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Need Some help regarding Moving back to Canada

Tee76

Full Member
May 30, 2009
23
0
I was born here in Michigan but moved to Ontario at age 7...i stayed in Canada living, going to school, working etc. for 22yrs. I moved back to Michigan though in 2005...I want to move back to Canada now but im unsure of how to go about it. I know i havent met the RO due to being back in Michigan for almost 10yrs. I go back & forth to Ontario quite a bit to visit and have never had any problems with customs and I have not been questioned about my prior PR status or anything.

My question is, how do i go about legally moving back? Do i still have my Landed Immigrant/PR status? I never renounced it or had it revoked to my knowledge. Can i just up and move "home" and start working? I still have my SIN # too..is that all i need to legally work in Canada though im sure the # is dormant at the moment due to in activity. Or do i need to reapply for PR status all over again and/or a work permit?
 

Tee76

Full Member
May 30, 2009
23
0
Not sure if it matters, but my mother and brother still reside in Canada and so does my son.
 

ttrajan

Champion Member
Oct 14, 2013
2,236
49
Category........
AINP
Job Offer........
Yes
LANDED..........
15-08-2012
You need to stay in Canada 2 out of 5 years to retain your PR status. May be now you stay continuously 2 years in Canada and apply for PR card renewal?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
Tee76 said:
I was born here in Michigan but moved to Ontario at age 7...i stayed in Canada living, going to school, working etc. for 22yrs. I moved back to Michigan though in 2005...I want to move back to Canada now but im unsure of how to go about it. I know i havent met the RO due to being back in Michigan for almost 10yrs. I go back & forth to Ontario quite a bit to visit and have never had any problems with customs and I have not been questioned about my prior PR status or anything.

My question is, how do i go about legally moving back? Do i still have my Landed Immigrant/PR status? I never renounced it or had it revoked to my knowledge. Can i just up and move "home" and start working? I still have my SIN # too..is that all i need to legally work in Canada though im sure the # is dormant at the moment due to in activity. Or do i need to reapply for PR status all over again and/or a work permit?
Location of family largely irrelevant. Could factor into H&C grounds but given the length of absence as an adult, probably not much hope the PR Residency Obligation would, in effect, be waived for H&C grounds.

You are probably still a PR. If you have a SIN and are a PR you can legally work in Canada.

You are subject to being reported for being in breach of the PR Residency Obligation any time you attempt to enter Canada. Try to bring a moving van of stuff into Canada and they are going to check you more thoroughly and it is highly likely you would be reported, and lose PR status.

On the other hand, if you come to Canada, stay, find a job, and so on . . . two years later you can apply for a new PR card and will probably be given one . . . may have to go through a residency examination, but as long as you have been in Canada for two years in the last five, you meet the PR Residency Obligation no matter how long you were absent prior to that.

If you do not have the SIN card still, that may affect your ability to get a job. No PR card, may make it very difficult to get Health Care coverage until you do. Likewise a drivers license. Thus, even though it is easy to say all you have to do is come and stay for two years, that might not be so easy to do in practice.

If you apply for confirmation of PR status or for a new PR card early, odds are you will be subject to a residency examination and if that happens before you have been here two years, it is likely you will lose PR status.

So, you are a PR still (it appears) and you can keep your status by remaining in Canada for two years keeping your head down, not crossing the border, not applying to CIC for anything, but actually accomplishing that could be difficult.
 

Tee76

Full Member
May 30, 2009
23
0
I've never had a PR card at all. The only thing i do have is my old "Landing Papers" from the 1980's. Can i add up all my visits in the last 5 years to go towards the RO? I'm only asking because for the last year & a half up until recent, I've been in a relationship with a Canadian woman..I've spent weeks, sometimes a month in Ontario at a time with her, coming back home for 2 weeks then going back up there.

I see what y'all saying about "flying under the radar" for the next 2 years if i choose to stay in Canada..but that would be almost impossible due to the fact i have to work and provide for myself.

