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Out of status as work permit refuse, but got COPR, Can I flagpole?

PositiveEnergy

Hero Member
Aug 3, 2019
482
74
Hello Everyone,

I had post-graduate work-permit, which was expired in OCT 2017. I applied to extend work-permit, but got refused and lost status and had to leave job. I have applied again to restore status and work-permit both and it is in process right now.

But in between that I got my Confirmation of PR (COPR).

So, My question is, Can i have any trouble in landing at Canada/US border as currently i have no status in Canada but have applied for restoration.

Is that ok, if I show border officer proof that I have applied for restoration?[/QUOTE]
Hello Everyone,

I had post-graduate work-permit, which was expired in OCT 2017. I applied to extend work-permit, but got refused and lost status and had to leave job. I have applied again to restore status and work-permit both and it is in process right now.

But in between that I got my Confirmation of PR (COPR).

So, My question is, Can i have any trouble in landing at Canada/US border as currently i have no status in Canada but have applied for restoration.

Is that ok, if I show border officer proof that I have applied for restoration?

Hi bro,

Were you able to solve your restoration status problem?
 

PositiveEnergy

Hero Member
Aug 3, 2019
482
74
My wife too has the same problem. WE are in process of getting COPR soon. We have applied for Restoration of status and have the application copy and payment receipt ready. Can anybody explain the process please. CIC website is confusing in some cases.
Hi,
Were you able to solve this problem you had?
 

Agbaboi1

Member
Dec 28, 2021
12
1
To be clear, I am NO expert. Moreover, even experts cannot reliably forecast future events involving multiple contingencies.

As I previously stated, the observation posted by @Rob_TO, well over a year ago, pretty much says all that needs to said about being out-of-status or overstaying relative to an individual who has, in the meantime, been granted a PR visa.

Of course that does not cover a wide range of other contingencies, especially contingencies BEFORE a PR visa or CoPR has actually been issued. Especially contingencies which could possibly affect whether the individual is actually issued authorization to land as a PR.

Beyond that, it can be more complicated. For the vast majority, however, there is no reason to worry so long as there are no removal proceedings underway.

But as usual there are some low-likelihood possibilities lurking in this or that particular circumstance, so there are no guarantees. The likelihood of a problem is so low I hesitate to even address them further. Moreover, this subject is off-topic here and better asked in the conference where matters related to immigrating to Canada are discussed. Additionally, I have NOT kept current with many of the issues related to the immigration stage . . . I almost exclusively participate in this PR Residency Obligations conference and the Citizenship conference.


But sure, I understand (been there, done that) it is hard to shake some worry when an individual does not currently have status. That is breaking the rules. Probably more serious than overtime parking, except there is no fine. But to some extent it is a technical breach of the rules and in itself ordinarily is not problematic so long as it can be easily cured and is cured. Going past the flagpole does that. (For someone who has not been issued a PR visa, sure it can still have a big impact on any future application to enter Canada or for status in Canada, since a past overstay is at least an indication the individual is more likely to overstay again, and is also evidence the individual is more likely to not comply with the rules . . . but other than its evidentiary influence, there is NO legal consequence once the overstay is cured by simply exiting Canada.)

So, understanding that sure, some worry about this can be nagging and hard to shake, I will offer some further observations . . . with the CAVEAT that I am NOT an expert and NOT particularly current in these matters . . .

Remember, almost all IRCC decisions remain conditional or contingent until the decision results in an actual action. Even the issuance of a PR visa does necessarily result in the individual being able to land and complete the process of becoming a PR. A change in circumstances, certain specific circumstances, can result in the cancellation of a decision-made (for example, an individual who marries after being issued a PR visa and before landing, and it turns out the spouse is inadmissible to Canada, will not be able to land and become a PR . . . unless the spouse's inadmissibility can be cured).

That observation, as to the contingency of IRCC decisions, should NOT be of much concern, and of almost NO concern for the vast majority of IRCC clients. The key is that unless and until the deed-is-done, so to say, there is NO guarantee. For the vast majority, a decision-made means a very, very high probability the matter will proceed so as to effect that decision.

The discussion above confirms that merely being out-of-status or overstaying does not, not in itself, disrupt the process once a decision to grant PR has been made . . . so such an individual can simply exit Canada and return virtually immediately, the overstay is cured, not an issue.

