+1(514) 937-9445 or Toll-free (Canada & US) +1 (888) 947-9445

Ottawa Moves To Curb Marriages of Convenience

Stumpedmom

Hero Member
Sep 16, 2010
541
14
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
22/03/2011 Receivd CPC-M
AOR Received.
16/06/2011
File Transfer...
06/05/2011 Received in Buffalo, 06/2011 to Los Angeles
Med's Done....
12/10/2010
Interview........
waived...obviously cuz we got the PPR
Passport Req..
16/8/2011
VISA ISSUED...
24/8/2011 in our hands 8/29/2011
LANDED..........
3/9/2011
suva said:
man if they r not giving away pr visas then logically they have to work less regarding this. its more like a spouse/ dependent visa like UK, not a PR visa. in 2008 they changed the rule for skilled workers, nothing was mentioned about the processing time , but that has been reduced by almost 70% just after the change. i hope this time also they are gonna decrease the waiting time. lets hope for the best.
The whole reason for the change in 2008 to the Skilled Worker Class was to reduce the time lines....the unfortunate part is now the people that applied before that change was made are more than likely NEVER going to be approved based on the fact that they now process all the FSW apps as a last in first out...for example if you filed this year under one of the classes in July, your application will be processed before the apps filed the previous year, and then once they complete the 2011 apps they go to 2010, and then 2009 and so on so forth.....

Yes they have reduced the time lines by 70% for the people who applied AFTER the change was made and increased it for all those who applied under the old system....
 

suva

Hero Member
May 30, 2011
496
8
Category........
Visa Office......
SINGAPORE
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
20.07.2011
File Transfer...
03.10.2011
Med's Done....
20.06.2011
Passport Req..
13.12.2011(with PC request), submitted in 2nd week of january 2012
VISA ISSUED...
31.01.2012( in hand)
LANDED..........
1st March 2012
Stumpedmom said:
The whole reason for the change in 2008 to the Skilled Worker Class was to reduce the time lines....the unfortunate part is now the people that applied before that change was made are more than likely NEVER going to be approved based on the fact that they now process all the FSW apps as a last in first out...for example if you filed this year under one of the classes in July, your application will be processed before the apps filed the previous year, and then once they complete the 2011 apps they go to 2010, and then 2009 and so on so forth.....

Yes they have reduced the time lines by 70% for the people who applied AFTER the change was made and increased it for all those who applied under the old system....
hmm u r right, but i think 'less processing time' will be a by-product if it is conditional visa. may be i am wrong.
 

Stumpedmom

Hero Member
Sep 16, 2010
541
14
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
22/03/2011 Receivd CPC-M
AOR Received.
16/06/2011
File Transfer...
06/05/2011 Received in Buffalo, 06/2011 to Los Angeles
Med's Done....
12/10/2010
Interview........
waived...obviously cuz we got the PPR
Passport Req..
16/8/2011
VISA ISSUED...
24/8/2011 in our hands 8/29/2011
LANDED..........
3/9/2011
Well we can all hope thats for sure....but as I said...I wouldn't put money on a time reduction...but I do agree that it would be a great benefit....the conditional PR status only means that you have to remain in the bona fide marriage, it has nothing to do with all the background checks, which is what does take a lot of the processing times and that will still have to be done before they issue any type of PR conditional or not...hence me saying that it likely won't reduce the times....
 

suva

Hero Member
May 30, 2011
496
8
Category........
Visa Office......
SINGAPORE
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
20.07.2011
File Transfer...
03.10.2011
Med's Done....
20.06.2011
Passport Req..
13.12.2011(with PC request), submitted in 2nd week of january 2012
VISA ISSUED...
31.01.2012( in hand)
LANDED..........
1st March 2012
Stumpedmom said:
Well we can all hope thats for sure....but as I said...I wouldn't put money on a time reduction...but I do agree that it would be a great benefit....the conditional PR status only means that you have to remain in the bona fide marriage, it has nothing to do with all the background checks, which is what does take a lot of the processing times and that will still have to be done before they issue any type of PR conditional or not...hence me saying that it likely won't reduce the times....
:( :( :( :(
 