I remember on my last trip to Ontario back in March, a Immigration officer i was speaking to at the POE in Windsor Ontario mentioned to me to "just keep track.of all my visits and the time I've spent in Canada, because that will help if i ever decide to move back" i didn't get in depth with her just to avoid any "red flags" but not once have i been hassled coming into Canada nor has Immigration said anything about my PR status..i even openly told them i use to live there, graduated high school etc in Canada. They've always been pleasant with me and sent me on my way to my destination in Canada no issues whatsoever.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
Tee76 said:
I've never had a PR card at all. The only thing i do have is my old "Landing Papers" from the 1980's. Can i add up all my visits in the last 5 years to go towards the RO? I'm only asking because for the last year & a half up until recent, I've been in a relationship with a Canadian woman..I've spent weeks, sometimes a month in Ontario at a time with her, coming back home for 2 weeks then going back up there.

I see what y'all saying about "flying under the radar" for the next 2 years if i choose to stay in Canada..but that would be almost impossible due to the fact i have to work and provide for myself.

I remember on my last trip to Ontario back in March, a Immigration officer i was speaking to at the POE in Windsor Ontario mentioned to me to "just keep track.of all my visits and the time I've spent in Canada, because that will help if i ever decide to move back" i didn't get in depth with her just to avoid any "red flags" but not once have i been hassled coming into Canada nor has Immigration said anything about my PR status..i even openly told them i use to live there, graduated high school etc in Canada. They've always been pleasant with me and sent me on my way to my destination in Canada no issues whatsoever.
How these things go is very individual specific.

It is a very good sign that the POE officer appears to have recognized that you are a PR and did not report you for being in breach of the PR Residency Obligation. On the other hand, you cannot rely on other POE officers to be so friendly.

That said, the extent of your trips back and forth also make a big difference, particularly in so far as how things go at the border. Just that there is no guarantee you will not, one of these times, run into a cranky sort rather than the usual friendly Canadian sort (I always found it far more pleasant dealing with the Canadian side officers than the U.S., even though I was a U.S. citizen fully entitled to enter the U.S. at will, but I was pushing the envelope for how much time I was spending in Canada at that time, before I became a PR, long before I became a Canadian citizen, and yeah there was a woman to blame, an Ontario one at that).

Having your landing papers still is important, and good. Hang on to those. A copy will need to be sent with your application for the PR card.

Never having had a PR card is no surprise . . . these are more recent than when you were last living in Canada as a PR . . . and this has no effect.

Again, you can work since you have a SIN. What I do not know practically speaking is whether or not you will be required to display the SIN card in order to be hired, so if you do not have the SIN card that might be a practical issue. You can always stop in to a Service Canada office and ask what you can do to get a replacement card. Your U.S. passport as ID plus your landing papers may suffice for this.

If you can positively document at least 730 days spent in Canada in the last five years, you are in compliance with the PR residency obligation. Gather your proof, check it over, and if you are confident about it and can legitimately use your partner's home as a place of residence (even if its a secondary residence, so long as you actually use it as a residence regularly) for the PR card application, make the application. Note however, given the lack of working in Canada, not having filed tax returns in Canada, will most likely trigger a residency determination, so it will not be a routine application, will probably involve a residency determination/examination, you will be required to document your presence in Canada with some proof, and it could take a lot, lot longer than the routine PR card renewal application.

That's what it sounds like the POE officer was referring to. And of course you can count past days even if you have to stay in Canada awhile longer to meet the 730 day threshold . . . for example, even if you are short now (either actually or in terms of lacking proof) but if by December, say, you could look back to December 2010 and in the five years between December 2010 and December 2015 you can prove being in Canada for 730+ days, you can make your application for the PR card and after, probably, going through the residency determination process be delivered a PR card.

Overall, as well, the extent of your ties in Canada help considerably.

Push comes to shove, depending on where in Ontario your partner is located, and depending on your job skills, you could work in New York or Michigan or even Ohio, somewhere fairly close to the border, and commute regularly from Ontario until you met the PR RO.

Or you may find an employer in Ontario who will trust you about the SIN, and you settle in until you accumulate enough days to meet the PR RO.

Could be a bit risky, insurance and registration wise, to continue to drive in Canada using a U.S. drivers license, but like the health care issue, exercising elevated caution can reduce the risks to within manageable levels . . . depending of course on the individual and the circumstances and such.
 

