Number of days for PR obligation

[AmmyS]

Hi All,
I am about to renew my PR card. I landed in Canada on 10th Sept. 2018 and then exited in Oct. 2019 (374 days). I again entered in Sept. 2021 and exited in Aug. 2022. In 2023 (332 days). I again came back and spent 8 days in April 2023 and I am back again since July 1, 2023. I am thinking to apply for renewal of my card on 31st July 2023 ( which gives me additional 31 days). So if I count I have 374+332+8+31 = 745 days. I would have lived 745 days (the requirement is 730 days).
The question is - Is it too close to applying for renewal of card or is it good to go? Honestly, I cannot stretch my stay any longer than this (maybe a few days) as I have to join my job in another country I am leaving Canada again in August 2023 and my card is expiring in January 2024. I won't return to Canada sooner.
I have carefully calculated the days and double-checked the in/out dates. As per my understanding, the day of exit and entry to Canada is also counted towards PR days. Is it correct? As I have added these days to my total number of days.
I do have supporting docs such as CRA returns, Bank statements, DL, and Pay stubs for the above-mentioned period to support my application.

Your answer to the above would be helpful. Thanks

 

[steaky]

Hi All,
I am about to renew my PR card. I landed in Canada on 10th Sept. 2018 and then exited in Oct. 2019 (374 days). I again entered in Sept. 2021 and exited in Aug. 2022. In 2023 (332 days). I again came back and spent 8 days in April 2023 and I am back again since July 1, 2023. I am thinking to apply for renewal of my card on 31st July 2023 ( which gives me additional 31 days). So if I count I have 374+332+8+31 = 745 days. I would have lived 745 days (the requirement is 730 days).
The question is - Is it too close to applying for renewal of card or is it good to go? Honestly, I cannot stretch my stay any longer than this (maybe a few days) as I have to join my job in another country I am leaving Canada again in August 2023 and my card is expiring in January 2024. I won't return to Canada sooner.
I have carefully calculated the days and double-checked the in/out dates. As per my understanding, the day of exit and entry to Canada is also counted towards PR days. Is it correct? As I have added these days to my total number of days.
I do have supporting docs such as CRA returns, Bank statements, DL, and Pay stubs for the above-mentioned period to support my application.

Your answer to the above would be helpful. Thanks

The mailing addres for the PR card must be a Canadian address. So I guess someone will help you check the mailbox and courier to you?

 

[Ponga]

I do have supporting docs such as CRA returns, Bank statements, DL, and Pay stubs for the above-mentioned period to support my application.

Your answer to the above would be helpful. Thanks

You ONLY NEED 2 supporting documents, not multiples of either. One bank statement and one pay stub (from different times, obviously) will suffice.

 

[canuck78]

Hi All,
I am about to renew my PR card. I landed in Canada on 10th Sept. 2018 and then exited in Oct. 2019 (374 days). I again entered in Sept. 2021 and exited in Aug. 2022. In 2023 (332 days). I again came back and spent 8 days in April 2023 and I am back again since July 1, 2023. I am thinking to apply for renewal of my card on 31st July 2023 ( which gives me additional 31 days). So if I count I have 374+332+8+31 = 745 days. I would have lived 745 days (the requirement is 730 days).
The question is - Is it too close to applying for renewal of card or is it good to go? Honestly, I cannot stretch my stay any longer than this (maybe a few days) as I have to join my job in another country I am leaving Canada again in August 2023 and my card is expiring in January 2024. I won't return to Canada sooner.
I have carefully calculated the days and double-checked the in/out dates. As per my understanding, the day of exit and entry to Canada is also counted towards PR days. Is it correct? As I have added these days to my total number of days.
I do have supporting docs such as CRA returns, Bank statements, DL, and Pay stubs for the above-mentioned period to support my application.

Your answer to the above would be helpful. Thanks

The one big issue is that you will likely be asked to pick-up a new card in person in Canada and at that time whether you continue to meet your RO will be assessed. Usually a mini interview is conducted when people living abroad come in to pick up their new card and one of the reasons to ensure they continue to meet their RO. Based on what you wrote you would lose a lot of the days from 2018 if when you picked up your new card IRCC examined whether you were in Canada for 730 days in the past 5 years on that exact day.

How will you enter Canada in 2024? Do you have a U.S. visa and are you planning on entering by land via private car?

 

[AmmyS]

The mailing addres for the PR card must be a Canadian address. So I guess someone will help you check the mailbox and courier to you?

Yes, a friend can do that. But since my current card is valid till January 2024, I can come back and collect, if need be, and if processed in time. Thanks

 

[AmmyS]

You ONLY NEED 2 supporting documents, not multiples of either. One bank statement and one pay stub (from different times, obviously) will suffice.

