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My expriences so far ... first two days in Toronto!!!

CharlotteJ

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Jul 31, 2009
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Hi Saudi,

Yes. The average rent for a condo (which is considered a modern version of an apartment with in-suite laundry etc) is nowhere less than $1200 a month, you might be lucky to find one that is cheaper, but then it won't be one of the "modern" ones. :)

A studio condo is sure in the price range of $1050 to $1300 depending on location of the building, the building itself and other aspects, if you get a parking too or not or you have a view or not.

I read your email, but haven't had time to respond. Sure I will sometime soon.
 

niwrrehs

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Charlotte

Can i rent in downtown toronto a basement with 1 bedroom and 1 private bathroom and a living room with private entrance amounting to 700cad? Base upon your observation. Thanks

Sherwin
 

humsafar

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Does not want to offend any one, but

I always wonder, why citizen of developed countries from Europe or other places wants Canadian Immigration. I can understand the reaons behind the people from third world countries, but why from developed ones?

Just a question which always circles in my mind,

Hope I will have the opinions from various people from various countries and walks of life.
 

Baloo

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humsafar said:
Does not want to offend any one, but

I always wonder, why citizen of developed countries from Europe or other places wants Canadian Immigration. I can understand the reaons behind the people from third world countries, but why from developed ones?
No offence taken, and you pose a good question.

My wife is Canadian, I am from the UK - my wife is reason enough to be here in Canada.

The list of "other" reasons is long, try these as a sample...

Glance at the economic situation in Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain... other European countries are following their path.
The UK now has a 20% Vat (Tax) rate.
The UK has a population or about 64 million - most of them are in the south east of the country.
UK unemployment is closing on 8% and rising fast (Canada is not far behind at 7.6%)
Quality of life in the UK is constantly being eroded.
UK government is implementing harsh austerity measures.

The UK’s Conservative-led coalition has announced the most drastic budget cuts in living memory, outstripping measures taken by other advanced economies which are also under pressure to sharply reduce public spending.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/53fe06e2-dc98-11df-84f5-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz1AMpbwwtN


In my opinion, the term "developed countries" is a misnomer.
 

CarlyB

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Nov 6, 2010
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humsafar said:
Does not want to offend any one, but

I always wonder, why citizen of developed countries from Europe or other places wants Canadian Immigration. I can understand the reaons behind the people from third world countries, but why from developed ones?
I am also not offended and consider your question to be a valid one. My husband and I have recently migrated here from Australia. I am Canadian born but was raised in Australia - although I continued to hold Canadian citizenship as well as Australian. A lot of people are surprised we have moved here and cite weather as one of the reasons why we should have stayed in Australia. Weather of course is not everything! One of the reasons that we have moved here is because in terms of proximity to places we like to visit, Canada is a lot closer. Housing is also a lot cheaper here in Canada than where we lived in Australia. Plus, given that I was born here, I have always had a long standing desire to return here and see what life is like here. I guess there are many reasons for migration. I am very interested to what others have to say. BTW I am also a regular of Charlotte's posts - ever considered setting up your own blog? I for one would be a follower - plus the thing I really like about Charlotte's posts is her candid way of writing and her consistency - so many people say they are going to write a blog - do a few posts then give up - Charlotte on the other hand has been posting for quite some time and it's great!
 

clubcanada

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Sep 7, 2010
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@humsafar:
You raised a good point and in fact, you indicate an aspect that many people coming from developed countries are not aware of.
I guess that a high percentage of people coming from developed countries come to Canada with a quite different expectation and more or less following a neighbours-grass-is-greener-effect. They might have visited Canada once for vacation and kind of fell in love with the nature, landscape etc. The problem though is, that they know Canada only based on vacation – means they’ve never really worked here nor do they know the country quite well in regards to health care, taxation, cost of living, job culture, etc.
Some people might find a better career perspective in Canada depending on their personal background. Non-academics (roofers, carpenters, mechanics, etc.) have in some areas a better perspective than in western Europe due to various reasons such as regulations or low-cost competition from Eastern Europe. At the same time, People with a university degree will find it hard to get to the same level they had back in their home country unless they look into a complete career change for non-financial reasons. Baloo lists a couple of countries and mentions unemployment in Europe. However, countries such as Germany, Holland, Switzerland currently doing extremely well.
What I’ve seen so far in regards to immigrants from western Europe is that the more you leave behind in your home country the more you’ll regret to have come to Canada…
I guess all in all that people from underdeveloped countries will find more value in coming to Canada (long-term perspective, crime rate, living standard, etc.) than people from developed countries.
 

