New Express Entry ranking system will be applied on Nov 19th (detail inside!)

[thourb]

The typical international student with perfect CLB score, bachelors degree and 1 year of experience will have 444 points before the new 30 bonus, so now they will have 474.

I would think, just based on the number in the past, the cut-offs will probably stay around the same. Just now instead of letting in lots of low Core human factors chefs/cooks/restaurant managers with bonus 600 pts from LMIA, you'll just have a back log of former international students.

I think the next few months of draws will stay in the 470's, until they are all cleared.

The question is, does the "typical international student" have top CLB scores and one year experience? For CEC you can't use experience gained whilst on a study permit and many students that would like to immigrate I bet don't have that year.

As well as that, even for a native speaker getting top IELTS scores isn't easy. My partner just got his results and got 7.5 writing - yes it's still CLB10 but he is a native speaker who just wrote a 72000 word PhD thesis. He has excellent written English skills.

My point is that for many whose native language isn't English in particular, you shouldn't assume that they will get top results, even if they have just finished university. Likewise, many won't have the work experience.

300,000 annual international students can very quickly become a much smaller number when you take into consideration the number who won't apply for PR, the number who are actually doing a 3 year course eligible for the full 30 bonus points, the people without perfect English and the people with no work experience.

 

[thourb]

They haven't confirm removal of 600 points on Government website.
They said arrange employment will get 200 or 50 in respective of their NOC codes.

Facepalm.

Did you even read the link? I'll spell it out for you:

14 Sections 29 to 34 of the Instructions are replaced by the following:

Points for qualifying offer of arranged employment
29 (1) If a foreign national has a qualifying offer of arranged employment, they may be assigned points as follows:

(a) 200 points, if the offer is for employment in an occupation contained in Major Group 00 of the National Occupation Classification; or
(b) 50 points, if the offer is any other qualifying offer of arranged employment.

The key word is REPLACED. They are replacing the provision in the current ministerial instructions with the above text. Nowhere in the new ministerial instructions does it say about 600 points for anything except provincial nomination.

That's the bottom line. PNP is the only way to get 600 extra points now. Max score for most of us will be 650.

 

[ravdawg]

The question is, does the "typical international student" have top CLB scores and one year experience? For CEC you can't use experience gained whilst on a study permit and many students that would like to immigrate I bet don't have that year.

As well as that, even for a native speaker getting top IELTS scores isn't easy. My partner just got his results and got 7.5 writing - yes it's still CLB10 but he is a native speaker who just wrote a 72000 word PhD thesis. He has excellent written English skills.

My point is that for many whose native language isn't English in particular, you shouldn't assume that they will get top results, even if they have just finished university. Likewise, many won't have the work experience.

300,000 annual international students can very quickly become a much smaller number when you take into consideration the number who won't apply for PR, the number who are actually doing a 3 year course eligible for the full 30 bonus points, the people without perfect English and the people with no work experience.

I agree completely, I meant as an optimistic top end for best case scenario. I agree with the IELTS score. Again, I meant as a "top end" most internationals who did a bachelor's would have a MAX of 444 before the bonus pts.

I'm confused though, dont you have to have the 1 year of experience to even apply for express entry? What do you mean by not having one year of experience?

 

[thourb]

I agree completely, I meant as an optimistic top end for best case scenario.

I'm confused though, dont you have to have the 1 year of experience to even apply for express entry? What do you mean by not having one year of experience?

Yes that is true. My point is that people won't be able to just graduate university and apply straight away. They'll need to either go back to home country and work for a year or apply for work permit to get years experience. Many people who struggled before to get an ITA due to high CRS scores have likely gone back to their home country now and may not be interested in applying for Canadian PR anymore, so the backlog may not be as high as you think.

 

[popoxee]

What about French language points,siblings, fast track visa for global talents , Atlantic canada pilot program.?

If u speak French and get CLB 7, just make sure u pick Ontario as your province. You will be nominated with PNP French Stream.

 

[ravdawg]

Yes that is true. My point is that people won't be able to just graduate university and apply straight away. They'll need to either go back to home country and work for a year or apply for work permit to get years experience. Many people who struggled before to get an ITA due to high CRS scores have likely gone back to their home country now and may not be interested in applying for Canadian PR anymore, so the backlog may not be as high as you think.

Yes i see what you mean - and I agree in principle. There is the lag time, but there is definitely at least a few thousand in backlog right now who have the checkboxes and points patiently waiting.

Do remember that as it stands, if you do a bachelors you are gauranteed a 3 year Post-grad Work permit...so there shouldn't be an issue with getting the experience.