Thank you for your reply. What length of period should bank statement suffice? Or what is the best way to do so?

 

[scylla]

Hi All,
I am about to renew my PR card. I landed in Canada on 10th Sept. 2018 and then exited in Oct. 2019 (374 days). I again entered in Sept. 2021 and exited in Aug. 2022. In 2023 (332 days). I again came back and spent 8 days in April 2023 and I am back again since July 1, 2023. I am thinking to apply for renewal of my card on 31st July 2023 ( which gives me additional 31 days). So if I count I have 374+332+8+31 = 745 days. I would have lived 745 days (the requirement is 730 days).
The question is - Is it too close to applying for renewal of card or is it good to go? Honestly, I cannot stretch my stay any longer than this (maybe a few days) as I have to join my job in another country I am leaving Canada again in August 2023 and my card is expiring in January 2024. I won't return to Canada sooner.
I have carefully calculated the days and double-checked the in/out dates. As per my understanding, the day of exit and entry to Canada is also counted towards PR days. Is it correct? As I have added these days to my total number of days.
I do have supporting docs such as CRA returns, Bank statements, DL, and Pay stubs for the above-mentioned period to support my application.

Your answer to the above would be helpful. Thanks

Keep in mind that the residency obligation is a rolling obligation. If you have to pick up the PR card in person and your PR card has expired by that time, you may have difficulty getting a PRTD since you may no longer meet the residency obligation.

 

[AmmyS]

The one big issue is that you will likely be asked to pick-up a new card in person in Canada and at that time whether you continue to meet your RO will be assessed. Usually a mini interview is conducted when people living abroad come in to pick up their new card and one of the reasons to ensure they continue to meet their RO. Based on what you wrote you would lose a lot of the days from 2018 if when you picked up your new card IRCC examined whether you were in Canada for 730 days in the past 5 years on that exact day.

How will you enter Canada in 2024? Do you have a U.S. visa and are you planning on entering by land via private car?

@canuck78 Thanks for your reply but this - "Based on what you wrote you would lose a lot of the days from 2018 if when you picked up your new card IRCC examined whether you were in Canada for 730 days in the past 5 years on that exact day." leads me to confusion. Isn't it the decision on PR renewal application based on the day of application submission and calculating backward? If I apply online on 31st July 2023, isn't it my residency obligations would be checked from 31st July 2023 to 5 years backward? Please correct me if I am missing anything.

Also, I do have a valid US Visa, but my current PR card is valid till January 2024. If need be I will enter again and do any pending formalities. Given the processing times, I think I should receive it before the current one expires.

Lastly, is there anywhere in the application, where I have to disclose that I have or will be staying out of the country? When I have been resident for the required 730 days.

Thanks so much.

 

[AmmyS]

Keep in mind that the residency obligation is a rolling obligation. If you have to pick up the PR card in person and your PR card has expired by that time, you may have difficulty getting a PRTD since you may no longer meet the residency obligation.

@scylla Thanks for your reply. Is it their choice to give a PR card in person or by mail?
And can you please elaborate this - "If you have to pick up the PR card in person and your PR card has expired by that time, you may have difficulty getting a PRTD since you may no longer meet the residency obligation"
What is best for me now?

 

[scylla]

@scylla Thanks for your reply. Is it their choice to give a PR card in person or by mail?
And can you please elaborate this - "If you have to pick up the PR card in person and your PR card has expired by that time, you may have difficulty getting a PRTD since you may no longer meet the residency obligation"
What is best for me now?

Yes, it is their choice to mail the card or request you to pick up in person.

The PR residency obligation is a rolling obligation. This means that at any given time, you must be able to look back at the previous five years and have spent at least 2 of those years in Canada. This doesn't just apply when you renew your PR card, this applies on an ongoing basis. If PR is a priority for you, then make sure you meet the rolling residency obligation to ensure you have no risks of losing your PR status. If you leave immediately and don't return until January 2024, you will no longer meet the residency obligation.

 

[canuck78]

@canuck78 Thanks for your reply but this - "Based on what you wrote you would lose a lot of the days from 2018 if when you picked up your new card IRCC examined whether you were in Canada for 730 days in the past 5 years on that exact day." leads me to confusion. Isn't it the decision on PR renewal application based on the day of application submission and calculating backward? If I apply online on 31st July 2023, isn't it my residency obligations would be checked from 31st July 2023 to 5 years backward? Please correct me if I am missing anything.

Also, I do have a valid US Visa, but my current PR card is valid till January 2024. If need be I will enter again and do any pending formalities. Given the processing times, I think I should receive it before the current one expires.

Lastly, is there anywhere in the application, where I have to disclose that I have or will be staying out of the country? When I have been resident for the required 730 days.

Thanks so much.

