NAIROBI CHC: I NEED PEOPLE WHO CAN CRACK THIS ROCKET SCIENCE CASE.

[Naomi39]

By the way, the quote only applies to marriages inside consulates or embassies "foreign mission in Canada". However if you marry by proxy in lets say the US (some states allow proxy marriages) these marriages are valid in Canada and anywhere else in the world.

This also is from OP 2

"At a proxy marriage one of the participants is not present and has named a proxy to represent him or her. If the law of the country in which the marriage ceremony was performed permits proxy marriages, they are legal marriages for immigration purposes, provided they are legal under Canadian federal law. See definition of “marriage” above and also Section 5.27 above." These speaks to marriage laws in the country in which the marriage took place."

And the federal regulation that applies is as follows:

The federal Marriage (Prohibited Degrees) Act (S.C. 1990, c. 46) [2] prevents the following persons from getting married:
2. (1) Subject to subsection (2), persons related by consanguinity, affinity or adoption are not prohibited from marrying each other by reason only of their relationship. (2) No person shall marry another person if they are related (a) lineally by consanguinity or adoption; (b) as brother and sister by consanguinity, whether by the whole blood or by the half-blood; or (c) as brother and sister by adoption.

Therefore, if Nairobi recognizes proxy marriages as legal, and the marriage was not between 2 people as listed under the federal regulation the marriage is legal and recognized in Canada.

Jomz I appreciate your valuable contribution, I am prepared for either of of their Decision, but the longer it takes the painfull it feels like a life sentence.

 

[jomz]

I know how you are feeling, this is not lost on anyone. This is a hard process. The good news is that mistakes can be fixed.

 

[Naomi39]

I know how you are feeling, this is not lost on anyone. This is a hard process. The good news is that mistakes can be fixed.

Well it is actually hard Jomz but the good news is miracles also happen in life. I still hold the little string of hope that is have until the decision comes. I have a question for you Jomz or anyone who is knowledgeable in this sponsorship issue.

1. If I have to reapply and I submit everything like we did. Will my file goes fast since all the information from the forms and evidence is transferred into MICROFILM?

 

[zardoz]

It is unlikely to be faster than normal. A new application is started all over from the beginning. In all honesty, it is likely to be examined very closely and may take longer, given the history of the current application. I don't think that it will benefit you by offering false optimism..

 

[Naomi39]

It is unlikely to be faster than normal. A new application is started all over from the beginning. In all honesty, it is likely to be examined very closely and may take longer, given the history of the current application. I don't think that it will benefit you by offering false optimism..

I am not trying to offer something to myself but I like to face every situations regardless their degree. All I know it always good to stay positive on everything until one's is proven wrong, that way you will live without too much stress. I will say it again that I believe in miracle.

 

[jomz]

Something else is at play here. Naomi from what we know your husband and you knew that he is married when you 2 were married, and he and you also knew that his marriage was a valid marriage since he filed for a divorce. Worst case scenario CIC reports him to RCMP and he and you may be criminally charged.

"Section 291(1) of the Canadian Criminal Code stipulates that without a legal divorce recognized by Canadian law, it is illegal for a spouse to remarry. Under section 293(1) anyone who agrees or consents to enter into a conjugal relationship of more than one person at the same time or celebrates a rite or a ceremony (such as a marriage ceremony) that sanctions such a relationship is also guilty of a criminal offence."

 

[Naomi39]

Wow Jomz you sound like you have all the answers in your book but I have asked so many questions though out this thread and I wished you would answer them. What I would say is that as human beings there is always a room for error. I am ready for them to prosecute us based on your quote. When I talk I like to put comma not full stop because anything can happen positive or negative.

 

[jomz]

Wow Jomz you sound like you have all the answers in your book but I have asked so many questions though out this thread and I wished you would answer them. What I would say is that as human beings there is always a room for error. I am ready for them to prosecute us based on your quote. When I talk I like to put comma not full stop because anything can happen positive or negative.

I don't even have half the answers. I do wish you and your husband the best, and no matter the error I wish somehow this gets past CIC and you can be reunited. However as human beings when we make errors we pay for them, sometimes the errors are intentional sometimes not. I don't think either one of you thought to do something bad or illegal, and I know that you will accept the consequences and try to fix the error.

 

[Rob_TO]

Something else is at play here. Naomi from what we know your husband and you knew that he is married when you 2 were married, and he and you also knew that his marriage was a valid marriage since he filed for a divorce. Worst case scenario CIC reports him to RCMP and he and you may be criminally charged.

"Section 291(1) of the Canadian Criminal Code stipulates that without a legal divorce recognized by Canadian law, it is illegal for a spouse to remarry. Under section 293(1) anyone who agrees or consents to enter into a conjugal relationship of more than one person at the same time or celebrates a rite or a ceremony (such as a marriage ceremony) that sanctions such a relationship is also guilty of a criminal offence."