I don't by any means think the backlog is super duper large, but there's likely at least 2000-4000 applicants who have just been sitting in the pool with <450 scores, for the last while, and then new ones adding into the pool as they gain the 1 year of experience etc.

 

[Elrud]

Here it is on CERC website:

https://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.cerc.ca/resource/resmgr/government_relations/Express_entry_national_stake.pdf

If you see the last page in the slide/doc, you would see arrows with respect to the short, medium and long term effect of human capital relating to the proposed reforms.

For education, it was expected for the points to be lower than LMIA for a job offer. For education, the effect was nil, but only the level of education has a rising effect in the long term. To the contrary, for job offer (assume LMIA), the effect rises in short, medium and long term. That's why points was a maximum of 50 for LMIA and only 30 for Canadian education (based on level).

If you would see for French (reform for official languages), there is a rising effect in present, medium and long term, just like a job offer.

From this, I speculate for maximum points for French be 50, the same like LMIA. Any views?

For siblings, the effect was not mentioned.

 

[thourb]

Yes i see what you mean - and I agree in principle. There is the lag time, but there is definitely at least a few thousand in backlog right now who have the checkboxes and points patiently waiting.

Do remember that as it stands, if you do a bachelors you are gauranteed a 3 year Post-grad Work permit...so there shouldn't be an issue with getting the experience.

I don't by any means think the backlog is super duper large, but there's likely at least 2000-4000 of applicants who have just been sitting in the pool with <450 scores, and then new ones adding into the pool as they gain the 1 year of experience etc.

I agree. You're almost certainly right that there are thousands of international students waiting. My guess is that their average CRS score would more likely be around 420-430 (bachelors degree, 1 year experience, in 20s and CLB 9 gets you 432 currently, 462 on new system) - more people will have slightly poorer English though which will drag the average crs a bit lower than 432.

I'm basing this on just what I've seen going to university in England. I've been shocked by the standard of English that some international undergraduates have here. I'm genuinely surprised that some of them got more than 6 in IELTS. I'd have thought that Canada would be similar.

 

[popoxee]

Re: New Express Entry ranking system will be applied in Nov 19th (detail inside!)

To be Honest I think Mr McCallum has fulfilled his promise of providing easy path way for international students for PR buy adding bonus points. And I think now the point system is very fair for all the streams.

Agree with you except it is not a new "east path" but a possible path. In the old system it was almost impossible for international student to get ITA (without PNP or LMIA) and we were totally excluded in the system.

 

[Elrud]

If you see the last page in the slide/doc, you would see arrows with respect to the short, medium and long term effect of human capital relating to the proposed reforms.

For education, it was expected for the points to be lower than LMIA for a job offer. For education, the effect was nil, but only the level of education has a rising effect in the long term. To the contrary, for job offer (assume LMIA), the effect rises in short, medium and long term. That's why points was a maximum of 50 for LMIA and only 30 for Canadian education (based on level).

If you would see for French (reform for official languages), there is a rising effect in present, medium and long term, just like a job offer.

From this, I speculate for maximum points for French be 50, the same like LMIA. Any views?

For siblings, the effect was not mentioned.

May be because siblings will be under another stream.

 

[popoxee]

Re: New Express Entry ranking system will be applied in Nov 19th (detail inside!)

I have a simple logic every year Canada accepts around 350K+ students lets suppose only 50% of them are enrolled in bachelors/masters/phds that comes to 175K. Lets assume only 80% of them complete there educations that is 140K and if 60% of them gets 1 year of Canadian experience with clb 9 then there will be 98k students with 468 points entering the poll every year. If this is the case then I really dont think the score will go down below 450 mark.

Total overestimate.
Majority of international students come here for colleges like humber, conestoga.
Much less than 80% of them graduated successfully. Like our engineering program pass rate is 50%.
And how many can actually find a job and get CLB9? That's lower than 10%

 

[cecfile]

i guess , all those changes will come in crs tool on 19 or after.

 

[ashu1710]

Guys, the CRS calculator (http://www.cicnews.com/2016/11/canada-outlines-significant-changes-comprehensive-ranking-system-crs-express-entry-immigration-118652.html) isn't adding points for LMIA. That's a bug, right? Are there any conditions where you won't get points for LMIA?

 

[popoxee]

Do not understand why people whine about canadian siblings should give them more points. Is this a skill that can benefit canadian society or econmy?

 

[thourb]

Guys, the CRS calculator (http://www.cicnews.com/2016/11/canada-outlines-significant-changes-comprehensive-ranking-system-crs-express-entry-immigration-118652.html) isn't adding points for LMIA. That's a bug, right? Are there any conditions where you won't get points for LMIA?

Don't trust that calculator, its an unofficial beta version. Wait for the official CRS tool to be updated.