Indigo

Hero Member
Oct 22, 2011
269
4
Canada
Category........
Visa Office......
Berlin, Germany
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
21-09-2011
AOR Received.
05-01-2012
File Transfer...
25-11-2011
Med's Done....
26-08-2011
Interview........
N/A
Passport Req..
N/A
VISA ISSUED...
20-01-2012 (COPR)
LANDED..........
22-01-2012
CharlieD10 said:
Yes. As long as your application is not final before the regulation comes into force, meaning you have not yet received your PR visa or status, then you will be subject to the new regulation. In other words, it doesn't matter what the rule is when you apply, it matters what the rule is when you are approved.
Hey CharlieD10, I was wondering if you can verify this information with a link/quote or something?
 

Kedeisha

Champion Member
Apr 15, 2011
2,769
77
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Indigo said:
Hey CharlieD10, I was wondering if you can verify this information with a link/quote or something?
I don't believe what she says needs more explanation that how anything goes if you have not been approved for PR not the sponsorship because we all see on here that the PR applicaiton can be rejected even after sponsorship approval and landed then you now face the same rules as new applicants... picture your credit card when rules change they don't change only for new customers they change for all customers so if you use thar logic then it makes sense if u do not land as a PR before the rules take effect new rules apply to u


Funny thing why is everyone sooooo concerned about the new rule when we are all in "genuine" marriage these rules really won't affect your day to day life you will still be able to work, travel do all that other PR can do the condition is you remain in a relationship because u came here on a "relationship" visa
 

Indigo

Hero Member
Oct 22, 2011
269
4
Canada
Category........
Visa Office......
Berlin, Germany
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
21-09-2011
AOR Received.
05-01-2012
File Transfer...
25-11-2011
Med's Done....
26-08-2011
Interview........
N/A
Passport Req..
N/A
VISA ISSUED...
20-01-2012 (COPR)
LANDED..........
22-01-2012
Kedeisha said:
I don't believe what she says needs more explanation that how anything goes if you have not been approved for PR not the sponsorship because we all see on here that the PR applicaiton can be approved even after sponsorship approval and landed then you now face the same rules as new applicants... picture your credit card when rules change they don't change only for new customers they change for all customers so if you use thar logic then it makes sense if u do not land as a PR before the rules take effect new rules apply to u


Funny thing why is everyone sooooo concerned about the new rule when we are all in "genuine" marriage these rules really won't affect your day to day life you will still be able to work, travel do all that other PR can do the condition is you remain in a relationship because u came here on a "relationship" visa
First of all, the government is not a CC company. You can't assume the government does something just because the CC company does. In fact, I don't think we can assume anything.

Second of all, you might be misinterpreting my concerns. The conditional PR rules concern me because there is another rule that might be attached to it (no sponsoring of second spouse within 5 years of sponsorship of ex-spouse ending), which will result in our application being rejected if they somehow make that one apply retro-actively. Yes, I am concerned. And not because my relationship is not genuine, because my husband and I love each other very much and have for the past 3½ years.

I'm trying to not panic about our specific case, and sticking to actual facts is a way for me to stay calm.
I didn't ask CharlieD10 to explain anything, I just asked him/her to provide a link to -for example- a government website, or else to a news article from a reliable online newspaper, that shows confirmation of this rule applying retro-actively.
Until and unless I see some more solid proof than something someone says on a forum, I'm going to have to assume it's a rumour.
 

CharlieD10

VIP Member
Sep 5, 2010
5,849
185
124
Northern Ontario
Category........
Visa Office......
KGN
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
15-02-2011
File Transfer...
09-05-2011
Med's Done....
17-01-2011, 08-03-2012
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
30-3-2012
VISA ISSUED...
13-04-2012
LANDED..........
06-06-2012
Indigo - No, I don't have a link that applies to what I said earlier. I am basing what I said off everything I know about how government applies legislation. It has never been the practice to apply new regulations to persons/situations already considered final under a previous version of a regulation, or under a statute that is being replaced or repealed. However, where a situation is on-going but not concluded before the enactment of a regulation, the situation is then assessed under the new regulations, and not the old because it no longer has any force.