I don't think the "criminal" part of rule would apply at all here, since at no point was the husband is a conjugal relationship with 2 wives at once. Even if not divorced on paper, he had separated from his wife physically before getting into a conjugal/married relationship with Naomi39.

By the same principle, a person who is legally married to a previous spouse, can still be in a common-law or conjugal relationship with someone else for PR purposes. As long as they are physically separated from the first spouse they are still married to, CIC says it's ok.

So when they say it's "illegal" for someone not legally divorced to remarry, basically all that would mean is that the 2nd marriage would not be considered valid. It's not like they could be charged for anything under criminal code.

 

[jomz]

I don't think the "criminal" part of rule would apply at all here, since at no point was the husband is a conjugal relationship with 2 wives at once. Even if not divorced on paper, he had separated from his wife physically before getting into a conjugal/married relationship with Naomi39.

By the same principle, a person who is legally married to a previous spouse, can still be in a common-law or conjugal relationship with someone else for PR purposes. As long as they are physically separated from the first spouse they are still married to, CIC says it's ok.

So when they say it's "illegal" for someone not legally divorced to remarry, basically all that would mean is that the 2nd marriage would not be considered valid. It's not like they could be charged for anything under criminal code.

Rob T. I highly doubt criminal charges will arise for them....however your interpretation of the law is actually far from the way it is being interpreted by judges in Canadian courts. The very wording of the section 293(1) of the code describing polygamy as a criminal offence specifically states that one commits a crime merely by “celebrating a rite or a ceremony” that sanctions such a relationship. Very long time ago I worked in a downtown Toronto law firm with some of the best family lawyers in the country and these cases were actually very real.

 

[Naomi39]

I don't think the "criminal" part of rule would apply at all here, since at no point was the husband is a conjugal relationship with 2 wives at once. Even if not divorced on paper, he had separated from his wife physically before getting into a conjugal/married relationship with Naomi39.

By the same principle, a person who is legally married to a previous spouse, can still be in a common-law or conjugal relationship with someone else for PR purposes. As long as they are physically separated from the first spouse they are still married to, CIC says it's ok.

So when they say it's "illegal" for someone not legally divorced to remarry, basically all that would mean is that the 2nd marriage would not be considered valid. It's not like they could be charged for anything under criminal code.

Thanks Rob as well as Jomz. I don't think there is a criminal part here too. Either way positive or negative I am ready to accept that because we will fix it. We have already a plan well prepared in case they reject it. But if they decide and issue the visa we are still ready to purchase a flight ticket. Thanks for that light Rob.

 

[Rob_TO]

Rob T. I highly doubt criminal charges will arise for them....however your interpretation of the law is actually far from the way it is being interpreted by judges in Canadian courts. The very wording of the section 293(1) of the code describing polygamy as a criminal offence specifically states that one commits a crime merely by “celebrating a rite or a ceremony” that sanctions such a relationship. Very long time ago I worked in a downtown Toronto law firm with some of the best family lawyers in the country and these cases were actually very real.

As i said the CIC fully allows people to get into conjugal or common-law relationships and apply for PR, while still being legally married to other people. As long as they are physically separated from the first spouse, this is entirely legal. This is clearly explained in the OP2 manual.

Polygamy would only be charged if the person maintained the relationship with the first spouse... which in this case is not happening whatsoever.

 

[Naomi39]

As i said the CIC fully allows people to get into conjugal or common-law relationships and apply for PR, while still being legally married to other people. As long as they are physically separated from the first spouse, this is entirely legal. This is clearly explained in the OP2 manual.

Polygamy would only be charged if the person maintained the relationship with the first spouse... which in this case is not happening whatsoever.

That is actually the truth because. My husband never slept with his first wife and never met her in person. It was his family which connected him to her that she was a good girl. And he stopped that relationship by writing to CIC Nairobi in 2011 that the woman he thought was his wife is actually someone's else wife, the proof is that she was pregnant and did not want to visit my husband family anymore. With me it is different because I used to be one of his girlfriend so we know each other. I agree with you Rob-T that my husband was not involved in polygamy.

 

[jomz]

http://canlii.org/en/ca/irb/doc/2007/2007canlii68249/2007canlii68249.html?searchUrlHash=AAAAAQAGYmlnYW15AAAAAAE similar case to your Naomi.

 

[jomz]

As i said the CIC fully allows people to get into conjugal or common-law relationships and apply for PR, while still being legally married to other people. As long as they are physically separated from the first spouse, this is entirely legal. This is clearly explained in the OP2 manual.

Polygamy would only be charged if the person maintained the relationship with the first spouse... which in this case is not happening whatsoever.

Rob TO We are not talking about common law. We are discussing marriage, and being married to 2 people at the same time. If what you say is correct it would mean that the 2nd marriage is a valid marriage since a divorce has now been obtained from the 1st but it is not. It is bigamy.

When you are separated and in common law, you can sponsor your common law spouse, however the divorce has to be final prior to landing. But this is not what is being discussed here.