graduated in April 2011 now I never send them my convocation degree ..which I ended up sending last week...which says nov 2011 seems I did sucide