CarlyB

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Nov 6, 2010
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clubcanada said:
more or less following a neighbours-grass-is-greener-effect. They might have visited Canada once for vacation and kind of fell in love with the nature, landscape etc. The problem though is, that they know Canada only based on vacation – means they've never really worked here nor do they know the country quite well in regards to health care, taxation, cost of living, job culture, etc.
Firstly, I respect that everyone has a right to an opinion. However I do seek to disagree with the above opinion. It does not matter where you come from, it is not easy to come to this country. Whilst I am Canadian born, my husband needed to apply for permanent residency here. PR as everyone on this site will know is not an easy application to make - it requires a lot of commitment and countless hours of paperwork and waiting. Plus wrapping up ones life in another country takes a lot of effort. Therefore, I disagree that someone coming from another developed country would have not spent time considering the viability of such a move - health care, taxation, cost of living, jobs etc. I certainly spent countless hours researching all of these aspects and even made a visit to Canada prior to moving here to assess the viability. I do hope that you will not take offence at my opinion on this matter.
 

Baloo

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CarlyB said:
Firstly, I respect that everyone has a right to an opinion. However I do seek to disagree with the above opinion. It does not matter where you come from, it is not easy to come to this country. Whilst I am Canadian born, my husband needed to apply for permanent residency here. PR as everyone on this site will know is not an easy application to make - it requires a lot of commitment and countless hours of paperwork and waiting. Plus wrapping up ones life in another country takes a lot of effort. Therefore, I disagree that someone coming from another developed country would have not spent time considering the viability of such a move - health care, taxation, cost of living, jobs etc. I certainly spent countless hours researching all of these aspects and even made a visit to Canada prior to moving here to assess the viability. I do hope that you will not take offence at my opinion on this matter.
I certainly agree; My wife and I looked at the good and bad of Canada vs Europe for quite a long time.


clubcanada said:
Baloo lists a couple of countries and mentions unemployment in Europe. However, countries such as Germany, Holland, Switzerland currently doing extremely well.
Indeed some are, but most are ill prepared for a "double dip" in their economy. Even with the current level of debt in Canada, I believe it is better equipped to face an uncertain future.

clubcanada said:
What I've seen so far in regards to immigrants from western Europe is that the more you leave behind in your home country the more you'll regret to have come to Canada...
I guess all in all that people from underdeveloped countries will find more value in coming to Canada (long-term perspective, crime rate, living standard, etc.) than people from developed countries.
I tend to agree, but as I said, I think "developed countries" are the wrong words.
I can understand that those who live in danger, at threat of injury/death/imprisonment/poor living conditions, or who are abused in their own country, have good reason to look for a better place. Others have the freedom to make an open choice, but have something (other than their life) to lose if it does not work out.
 

PG

Full Member
Dec 21, 2010
39
6
Well, Europe always has been the source of immigrants since long. Its not that Europeans are only going to Canada, they are immigrating to Thailand or other Asian countries, Africa or South America too. Meanwhile internal immigration is also quite profound.

The reasons I could see are:
1. High cost of living and maintenance in countries like UK.
2. Europeans tend to travel a lot, its about experiencing a country from near.
3. Improvement of language and taste of different culture.
4. Job is not easily available, and many jobs are of temporary nature.
5. There are even many TV programs here which show the adventurous life of immigrants in countries like Canada, US etc.
6. Many UK people with children say that the new generation is becoming violent and they want to move to Canada for the sake of their kids future.
7. Many West European like to live in "sunny places" as many Western European countries remain under the cloud most of the year.

One can easily observe that the reason is personal interest than any real necessity or force behind.

If I become more specific
1. As clubcanada says roofers, plumbers, mechanics, truck drivers etc. "skilled people" (not engineers or academics) find secured, high paying job in Canada compared to Germany or the Netherlands.
2. Though, in Germany one jobless family can get even better money from the social system than a person in survival job in Canada, many people don't want to live on the government support. In that case many people prefer to go to other countries to find the job.
3. Highly regulated and bureaucratically controlled system, many people don't like this.
4. Europe is saturated in many factors. Many small entrepreneurs find Canada better to start their business.
5. Open sky and vast landmass in Canada lures many people. I can see many offers for houses in remote canada here in local papers of websites.
6. Lets say about Germany, the employers hire people (in normal service sector) differently than they used to do before (so that they reduce cost and liability to the employee).
7. In Germany, the pensioners say they loose a lot of money for health insurance and tax (>30% tax and ca. 15% health insurance).
8. Honesty and humanity is disappearing, discrimination and intolerance is increasing. Thats a rising problem in most of Western Europe.

