PGP 2020

[TicTocCroc]

It is very likely it will happen in the first half of 2021.

"Lots" of people. How many? I doubt it will go from 204,000 to 300,000. Probably maybe another 20-30k more at most if even at all.

What is fair?

I prefer not to argue on the fairness bit. Because if you use that then lottery is the most random non discriminating non biased totally by chance and luck method. Which to many Canadians is the fairest way.

What I would argue is that lotteries are games. You do not find the use of lotteries as a way to distribute important serious resources to people anywhere.

Except in the PGP.

Lotteries are used as games. Fun. Eg of lotteries. Lotto. NHL draft pick lottery (hockey is a game). NBA draft. Princess Margaret Lottery.

So my question is whether IRCC sees PGP as a game. Trivial. Fun.

Argue on that point and you probably get less rebuttals from Canadians who will say hey actually the lottery is the fairest way.

Forget fair.

Is PGP serious and important? If it is why use a gaming format to distribute the spots? It is an insult to people wanting to reunite with families and cruel. Practically laughing in their faces. Is it a joke to them?

use this. It is better IMHO.

This is an excellent point! And the numbers can't really go up by many, as the same tax returns are required for both draws.

 

[Aspiring Canadian]

I have a few questions/thoughts please feel free to elaborate.

1) when can we realistically expect parents to be landed with copr in Canada for the 2021 pgp process? Is December 2021 a realistic timeline?(assuming they get invited of course)

2) could there be a chance that a federal election further delays everything?

3) would 2021 also be a lottery or could they implement a fairer system this year such as time spent in Canada etc

 

[scylla]

I have a few questions/thoughts please feel free to elaborate.

1) when can we realistically expect parents to be landed with copr in Canada for the 2021 pgp process? Is December 2021 a realistic timeline?(assuming they get invited of course)

2) could there be a chance that a federal election further delays everything?

3) would 2021 also be a lottery or could they implement a fairer system this year such as time spent in Canada etc

1) I don't think Dec 2021 is realistic given most spousal sponsorship applications aren't even being processed within 1 year. I think it will be 2022 for most parents.

2) Unlikely an election would delay the 2021 draw. However if any class action lawsuits more forward related to the 2020 draw, that could possibly delay the 2021 draw.

3) IMO it will either be lottery or FIFO. They won't introduce something new. Anything like years spent in Canada, etc. will create too much overhead and complexity to administrate. They will stick with something simple. Just my opinion.

 

[jotgrewal]

I have a few questions/thoughts please feel free to elaborate.

1) when can we realistically expect parents to be landed with copr in Canada for the 2021 pgp process? Is December 2021 a realistic timeline?(assuming they get invited of course)

2) could there be a chance that a federal election further delays everything?

3) would 2021 also be a lottery or could they implement a fairer system this year such as time spent in Canada etc

no one can predict about any of these, there is no timeline yet to even launch the PGP2021, let alone to finalize it, based on past years, it takes anywhere between 1 year to 2 years after submission of completed application (after the invitations)

 

[jotgrewal]

Hello,

I need quick help.

Ques-1) in 2018 when me and my wife filed our permanent residency through express entry then my wife was main applicant. Do in that case I’ve considered as being sponsored. Our status before applying was on work permit here.

Ques-2) I’ve got a invitation for my parents in latest draw.
In Imm 1344 form
Question 5 of sponsor eligibility assessment says
In the 5 years preceding this application, did you become a permanent resident after being sponsored as a spouse, common-law or conjugal partner?"
(If you answer "yes" to question 5 and you are sponsoring a spouse, common-law or conjugal partner , you are not eligible to sponsor and you should not submit your application)

so if answer is yes to my 1st question that I’m considered as sponsored then answer to my question 2 is also yes. So in that case is I’m eligible to sponsor my parents?
It says I can’t sponsor spouse or common law but nothing about parents.
And in parents eligibility there are only 3 things- age, Pr/citizen and income- which I have all 3.

If you and your wife applied at same time (she being the PA and you as dependent) then that is not considered a sponsorship, hope this answer your Q1 & Q2

 

[jotgrewal]

PGP 2020 Summary

Total Applications: 203,213
Total Invitations: 13,400 (Before you ask: Yes, I counted!) 6.59 %

IRCC has accounted for 3400 numbskulls (that's over 25%) who will not meet the minimum requirements. So don't be angry at the people who took a deserving candidate's spot or IRCC for that matter.

Stay positive, at this rate they will invite more than 40000 applicants to meet their 30000 quota for PGP 2021. Even if the # of applications go up to 250,000 its gives you a 16% chance of getting selected.

IRCC is not very transparent about the final ourcome of these invitations, as to how many finally met the requirements out of those invited and what is the backlog or how many were not approved (reached COPR stage), not to politicize it but since Liberals came into power the stats canada stopped providing the quaterly updates on the IRCC processing.