As I explained when you go and pick up your card in person they conduct a minim interview which usually also looks at whether you are currently compliant with your RO. After the first 5 years it is a rolling total so on any day you would need to meet the 730 days out of 5 years to be compliant with your RO. You must declare your residential and mailing address in your applications you would have to declare that your residential address is abroad or you would by misrepresenting your address to IRCC? Given your address history listed to count days towards RO it will also be pretty clear that you are living abroad at the moment. Would plan on having to return and pick-up your PR card in person. No matter what of you left Canada with no intention of returning very soon you would be out of status quite quickly so technically you could also be reported at any border too.

 

[YVR123]

@scylla Thanks for your reply. Is it their choice to give a PR card in person or by mail?
And can you please elaborate this - "If you have to pick up the PR card in person and your PR card has expired by that time, you may have difficulty getting a PRTD since you may no longer meet the residency obligation"
What is best for me now?

This is if your PR card renewal takes longer than the normal one. E.g. if you were asked to come back to pick it up after Jan 2024.
since you have US visa, you could then choose to cross the land border and do not need to apply for PRTD.

But any interaction with IRCC or CBSA could trigger an assessment of your RO. So there is still a risk.

Your RO is not only evaluate at PR card renewal. You need to meet RO continously and it's look back at 5 years from any day.

 

[dpenabill]

Hi All,
I am about to renew my PR card. I landed in Canada on 10th Sept. 2018 and then exited in Oct. 2019 (374 days). I again entered in Sept. 2021 and exited in Aug. 2022. In 2023 (332 days). I again came back and spent 8 days in April 2023 and I am back again since July 1, 2023. I am thinking to apply for renewal of my card on 31st July 2023 ( which gives me additional 31 days). So if I count I have 374+332+8+31 = 745 days. I would have lived 745 days (the requirement is 730 days).
The question is - Is it too close to applying for renewal of card or is it good to go? Honestly, I cannot stretch my stay any longer than this (maybe a few days) as I have to join my job in another country I am leaving Canada again in August 2023 and my card is expiring in January 2024. I won't return to Canada sooner.
I have carefully calculated the days and double-checked the in/out dates. As per my understanding, the day of exit and entry to Canada is also counted towards PR days. Is it correct? As I have added these days to my total number of days.
I do have supporting docs such as CRA returns, Bank statements, DL, and Pay stubs for the above-mentioned period to support my application.

Your answer to the above would be helpful. Thanks

Others, including @scylla, @canuck78, and @YVR123, have alerted you to the fact that "The PR residency obligation is a rolling obligation. This means that at any given time, you must be able to look back at the previous five years and have spent at least 2 of those years in Canada."

It is important understand what this means. This means that the days you were IN Canada beginning in September 2018 will NO LONGER COUNT toward meeting the RO as of the same date in September 2023. Even if you are issued a new PR card, you still need to stay in compliance with the RO. That means if you are outside Canada as of September 10, 2023, the number of days you have toward meeting the RO begin to decrease, going down one day each day. So, for example, if you stay here long enough to have spent 760 days here since September 10, 2018, but leave and are outside Canada after September 9, 2023, by October 10, 2023 you will be IN BREACH of the RO. And by the end of January 2024 you will be more than a 100 days short, and continuing to lose more days the longer you stay abroad.

If in the meantime you are issued a new PR card, it is mailed, and you get it, you will be able to use that card to fly back to Canada. But you will be in breach of the RO and potentially subject to RO inadmissibility proceedings when you arrive. Whether or not that will actually happen, when you arrive, is hard to forecast. Presenting a valid PR card gives you a chance of being waived through without RO questioning. But NO guarantee. Obviously, the longer you are abroad since last time IN Canada, the bigger the risk CBSA border officials will take a closer look at your RO compliance when you next arrive.

So, in terms of meeting the eligibility requirements for a new PR card, you appear to meet those. That part is not a problem.

And it is possible, although given cutting-it-close it is hard to say what the odds are, but it is at least possible the application is processed routinely, IRCC issues and mails the card to a trusted friend or family member, who can forward it to you.

As others have noted, however, cutting-it-close in conjunction with leaving the country while the application is pending increases the risk of elevated scrutiny, and a significant risk that in addition to checking your CBSA travel history of entries into Canada, IRCC has CBSA check your exits. Noting too if you exited Canada after making the PR card application. Which means a significant or potentially high risk that the PR card will not be mailed, but instead you will need to do an in-person pick-up. If that is done in time for you to return with your currently valid PR card that might work, but because of the reasons for requiring an in-person pick-up IRCC may have added a a flag in GCMS, by then, to screen you upon your arrival. If that happens while you have not yet breached the RO, it will be OK. But again, if you are outside Canada after September 9, you will begin to lose credit toward the RO, and each abroad after that will increase the risk that IRCC or CBSA will take notice and act on it.