I don't think that one with stable career and a decent job in Europe moves to Canada. Many people want to enjoy the life in different landscapes, and the move doesn't mean that the life is miserable back home and that move is permanent. For many it can be a "let's give a try".
 

CharlotteJ

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Jul 31, 2009
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humsafar said:
Does not want to offend any one, but

I always wonder, why citizen of developed countries from Europe or other places wants Canadian Immigration. I can understand the reaons behind the people from third world countries, but why from developed ones?

Just a question which always circles in my mind,

Hope I will have the opinions from various people from various countries and walks of life.
::) Good point. Now I am here, I too am wondering that EVERY second of the day that passes by. :( There are times that I say to myself " see, this is why you wanted to be here" then again, a moment where I look around me and wonder "WTF I do here actually?! for what reasons?!".

I give it a try and if I won't find any job by the end of Spring, I ll be only a "tourist" to Canada.

But then again, why would I come over here to spend money on a country that didn't give ma chance to stay, while I can go to the better Southern neighbour with excellent customer service and far beyond exceeding all expectations hospitality and shopping, nature and cities?! ;)

No offence to anybody here, but don't worry, I am not bigoted, just trying to be realistic.

I guess Canada that once we knew from the 70's and 80's, no longer does exist!
 

CharlotteJ

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Jul 31, 2009
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niwrrehs said:
Charlotte

Can i rent in downtown toronto a basement with 1 bedroom and 1 private bathroom and a living room with private entrance amounting to 700cad? Base upon your observation. Thanks

Sherwin
Hi Sherwin,

I don't think so. In downtown, as really downtown downtown, the chance is almost zero. Because most houses and homes in downtown are very old and either small offices or like shared accomodations. The price range you are looking at is only available farther East, West or North of the city, but maybe not in North York. But am sure you will find a good home in Ethobicoke or Markham or in satelitie cities such as Scarborough and Mississauaga.
 

niwrrehs

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ok thanks, ill just gonna add my budget for housing because were actually planning to look for at northyork.
 

CharlotteJ

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Jul 31, 2009
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Well ...

Thank you for the encouraging words again on behalf of my "blogging". I may indeed better go and set up my own website where I can blog.

Who knows, I will find a job and start to root in but sure I will keep up the good work and carry on with my contributions, help people to find some answers and see the things through the eyes of a real honest realistic person who took the plunge and is going through it all alone and with less to no help from other people and looking things up herself, finding the way on her own and seeking for answers her own way and far from contradicted opinions, marketing pruposes and/or any other reason that is there to just rob you from your youth and money.

First of all, my most valuable impression so far is that Canada by far is not what I had expected from it. It might look gorgeous, big, vast, spacious and pretty, but when you are in the cities and deal with the ordinary life, there is nothing that special about it and in fact ,does appear quite tacky and messed up too and poorly organized in the eyes of an Western European like me who accidentally comes from the richest EU country ( fyi, the richest country inside EU, the European Union is the Netherlands with the lowest unemployment rate as it was pusblished two weeks ago across EU and according to this annual survey in Brussels!), so, that is why I am now more than proud to hold on to my Dutch passport and be proud of where I come from but also to be embracing this country and its unique culture as it is just a real country with a real culture, one that is quite complex and somehow confusing, but if you just take it all easy and be an easy-going person too, it won't take long for you to get used to it and go with the flow as I say. :)

My reasons as to move over to Canada was not "seeking for a job", because I was convinced I will find a job in my own field and/or somewhere close to it but on an entry level perhaps, but above all, of the ever increasing gap between Europeans and Immigrants in the Netherlands, the fact people were no longer/ are no longer living together but along side of each other, either you are "one of them" or you are a "foreigner" which is no where close to such conduct here in Canada. As soon as you land, you are considered a Canadian and nobody will even care who you are and where you do come from. But is in most cases keen to get to know you and your culture and adapt or embrace it fully, which having said that, isn't the case in my home country. There, like I told to Saudi in a pm, as soon as you mention you are an Arab and from in his case Saudi Arabia, people will run away from you and consider you being a threat to their culture.

There, you are a visible minority just because of the colour of you hair and your hazel eyes! Not because one is Gay or First Nations or a handicaped etc. " Visible minority" has a true meaning and definition here, but in most EU countries, especially the rather spoiled rich North Western parts, sadly no definition and is solely based on one's perception of you having other skin colour or hair or eye and/or accent than her.