For example, IRPR Section 4 (the "bad faith" marriage regulation) was amended with effect on Sep 30, 2010. What had previously been a disjunctive test (the appellant had to prove EITHER their marriage was genuine OR it was not entered into for immigration purposes in order to win on appeal) became a conjunctive test (the appellant now has to prove their marriage is genuine AND is not entered into for immigration purposes in order to win on appeal). All appeals with decisions made on the version of Section 4 that applied before Sep 30 were final and those decisions could not be interfered with, so the change to the regulation did not result in the Minister suddenly filing a rash of judicial review requests to have those previous decisions overturned. However, all appeals still outstanding as at Sep 30, 2010 (i.e. a decision had not yet been made, but the appeal was filed when the previous version of the regulation was in force) had then to be considered under the new version of Section 4 before a decision could be made. It didn't matter that the appeals had been filed when the previous version of Section 4 was active, what mattered was that version no longer had any force, and the new version and new conjunctive test had to be met in order for appeals to succeed.

In other words, it is not logical to assume that they would apply the conditional visa rules to applications already finalised- the spouse is landed and there is no changing their situation. The legal implications alone would be enormous if Canada attempted to change the situation of persons already landed and whose undertaking periods were already underway or even complete. It is NOT however, "retroactive" if they apply the new regulations to applications that are finalised AFTER the new regulations are gazetted.

Your spouse is perfectly free to sponsor you, (I repeat), because the sponsorship bar would not apply to Canadians who previously sponsored a spouse, it would apply to sponsored spouses who then left their sponsors, married someone new and tried to sponsor that someone else to Canada as a spouse. The bar would act to prevent them from doing so for 5 years (or however long they decide on).

I hope that was clear, it's late, and I'm trying to explain the rigmarole that is government regulation as simply as I understand it.
 

canadianwoman

VIP Member
Nov 6, 2009
6,200
284
Category........
Visa Office......
Accra, Ghana
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
30-01-2008
Interview........
05-05-2009
Indigo said:
The conditional PR rules concern me because there is another rule that might be attached to it (no sponsoring of second spouse within 5 years of sponsorship of ex-spouse ending), which will result in our application being rejected if they somehow make that one apply retro-actively.
This part of the proposed new regulation does not mean the sponsor cannot sponsor a new spouse for 5 years after the sponsorship of the previous spouse has ended. It means an applicant who is sponsored cannot land in Canada, leave his or her sponsor, and then sponsor their 'real' husband or wife right away. This actually happens fairly often - you can see many cases like this in canlii. A typical case is like this: a Canadian husband sponsors his wife from India. She lands in Canada, and leaves her spouse the next day. A year later she is divorced, goes back to India, gets married to the boyfriend she's had the whole time, and then sponsors him. Obviously the first marriage was a MOC designed to get her into Canada. Under the proposed regulations, she would not be able to do that - she would have to wait for 5 years.
As it is now, a sponsor cannot sponsor a new spouse until 3 years have passed since the first spouse landed, but the sponsored person can land in Canada, leave his or her spouse, and apply to sponsor a new partner right away. Obviously this is unfair, in particular for those Canadians who were tricked into marriage and did not know it was a MOC.
 

Indigo

Hero Member
Oct 22, 2011
269
4
Canada
Category........
Visa Office......
Berlin, Germany
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
21-09-2011
AOR Received.
05-01-2012
File Transfer...
25-11-2011
Med's Done....
26-08-2011
Interview........
N/A
Passport Req..
N/A
VISA ISSUED...
20-01-2012 (COPR)
LANDED..........
22-01-2012
That is certainly unfair, I never thought about that! They gotta change that!