If, however, an individual already has had proceedings started to remove or deport him or her, that is a different situation. Thus, for example, what would happen to such an individual who has just sent off his or her passport, and that individual for some reason got entangled in an interaction with Canadian authorities that also involved CBSA, with CBSA determining the individual was in Canada without legal status, I cannot say. The likelihood of suddenly getting entangled in deportation proceedings for overstaying seems remote . . . but sooner or later, many individuals overstaying are pulled into deportation proceedings (such as being reported by a disgruntled acquaintance or a neighbour or former landlord or employer). It happens.

If that happens while a PR visa application is pending, that probably precludes a grant of PR (with some exceptions). If that happens after there is a decision-made to grant PR but before the individual obtains the actual visa or CoPR, I do NOT know how that might affect the validity of the visa.

But for an individual who is NOT currently involved in removal proceedings, who is merely one among hundreds of thousands of individuals in Canada without status (the vast majority of whom stayed beyond the expiration of status), there is very little reason to worry about that so long as the individual can exit Canada and cure the overstay . . . and for the individual issued a PR visa/CoPR, that can be accomplished by simply flag-poling.
I am unfortunately in this position as we speak.

I applied for restoration of status on and work permit the 27th of September 2021. I applied 5 days after the 90 days period because I lacked information and was given the wrong info as a trusted person had told me once I apply for my PR I will have implied status until a decision is made. Not knowing I actually had to apply to maintain that status....SMH!

Now I have gotten an email that my PR is approved and I was sent the portal request and a separate email as well saying that it may seem that one of the applicants in my file is inadmissible in Canada due to overstay.

I called IRCC today and the very nice agent I spoke to says that what he could see internally, there has been no adverse note. I had also wrote a letter of explanation as to why I submitted late. I have had nothing from them yet since submission.
The second email I had gotten said they cannot land me as a PR holder while out of status. Everything I have read online in the last few days about flagpooling seems to deter people from using that for this because one could be denied entry as by regulations you would have left the country.

My application is stuck and I would appreciate any insight!

Thank you.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,485
3,249
I am unfortunately in this position as we speak.

I applied for restoration of status on and work permit the 27th of September 2021. I applied 5 days after the 90 days period because I lacked information and was given the wrong info as a trusted person had told me once I apply for my PR I will have implied status until a decision is made. Not knowing I actually had to apply to maintain that status....SMH!

Now I have gotten an email that my PR is approved and I was sent the portal request and a separate email as well saying that it may seem that one of the applicants in my file is inadmissible in Canada due to overstay.

I called IRCC today and the very nice agent I spoke to says that what he could see internally, there has been no adverse note. I had also wrote a letter of explanation as to why I submitted late. I have had nothing from them yet since submission.
The second email I had gotten said they cannot land me as a PR holder while out of status. Everything I have read online in the last few days about flagpooling seems to deter people from using that for this because one could be denied entry as by regulations you would have left the country.

My application is stuck and I would appreciate any insight!
This is an older thread, and a discussion subject to some significant changes over time. Inland PR applications and related landing procedures, for example, have changed. And I personally have not been following matters related to becoming a PR much for some time, so my understanding of the process is rusty, dated. Even when I was more engaged in matters related to becoming a PR, inland applications were all but limited to family class sponsorships.

Moreover, the particular situation you describe depends on key details and particular procedures specific to your individual case, which is beyond the scope of what can be effectively addressed in an open forum setting like this, which is necessarily limited to general information, not personal advice (I realize there is no shortage of questions seeking personal advice, and no shortage of such advice proffered, but that is a recipe for disaster).

A lawyer should be able to review all your paperwork and IRCC communications, and the details in your particular situation, and give you a definitive opinion including advice on what to do next, and how to do that. Just a consultation (which still is not cheap; free consultations are worth what you pay for) should suffice, if it specifically involves the lawyer reviewing the details in your actual case.

That is NOT to say, not for sure, the situation is problematic enough you actually need to see a lawyer. I don't know.

I would have said that it might help just to go over the case with someone you trust who is familiar with immigration and bureaucratic procedures generally, someone who could help you read and assess the information you have. Many times just an extra set of eyes can be a big help. But it appears your go to source was not particularly reliable (that said, there is a lot of misunderstanding about implied status, so that mistake alone does not suggest the source should be entirely dismissed).

Some Observations with a bit of SPECULATING, some GUESSING: Emphasis on GUESSING.

If a PR visa has been issued, flagpoling should be OK. BUT it is my understanding that issuing a PR visa is not the procedure now used for inland applications. A decision approving a grant of PR status is still significantly short of being issued a grant of status, and even that is short of becoming a PR unless and until the landing procedure is completed (which I understand not only has changed for inland applicants generally but is also subject to temporary measures in response to the pandemic).