I 've been working for International companies there and believe it or not, I did hear indiginous people talking down on anybody from anywhere even from USA or Canada but not much so about Irish or Brits. Maybe because Irish or Brits are culturally speaking close to their own and so they do associate themselves with them and won't talk down on them, but yeah ... it depends on where you work, where you live and who you are befriend with.

Large cities and/or capital do not represent these well developped industrial countries with rich old history but only rural areas and more so smaller towns where in recent years and by large in the last past two decaded more and more average Joe and Jane kind has been living and settling in as to be far from the "feral species" that are destroying their cultures. So, the county has become like one with two identities, one of a big city with hardly any influence of a real culture as even the foreigners has to adapt themselves in order to fit in and so they set aside much of their traditions and get along with that of their new home and that results in a sort of "boring" society where hardly any other colour and/or taste is to be found or experienced, unlike here in Canada where at least you can see and taste let's say Ethiopean food, real Chinese Chinese or Lebanese while in my country, all that is available is either "fine dining and cuisine" or a few fast food corps that have been lobbying for too long to win the competion and set foot in the country.

So, less tastes, less colours, less fun and less value for your money, unless you go on vacation and can for a while experience something else but that again isn't much different than what you have at home. All you see are Cathedrals, churches, palaces, parks, same people, same shops, same food, etc.

So, sure North America does offer a quite fun and unique perspective for those like me who are interested in the world itself. I am/was one of the few Dutch who was not born in India and didn't speak the language and yet again, did like to watch Bollywood movies, or if there was some dancers performing at a theater did go to see them and marvel at their splendid or did enjoy Japanese music or Chinese cuisine as it should be etc. (don't worry, I am not a hippie!) :p

I remember one of my co-workers telling me: huh? you like all that stuff? eewwww... they are so noisy, if you can call it music, and the food, gosh, all that curry and spices, "yeaks" and I hear everybody else in the department respond " yeaaahhhhkkksssss....eeuwww...groooosssss!!! dirty people with an ugly culture '' ... anyway ... No offence to many of you from India or Pakistan or Sri Lanka, but believe it or not, that is how the majority of people in my country thinks of you!

Yes, they LOVE to go to Thailand, Vietnam, Laos or Cambodja as vacation, why? because they want to see something so old, ugly, chaotic and kind of funny whihc is different than their own peaceful loving environment. Anyway ...

I always found it hard to get used to that "mentality". You can be isolated at work, in your neighbourhood, among your friends, because I should and would always and for years pretend to like what they like and talk about, while none of them really understand my "likes" and "interests" and so I shall keep my mouth shut and don't mention it and play the game until I am away and in Canada or USA for a while and on my holidays as to be who I am and enjoy the flavours, the people, the cultures, the sounds, the sights, you name it.

I wanted to be part of the "world" and not excluded and just be happy for the fact I was living a luxuary life in a rich small nation that does not really know that people in India, Iran, Pakistan, much of Africa and Asia do know what " Potato" is! :)

If you want to hear me talk, then don't have me start the conversation. If you had an idea how often I 've been hearing people asking me " Do people eat or know Potatoe in the Middle East?" :mad: and I say " Did you know that Green Pepper, Carrots and even Tomato was not growing in Europe but in Mexico?, so yes, off course we know what Potato is and we also have oil and gas and lots of other stuff and veggi you 've never heard of"!

Ten days before me leaving NL, I threw a party at work and made a few dishes from my home country "Middle East" and took to work, others too did come up with pot locks and all. Really nobody touched my food. They didn't know what it was and so they didn't touch it! And these were people I 've been working with for years. I was like " How on Earth can one teach them to not be afraid and embrace the world?".

NL is not an immigrant country, I know, but then again, taht doesn't mean they should not ignore or fear those who are living in it and are as good as they are or do it as good as they do.

Anyways...

Lots of reasons for me to come here, personal reasons, but none of lack of a job or being in an industry that faces competition from Poland or Romania etc, because all those I talk about and these are milions of people living there, do not have anu plumber or electrician that is not speaking Dutch coming over to their home and fix things, because they fear being robbed killed or murdered for their money, so if you think that a Polish plumber or engineer has a good chance of making much money in NL or Germany, you are wrong!

I know quite a few expats who were once working with me at an International company in Amsterdam who are now all living in their home country, India, USA, France, Poland or Russia, they all somehow leave the country when they can. None did make plans to stay there forever. Even a Canadian co-worker from Edmonton, is now living with her husband in Edmonton. Once a great job at a Pharmaceutical company in Amsterdam, now a teacher in Edmonton and she is more than happy to be back.

Anyways ...