 

[nayr69sg]

I have a few questions/thoughts please feel free to elaborate.

1) when can we realistically expect parents to be landed with copr in Canada for the 2021 pgp process? Is December 2021 a realistic timeline?(assuming they get invited of course)

2) could there be a chance that a federal election further delays everything?

3) would 2021 also be a lottery or could they implement a fairer system this year such as time spent in Canada etc

1) Realistically expect landing with COPR probably at least after 11-12 months from date of submission of actual application

2) Always a possibility although usually does not happen. Also if the incumbent govt wins there is no change usually to the programs. And it is still likely that Trudeau will win any election today.

3) 2021 is also a lottery. What is considered "fairer" than a lottery? Almost nothing. Don't try to lobby based on fairness. Lobby than the current lottery system makes PGP allocation a game which is an insult to people looking to sponsor their parents. It is ridiculing family reunification making it a trivial process and a sport. This should not be allowed to continue. Find another system.

 

[DarKW]

1) Realistically expect landing with COPR probably at least after 11-12 months from date of submission of actual application

2) Always a possibility although usually does not happen. Also if the incumbent govt wins there is no change usually to the programs. And it is still likely that Trudeau will win any election today.

3) 2021 is also a lottery. What is considered "fairer" than a lottery? Almost nothing. Don't try to lobby based on fairness. Lobby than the current lottery system makes PGP allocation a game which is an insult to people looking to sponsor their parents. It is ridiculing family reunification making it a trivial process and a sport. This should not be allowed to continue. Find another system.

I cannot agree more with your posts @nayr69sg like i wish they put just a little bit thought about this process. Here is something that will solve the issue for everyone, i know a lot of people are not going to like this but this is just my opinion, Make the LICO mandatory for 5 years MINIMUM we won't have more than 50 thousand applications next time. Second POOL THE APPLICANTS in the same batch if i applied in 2016 keep my application number with people who applied in 2016 i can wait 2-3 years for my turn. 3rd put a fee $500 that alone will deter all those who are not sure if they should apply or not and make it NON REFUNDABLE. Just keep updating the numbers on the website let us know what numbers you are processing everyone will be happy they will know they are in line and everyone gets to apply in timely manner instead of hoping to win a LOTTO MAX and being a looser everytime

 

[nayr69sg]

I cannot agree more with your posts @nayr69sg like i wish they put just a little bit thought about this process. Here is something that will solve the issue for everyone, i know a lot of people are not going to like this but this is just my opinion, Make the LICO mandatory for 5 years MINIMUM we won't have more than 50 thousand applications next time. Second POOL THE APPLICANTS in the same batch if i applied in 2016 keep my application number with people who applied in 2016 i can wait 2-3 years for my turn. 3rd put a fee $500 that alone will deter all those who are not sure if they should apply or not and make it NON REFUNDABLE. Just keep updating the numbers on the website let us know what numbers you are processing everyone will be happy they will know they are in line and everyone gets to apply in timely manner instead of hoping to win a LOTTO MAX and being a looser everytime

You can't please everyone.

I agree with the rationale behind your suggestions. But then there will be other people who will disagree. Especially those who have just come to Canada or been here <5 years. And people who cannot afford $500.

There is no one system that will please everyone.

Now the thing with the lottery is so far it is the best option that IRCC can find that seems to stay out of trouble.

And the reason is because people who are angry with the lottery are going about complaining that it isn't fair. This is a mistake. Because if you argue on fairness what is not fair about a plain old simple lottery? Then Lotto Max isn't fair? Come on.

So that's the problem. People are going about making their unhappiness known to IRCC the wrong way.

Stop arguing that the lottery is not fair. In fact it is the most fair way. Total random allocation.

If enough people got angry that the lottery was trivializing and ridiculing families for their desires and efforts to reunify then they might listen and scrap it. In fact maybe some Canadians will also say hey yeah stop making people's lives into a game ok! It is not nice.

What then replaces the lottery is the big question. But until you get them to say yes this lottery is very bad they will not change.

They tried with FIFO. They got sued! So they went back to lottery where nobody can sue.

Unfortunately the way I read it, the lottery is here to stay. Least risk of lawsuit. Meaning it is actually very fair.

Can we sue for government turning our lives into a game? I dunno.

 

[DarKW]

You can't please everyone.

I agree with the rationale behind your suggestions. But then there will be other people who will disagree. Especially those who have just come to Canada or been here <5 years. And people who cannot afford $500.

There is no one system that will please everyone.

Now the thing with the lottery is so far it is the best option that IRCC can find that seems to stay out of trouble.

And the reason is because people who are angry with the lottery are going about complaining that it isn't fair. This is a mistake. Because if you argue on fairness what is not fair about a plain old simple lottery? Then Lotto Max isn't fair? Come on.