Without a PR visa, or some other specific authorization to enter Canada, flagpoling can indeed involve a risk of being denied entry. But here, again, the specific details in the individual's particular situation matter.

In particular, what can make a difference is the individual's actual status. While leaving Canada generally resolves an ongoing overstay, that can depend on whether any enforcement action has been initiated or related decision/determination made. So here too the precise details in regards to the "inadmissibility" are what matters.

If the individual has been determined to be inadmissible, the risk of being denied entry is very high, subject to nuances such as what happens when it involves a FN who cannot be sent back to the U.S.

For example, a FN (Foreign National, a non-Canadian) who has overstayed in Canada but who has not been adjudicated to be inadmissible, who leaves Canada and returns (flagpoling or coming back later), should have minimal risk of being denied entry if they are visa-exempt. If not visa-exempt, the risk of being denied entry is greater unless, of course, they have actually been issued a visa. With some nuances and variable outcomes depending on collateral circumstances (a visa exempt FN can be denied entry, for example, if border officials apprehend they will not comply with immigration laws, like working without a work permit).
 

Agbaboi1

Member
Dec 28, 2021
12
1
This is an older thread, and a discussion subject to some significant changes over time. Inland PR applications and related landing procedures, for example, have changed. And I personally have not been following matters related to becoming a PR much for some time, so my understanding of the process is rusty, dated. Even when I was more engaged in matters related to becoming a PR, inland applications were all but limited to family class sponsorships.

Moreover, the particular situation you describe depends on key details and particular procedures specific to your individual case, which is beyond the scope of what can be effectively addressed in an open forum setting like this, which is necessarily limited to general information, not personal advice (I realize there is no shortage of questions seeking personal advice, and no shortage of such advice proffered, but that is a recipe for disaster).

A lawyer should be able to review all your paperwork and IRCC communications, and the details in your particular situation, and give you a definitive opinion including advice on what to do next, and how to do that. Just a consultation (which still is not cheap; free consultations are worth what you pay for) should suffice, if it specifically involves the lawyer reviewing the details in your actual case.

That is NOT to say, not for sure, the situation is problematic enough you actually need to see a lawyer. I don't know.

I would have said that it might help just to go over the case with someone you trust who is familiar with immigration and bureaucratic procedures generally, someone who could help you read and assess the information you have. Many times just an extra set of eyes can be a big help. But it appears your go to source was not particularly reliable (that said, there is a lot of misunderstanding about implied status, so that mistake alone does not suggest the source should be entirely dismissed).

Some Observations with a bit of SPECULATING, some GUESSING: Emphasis on GUESSING.

If a PR visa has been issued, flagpoling should be OK. BUT it is my understanding that issuing a PR visa is not the procedure now used for inland applications. A decision approving a grant of PR status is still significantly short of being issued a grant of status, and even that is short of becoming a PR unless and until the landing procedure is completed (which I understand not only has changed for inland applicants generally but is also subject to temporary measures in response to the pandemic).

Without a PR visa, or some other specific authorization to enter Canada, flagpoling can indeed involve a risk of being denied entry. But here, again, the specific details in the individual's particular situation matter.

In particular, what can make a difference is the individual's actual status. While leaving Canada generally resolves an ongoing overstay, that can depend on whether any enforcement action has been initiated or related decision/determination made. So here too the precise details in regards to the "inadmissibility" are what matters.

If the individual has been determined to be inadmissible, the risk of being denied entry is very high, subject to nuances such as what happens when it involves a FN who cannot be sent back to the U.S.

For example, a FN (Foreign National, a non-Canadian) who has overstayed in Canada but who has not been adjudicated to be inadmissible, who leaves Canada and returns (flagpoling or coming back later), should have minimal risk of being denied entry if they are visa-exempt. If not visa-exempt, the risk of being denied entry is greater unless, of course, they have actually been issued a visa. With some nuances and variable outcomes depending on collateral circumstances (a visa exempt FN can be denied entry, for example, if border officials apprehend they will not comply with immigration laws, like working without a work permit).
WOW. I would like to say a very big thank you for taking out your time to give such a wonderful insight.

I spoke to a lawyer who told me to reply the email and give them exactly what they asked and also submit proof that I had applied to restore status even if it was late. He says he has had a few clients in the past with identical issues and they did get their PR confirmation after few days of replying to it. He says they knew about that before they even emailed me to say I was approved so keep the same energy in the reply. i just replied them and fingers crossed now.
 