But we are now here, all of us, we are all new here and we are all the new "Canadians" who can contribute to build this nation from the beginning again and if we talk about these topics with friends and family or coworkers as we live in this country, we sure will contribute each to a better place for the near future new Canadians to be settling here and so they will have better chances of landing jobs and less refusals, rejections, "hidden" discrimination etc and as to know they are welcome and they should keep up the good work, be who they are, but also accept all others as equals and understand that even those from well developped nations are not here for no reason or just because they felt like it, but because they have good reasons to choose for a vibrant challenging place such as Canada.

So, I am happy that our respected forumer " Hamsafar" raised the topic and does at least use this platform to voice his opinion and not go through life with this on his chest and wondering why one from an EU country might come here? No offence towards me Hamsafar, I mean it in a way that there are sadly people out there, who think the same, but don't know or hear me talking or understand such and yet again are reviewing cover letters and applications and if they see a Dutch name or German name, simply ignore it because they think" Oh, you go back to where you come from cause you ll be OK anyway" and might onl focus on names that sound like his own "kind" and invites those, same for people of any other nation.

I do remind a girl, from Afghanistan. We wanted to hire a "receptionist" ... a few years ago at a previous job, big boss asked me to use my magic and find a good receptionist. So I did. I came up with a girl from Afghanistan and one from Russia. He said " Are you sure? I do not want any of both because I am not sure they can speak the Dutch language." " Well, you won't know if you don't meet them anyway, right?" I replied. A whole conversation followed and I had to convince him that it is good to have them over and see who they are. He agreed and we hired the "Afghani" girl. She was so happy and I never forget the night I was at home and knew I had made a person in my country so happy and had given her such a chance to make good name and build up a great resumé. The Russian woman was really bad sadly, she couldn't pronounce some letters in the alphabet and that was totally a disaster so just a day and I had to personally ask her to leave.
:'(

So we hired the Afghani girl and she did an excellent work and later, she found another job and left. Then I was no longer in that department and so their new receptionists were always either calling sick, or were on holiday or pregnant or had to study, or had to attend college or didn't do anything at all while at work but texting or were allergic to perfume and high heels (we had to all wear perfum and high heels and always dressed up etc), so ... yeah, finally we found a woman from Mexico who was not only pretty but also fun and worked really hard and always at work, on time and never complaining about anything and guess what who found her? MOI! :p

But now I am here and I face the same kind of discrimination but this time it is more disappointing and hurting me as I know that those who might decide about my fate are not Canadian Canadians, but people from all over the world who I 've been given a good chance to succeed in my own country but now facing ?! myself?!

So, if I have to return to my " well established old life" and land in one of those jobs where I decide as whether or not to hire somebody of other skin colour or language, then I might still be who I am and do what I 've always done and give them a chance, but hopefully, this whole nation will hear my voice today and think twice before blindly reject any new comer of any skin colour or race or even home country and name simply because he/she thinks that it won't be fair to hire somebody that is not from his/her own culture.

Why I tell you this?

Because I today first handedly got this confirmed by a recruiter that told me in all honesty, that companies these days rather have someboday who really speaks English fluentely and WITHOUT an accent (so Dutch I shall say!, I was like 'huh? I am back in Netherlands?) or they just have bad experiences with certain people and rather weed them out and ignore. So, he couldn't promise me any jobs, although we was struck by my resumé and how very well qualified and skilled and professional I was, did look great and was extremely accepting and flexible in all offered options and choices, (remember: plan A, B, C, D, E, .... Z! story) and yet again, he told me that it depends on employer to want you and not necessarily need you.

Anyway...

So far so good ... I have new hope today and at least am doing a great job as a volunteer, filing up a new system and also offering help arranging and editing/clean up their data base and have impressed the coordinator who personally gave me her cell phone so I can use her as my reference because she now WANTS to be my reference given having seen how organised I am and such a great asset to this country.

" I now know why the Netherlands is such a rich yet little nation as you told me, becaue they had you" She said! ;D

God bless you all and have a great weekend.
 

CharlotteJ

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Jul 31, 2009
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niwrrehs said:
ok thanks, ill just gonna add my budget for housing because were actually planning to look for at northyork.
North York isn't cheap ... believe me. At least not if you want to stay close to subway line.
 

PG

Full Member
Dec 21, 2010
39
6
CharlotteJ,

You are right, discrimination is again on rise in Western Europe. Be it in Holland, Denmark, Germany or France the right wing political parties are gaining. Definitely it will not make Europe a better place to live in a long run.


About your job in Missisauga (I guess I am not wrong), I have read a blog from an Argentinian IT guy, he mentioned the initial job hunting and call center job as one of the worst moment in Canada.