So that's the problem. People are going about making their unhappiness known to IRCC the wrong way.

Stop arguing that the lottery is not fair. In fact it is the most fair way. Total random allocation.

If enough people got angry that the lottery was trivializing and ridiculing families for their desires and efforts to reunify then they might listen and scrap it. In fact maybe some Canadians will also say hey yeah stop making people's lives into a game ok! It is not nice.

What then replaces the lottery is the big question. But until you get them to say yes this lottery is very bad they will not change.

They tried with FIFO. They got sued! So they went back to lottery where nobody can sue.

Unfortunately the way I read it, the lottery is here to stay. Least risk of lawsuit. Meaning it is actually very fair.

Can we sue for government turning our lives into a game? I dunno.

The only people who probably will disagree with this are those who do not meet 5 years LICO. No one complained like this under last conservative government even when the times on average were 5-7 years. Here after 5 years a lot of us are still HOPING to get picked this year. Maybe it is time for a new government if they cannot make difficult decisions. FIFO was not a very good idea either just draft a criteria and follow it they should have had done it the very first year they came. Then again no one is serious about PGP thus nothing has been done to it since a long time now the major focus here is only bringing in more and more students, workers and their spouses that's it. Again if they had a criteria on who can apply and when can they apply a lot of us would not be sitting here complaining. I bet you next government would 100% scrap this idea, they will either stop it completely or overhaul it, at least there will be some fairness to it. There are thousands of people on facebook and twitter complaining about unfairness of the system and how it has been put on the back burner for so long now

 

[nayr69sg]

The only people who probably will disagree with this are those who do not meet 5 years LICO. No one complained like this under last conservative government even when the times on average were 5-7 years. Here after 5 years a lot of us are still HOPING to get picked this year. Maybe it is time for a new government if they cannot make difficult decisions. FIFO was not a very good idea either just draft a criteria and follow it they should have had done it the very first year they came. Then again no one is serious about PGP thus nothing has been done to it since a long time now the major focus here is only bringing in more and more students, workers and their spouses that's it. Again if they had a criteria on who can apply and when can they apply a lot of us would not be sitting here complaining. I bet you next government would 100% scrap this idea, they will either stop it completely or overhaul it, at least there will be some fairness to it. There are thousands of people on facebook and twitter complaining about unfairness of the system and how it has been put on the back burner for so long now

Complaining takes a long time for change to take place.

You get immediate results with lawsuits.

But be careful. I think if IRCC got sued for the lottery then say bye to the PGP altogether.

 

[prcanada]

Complaining takes a long time for change to take place.

You get immediate results with lawsuits.

But be careful. I think if IRCC got sued for the lottery then say bye to the PGP altogether.

Yes but this is a good way for govt to rethink this process if they get sued. At least we should try this.
And as long they need our votes, they wont scrap this program

 

[wickerman]

I think it is unfair that they are asking for 1 year of LICO for Quebec but 3 years for the other provinces. Others find the lottery unfair. Certain others find FIFO unfair.

The only thing that everyone will find fair is for Canada to admit all parents and grandparents, but it is something Canada cannot afford to do so.

It is one of those things with no ideal solutions in my opinion.

 

[nayr69sg]

Yes but this is a good way for govt to rethink this process if they get sued. At least we should try this.
And as long they need our votes, they wont scrap this program

To their credit they did listen and did change to the FIFO. But the FIFO being a competition made it unfair.

Any form of merit will carry the risk of being "unfair". There is no end to it.

So if we go on being 'fair' then the more likely they will keep the lottery.

Which is why I prefer not to argue on fairness.

Why is there a LICO to begin with? The strange thing is they won't allow income levels to be a determinant by merit though because that is "unfair".

Very hard to please everyone.

First step is to get them to end the lottery as a viable option. Then they have to work and come up with a more reasonable program.

 

[nayr69sg]

I think it is unfair that they are asking for 1 year of LICO for Quebec but 3 years for the other provinces. Others find the lottery unfair. Certain others find FIFO unfair.

The only thing that everyone will find fair is for Canada to admit all parents and grandparents, but it is something Canada cannot afford to do so.

It is one of those things with no ideal solutions in my opinion.

Quebec will always be a different story than the rest of Canada.

Quebec will always want to do things their way different from the rest of Canada.

Most recently....

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/pfizer-could-withdraw-vaccine-supply-from-quebec-if-two-dose-schedule-not-followed-legault-1.5262256

"But if we have the choice, and we want it to be the government of Quebec that makes that choice, we prefer vaccinating more people [with a first-dose-priority system]."

Quebec will always want to be different and have its own ideas.

I think there should be a separate lottery for Quebec and the rest of Canada.

One can guess that there are far more applicants from Quebec since it is easier to qualify based on just 1 year of LICO which is lower than the Federal LICO anyway. How many of the 13,000+ are from Quebec?