Agbaboi1

Member
Dec 28, 2021
12
1
This is an older thread, and a discussion subject to some significant changes over time. Inland PR applications and related landing procedures, for example, have changed. And I personally have not been following matters related to becoming a PR much for some time, so my understanding of the process is rusty, dated. Even when I was more engaged in matters related to becoming a PR, inland applications were all but limited to family class sponsorships.

Moreover, the particular situation you describe depends on key details and particular procedures specific to your individual case, which is beyond the scope of what can be effectively addressed in an open forum setting like this, which is necessarily limited to general information, not personal advice (I realize there is no shortage of questions seeking personal advice, and no shortage of such advice proffered, but that is a recipe for disaster).

A lawyer should be able to review all your paperwork and IRCC communications, and the details in your particular situation, and give you a definitive opinion including advice on what to do next, and how to do that. Just a consultation (which still is not cheap; free consultations are worth what you pay for) should suffice, if it specifically involves the lawyer reviewing the details in your actual case.

That is NOT to say, not for sure, the situation is problematic enough you actually need to see a lawyer. I don't know.

I would have said that it might help just to go over the case with someone you trust who is familiar with immigration and bureaucratic procedures generally, someone who could help you read and assess the information you have. Many times just an extra set of eyes can be a big help. But it appears your go to source was not particularly reliable (that said, there is a lot of misunderstanding about implied status, so that mistake alone does not suggest the source should be entirely dismissed).

Some Observations with a bit of SPECULATING, some GUESSING: Emphasis on GUESSING.

If a PR visa has been issued, flagpoling should be OK. BUT it is my understanding that issuing a PR visa is not the procedure now used for inland applications. A decision approving a grant of PR status is still significantly short of being issued a grant of status, and even that is short of becoming a PR unless and until the landing procedure is completed (which I understand not only has changed for inland applicants generally but is also subject to temporary measures in response to the pandemic).

Without a PR visa, or some other specific authorization to enter Canada, flagpoling can indeed involve a risk of being denied entry. But here, again, the specific details in the individual's particular situation matter.

In particular, what can make a difference is the individual's actual status. While leaving Canada generally resolves an ongoing overstay, that can depend on whether any enforcement action has been initiated or related decision/determination made. So here too the precise details in regards to the "inadmissibility" are what matters.

If the individual has been determined to be inadmissible, the risk of being denied entry is very high, subject to nuances such as what happens when it involves a FN who cannot be sent back to the U.S.

For example, a FN (Foreign National, a non-Canadian) who has overstayed in Canada but who has not been adjudicated to be inadmissible, who leaves Canada and returns (flagpoling or coming back later), should have minimal risk of being denied entry if they are visa-exempt. If not visa-exempt, the risk of being denied entry is greater unless, of course, they have actually been issued a visa. With some nuances and variable outcomes depending on collateral circumstances (a visa exempt FN can be denied entry, for example, if border officials apprehend they will not comply with immigration laws, like working without a work permit).
Just wanted to tell you that I just got confirmation of PR. Thank you for your input.
 

mariposaDADA

Star Member
Apr 23, 2017
68
8
Just wanted to tell you that I just got confirmation of PR. Thank you for your input.
Hi,

I asking on behalf of my brother who is in Canada. His work permit renewal was refused mid August. The agent sent a correspondance for which my brother did not receive an email notification and so he didnt act on it on time. He randomly connected to his ircc account and saw the correspondance in which the agent was asking him to pay some fees and was given 7 days for that.Unfortunately, the window had already elapsed by the time he saw this correspondance and a few days later he got the refusal again without any email notification letter, the agent explained that they refused because the fees were not paid withing the 7 days and indicated that he had 90 days to apply for a restoration of his status which he did the the next 2 days. The big issue now is that he had to stop working overnight. He called ircc yesterday to enquire about his Pr application , he was told that his PR is now approved but there is a note from the agent saying that they will wait for him to restore his status before issuing/confirming the PR. Is this normal? My sister was in an almost similar situation, she had to stop working because she was not eligible to renew her work permit and was allowed to stay legally in Canada until she gets a decision on her PR application. When hers was approved, she was asked to send her passport to Ottawa and got it back a week later with a Visa. She then did the 'landing' in the us border. Why didn't ircc do the same for my brother, why should he wait 5 more months for his work permit restoration to be processed then give him the PR , it doesn't make sense to me. Also, what if this restoration gets refused too, does that mean that they will refuse PR again even if it's already approved. I would greatly appreciate any insight as we are desperate for any help/tips. Thank you