I would even find it fair if they changed the rules for both "sides" (sponsor and applicant) to 5 years after the previous spousal sponsorship ended. For my hubby, it had only been 4 years. Had there been a 5 year rule, we would have had to resign to being seperated for a year longer. But since there wasn't, I would like them to keep it that way for now, because, well, I'd like to become a PR and truly start my life here... So thank you for clarifying that. After reading the articles about this subject, I have to admit that it looks like you are right.
 

suva

Hero Member
May 30, 2011
496
8
Category........
Visa Office......
SINGAPORE
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
20.07.2011
File Transfer...
03.10.2011
Med's Done....
20.06.2011
Passport Req..
13.12.2011(with PC request), submitted in 2nd week of january 2012
VISA ISSUED...
31.01.2012( in hand)
LANDED..........
1st March 2012
2 years conditional visa followed by interviews for both sponsor and sponsored person will solve the problem. staying together for 2 years is more satisfying than expensive trips, registered phone calls, money transaction receipts etc. under current rule many genuine couple(specially from 3rd world countries) face troubles because they dont have enough proofs. some dont have enough money arrange ceremonies, some get married against the will of the family members., some just dont keep records of their relationship.. all these raise red flags and eventually they get refused or have to wait 2+ years to get through. so if they stay together successfully for few years then its easy to call them genuine couples with less hassles.
 

mcmasters

Star Member
Oct 17, 2011
72
0
124
Buffalo, NY
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo, NY
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
01-03-2011
File Transfer...
31-03-2011
Med's Request
11-07-2011
Med's Done....
August 2011
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
08-12-11
VISA ISSUED...
Dec 11 2011
LANDED..........
Dec 27 2011
This article makes me really p*ssed off.

What the heck is the point of an outland application if the spouses are required to live together before they can even apply? ?!?!?!?

My husband and I have struggled through a long distance relationship for fiiiiive yeeeeeears because we were trying to do things the "right" way and the "legal" way by not having me move to Canada before I received my legal and legitimate PR status.

So does this mean if we had applied after this change is made, that our application wouldn't be accepted, because I was trying to play by the "then" rules?

This is absolutely ridiculous. I can see why they want to crack down on fake marriages and illegitimate sponsorships, but this is not the way to do it.

At least, allow the spouse to get a temporary work visa before (s)he gets PR, if (s)he is forced to live in Canada before becoming a legal resident! :mad: I should not be forced to be a housewife and put my career on hold for two years because I happened to fall in love with a Canadian rather than American citizen. Bollocks.

OK rant over. Hope this change doesn't negatively affect any legitimate couples and their applications.
 

CharlieD10

VIP Member
Sep 5, 2010
5,849
185
124
Northern Ontario
Category........
Visa Office......
KGN
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
15-02-2011
File Transfer...
09-05-2011
Med's Done....
17-01-2011, 08-03-2012
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
30-3-2012
VISA ISSUED...
13-04-2012
LANDED..........
06-06-2012
mcmasters said:
What the heck is the point of an outland application if the spouses are required to live together before they can even apply? ?!?!?!?
The requirement is NOT to live together before you can apply for PR. Nowhere does it say that. The regulations being considered will require couples in a relationship for less than two years prior to applying for PR to be given conditional PR which means that after landing the sponsored spouse and sponsor must jointly apply for unconditional PR by proving that they are still in a relationship two years later.

Please read the article carefully before you upset yourself for no reason.
 

Mrslwsn

Hero Member
Oct 7, 2010
977
16
Toronto/Mobay
Category........
Visa Office......
Kingston, Jamaica
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
24-11-2011
AOR Received.
neva yet
File Transfer...
25-01-2012
Med's Done....
26-10-2011
Interview........
waived
Passport Req..
14-03-12
VISA ISSUED...
31-03-12
LANDED..........
29-04-2012
Hey, I must have not read the article well either cuz I thought it meant the SPONSOR could not re-sponsor! Thanks for clearing that up Charlie! I was about to let my friend know that her situation might be in jeopardy. Will this apply to inland applications?