Tee76

Full Member
May 30, 2009
23
0
Thanks for the info! A friend of mine mentioned that i haven't lost my PR status yet...I'm in violation of the residency obligation, but unless i have signed a document relinquishing my permanent resident status or have been served and not appealed a removal order, i remain a permanent resident of Canada....how legit that is..i dont know.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
Tee76 said:
Thanks for the info! A friend of mine mentioned that i haven't lost my PR status yet...I'm in violation of the residency obligation, but unless i have signed a document relinquishing my permanent resident status or have been served and not appealed a removal order, i remain a permanent resident of Canada....how legit that is..i dont know.
Your friend is correct.

But being in breach of the PR RO puts it at risk. Otherwise see above posts.
 

Tee76

Full Member
May 30, 2009
23
0
So basically go back to Canada to "see my girlfriend or family" like i have been every few weeks and just stay? U.S citizen or not, Canada has always been my home. Im just worried about getting a job and that back firing on me as far as my PR status goes and because my SIN has been inactive for years.
 

zeeshan35

Star Member
Nov 3, 2010
63
5
Category........
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Pre-Assessed..
A SIN is never inactive. You can use it for as long as you live. Chances of you getting caught while working are almost negligible since you studied in canada as well. The only issue you might have if they ask for your citizenship status or permanent resident of canada before you start work.

What were your parents citizenship? This might be of some help to you or if you get married to your current girlfriend then things can also work out. I dont think you have much to worry about in terms of immigration.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
Tee76 said:
So basically go back to Canada to "see my girlfriend or family" like i have been every few weeks and just stay? U.S citizen or not, Canada has always been my home. Im just worried about getting a job and that back firing on me as far as my PR status goes and because my SIN has been inactive for years.
The issue is probably more about simply finding a job . . . and again, I do not know (I have been self-employed since coming to Canada to live) to what extent employers require prospective employees to physically present a SIN card. Since there are many, many undocumented FNs working in Canada, so more than a few employers must be hiring without requiring presentation of the SIN card. But those may not be particularly suitable or desirable jobs.

The only interactions which are at much risk for triggering a CIC or CBSA residency inquiry are those with CIC or CBSA. You already have been coming and going across the border, so CBSA does not appear to be identifying you as a person to scrutinize regarding the PR Residency Obligation. So you mostly only need to not make any applications to CIC until you meet the PR RO.

You are a PR and you have a SIN, so there is nothing at all illegal about working in Canada.

Of course getting involved in a criminal investigation could lead to immigration status inquiries, but I trust that is not likely to be a problem for you.

Overall the more time you spend in Canada, the more likely you will not encounter a problem.

As already explored in some depth, the biggest snag is in the practical contingencies for living and working until you have been in Canada long enough to have accumulated more than 730 days presence in Canada within the preceding five years, and not making an application to CIC in the meantime, not until after you are in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. Once you are in compliance (and can prove it ), it is almost as if you never were in breach or violation of the PR RO.
 

Tee76

Full Member
May 30, 2009
23
0
I was just worried i lost my PR due to not meeting the RO the last few years. My mother is American but has been a PR since we moved in 1983. My step father is Canadian, my twin brother who was a PR now has Canadian citizenship because he wanted to join the military years ago. My son also lives there. Criminal things will never be an issue. Im 38 with no record in the US or Canada.

I was just worried because close friends told me just because i still have a SIN that doesnt mean i can work legally in Canada anymore.
 

ttrajan

Champion Member
Oct 14, 2013
2,236
49
Category........
AINP
Job Offer........
Yes
LANDED..........
15-08-2012
Are you entering Canada by USA passport?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
Tee76 said:
I was just worried because close friends told me just because i still have a SIN that doesnt mean i can work legally in Canada anymore.
That is correct, but it does not apply to you since you are still a PR . . .

. . . once a PR, always a PR unless and until you die, become a citizen of Canada, lose PR pursuant to a formal adjudication (issued an enforceable Removal Order or denied a PR Travel Document) or written surrender, or for a refugee, have PR status revoked due to no longer being at risk in the home country.

It is the conjunction of still being a PR and having a SIN which means you can work legally in Canada.