Moving to the US after applying for citizenship

[erzel]

Hi,

I've tried to find a recent post with a similar situation to my own, but couldn't. I have been a PR for a while now, and according to the CIC online
residence calculator, taking into account all my absences, I will be eligible to apply for citizenship on November 17th. I am moving to California on the 27th of November for an indeterminate amount of time, but I would like to go back to Canada in the future. My plan is to apply after the 17th and then leave. Does anyone know if moving to the states can jeopardize my application? I'm wondering if anyone has experience with a similar situation.

I talked to CIC and they said it's best to send them a letter explaining this, but I'm worried that this would put me through the residence questionnaire and would pro-long the application by another year.
I also will need to put down a mailing address in Canada on my application, and my plan is to put my current address asking my landlord to forward the mail. Has anyone done a similar thing? (I was told once that the material sent from CIC cannot go outside of Canada)

Thanks

Erzel.

 

[Alabaman]

Hi,

I've tried to find a recent post with a similar situation to my own, but couldn't. I have been a PR for a while now, and according to the CIC online
residence calculator, taking into account all my absences, I will be eligible to apply for citizenship on November 17th. I am moving to California on the 27th of November for an indeterminate amount of time, but I would like to go back to Canada in the future. My plan is to apply after the 17th and then leave. Does anyone know if moving to the states can jeopardize my application? I'm wondering if anyone has experience with a similar situation.

I talked to CIC and they said it's best to send them a letter explaining this, but I'm worried that this would put me through the residence questionnaire and would pro-long the application by another year.
I also will need to put down a mailing address in Canada on my application, and my plan is to put my current address asking my landlord to forward the mail. Has anyone done a similar thing? (I was told once that the material sent from CIC cannot go outside of Canada)

Thanks

Erzel.

I have friends that were in similar situation. They applied for citizenship and left. The most important thing to do however is to have some one check your mail box and then contact you once a letter from CIC is received. Forwarding your mails would not be a good idea. You should be ready to travel back to Canada on short notice.

One other thing I'd do if I were in your shoes... I'd date and send in my application on November 26th (since you are departing 27th) instead of the actaul day you qualify (November 17th). That way, you have extra 9 days to add to time spent in Canada as allowance for error and CIC "magic". Just some thing to think about. I wouldn't send them any letter too.

Goodluck.

 

[erzel]

Thanks! I forgot about the short time I have to come back. I'll ask my landlord to open my mail, instead of forwarding it.

Erzel

 

[karr1]

Thanks! I forgot about the short time I have to come back. I'll ask my landlord to open my mail, instead of forwarding it.

Erzel

Hi,

I am in the same situation, I am moving to California soon : how did it go? did you get your Canadian citizenship?
Thank you

 

[EasyRider]

1st you need to know that it's becoming harder and harder than in previous years to do what you want to do for a variety of reasons. It was easy several years ago to leave country after applying and return just to claim passport, but no longer so, though Citizenship Act formally didn't change.

CIC is predatory, subtle and passive-aggressive, especially now and with the current government. They will try to squeeze you out of country by prolonging your application processing so you'll be a subject to lose PR status after 3 years out of Canada or will have to return just to wait for decision and to be able to maintain resident status. You also may have problems renewing PR after extended absence and be given RQ for PR renewal and be put in a long haul process.

You'll likely get an RQ that may add up to a year or more to already long basic 21 months average (for straightforward cases) and, moreover, may be asked to see citizenship judge which can easily add another year or more of waiting. So it can easily become >3 years to finalize citizenship application. All your residency declarations and RQ response will be scrutinized meticulously and all vague and all weak points in your case will be used against you in attempt to compromise your residency claims and refuse case based on residency doubts on their discretive "balance of probabilities" criteria.

You see where it's all going.

 

[links18]

1st you need to know that it's becoming harder and harder than in previous years to do what you want to do for a variety of reasons. It was easy several years ago to leave country after applying and return just to claim passport, but no longer so, though Citizenship Act formally didn't change.

CIC is predatory, subtle and passive-aggressive, especially now and with the current government. They will try to squeeze you out of country by prolonging your application processing so you'll be a subject to lose PR status after 3 years out of Canada or will have to return just to wait for decision and to be able to maintain resident status. You also may have problems renewing PR after extended absence and be given RQ for PR renewal and be put in a long haul process.

You'll likely get an RQ that may add up to a year or more to already long basic 21 months average (for straightforward cases) and, moreover, may be asked to see citizenship judge which can easily add another year or more of waiting. So it can easily become >3 years to finalize citizenship application. All your residency declarations and RQ response will be scrutinized meticulously and all vague and all weak points in your case will be used against you in attempt to compromise your residency claims and refuse case based on residency doubts on their discretive "balance of probabilities" criteria.

You see where it's all going.

Yup. I spoke to a lawyer today who said they believe the prolonged wait time for citizenship application processing is intentional. It is now taking on average 21 months for a routine application (no RQ, no citizenship judge). If you leave Canada immediately after filing for citizenship, and your application is challenged, you risk losing PR status before you even get in front of a citizenship judge. At that point, even if you actually did meet the physical presence requirements prior to applying, you cannot receive a grant of citizenship. Its a no-win, Catch-22 situation. Its also moving the goal posts on the middle of the game.

If you call the CIC call centre, they will tell you there is no problem leaving the country after filing. But then some 2 years later, after you have already made life decisions based on that information, you could find out that that was not the case after all. If you end up in front of a citizenship judge, the entire period after your application is open to review. One wonders if there is not a charter case to be brought here?

 

[Leon]

Yup. I spoke to a lawyer today who said they believe the prolonged wait time for citizenship application processing is intentional. It is now taking on average 21 months for a routine application (no RQ, no citizenship judge).

If you look at http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/canada/cit-processing.asp you see it is not the average time, it is the 80% time. I believe they used to report the average time before but I suspect they changed it to 80% because they don't want to be constantly bothered by people who click 1 day over the 50% time and start inquiring like mad because they think something has gone wrong with their application. They used to report 30%, 50% and 80% time for other applications like skilled worker etc. but now they only report the 80% time.

 

[PMM]

Hi

If you look at http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/canada/cit-processing.asp you see it is not the average time, it is the 80% time. I believe they used to report the average time before but I suspect they changed it to 80% because they don't want to be constantly bothered by people who click 1 day over the 50% time and start inquiring like mad because they think something has gone wrong with their application. They used to report 30%, 50% and 80% time for other applications like skilled worker etc. but now they only report the 80% time.

They still do, at http://www.data.gc.ca/default.asp?lang=En&n=F9B7A1E3-1

 

[links18]

If you look at http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/canada/cit-processing.asp you see it is not the average time, it is the 80% time. I believe they used to report the average time before but I suspect they changed it to 80% because they don't want to be constantly bothered by people who click 1 day over the 50% time and start inquiring like mad because they think something has gone wrong with their application. They used to report 30%, 50% and 80% time for other applications like skilled worker etc. but now they only report the 80% time.

Yes, you are correct. The 21 month figure is for 80 percent of cases. That means 20 percent of us are really screwed.

 

[Leon]

Hi


They still do, at http://www.data.gc.ca/default.asp?lang=En&n=F9B7A1E3-1

And "They" is now the open data pilot project and not immigration and it is not exactly user friendly. I searched for cic data and processing times and came up with a file on citizenship. However, it does not show any processing times. It shows the total number of people who applied for citizenship in a given year and the total number of people who became citizens in the same year who probably applied in earlier years. If you take what they call "inventory" to be another name for applications waiting for processing, it seems that the number of applications waiting has increased from about 190,000 in 2007 to 280,000 in 2011.

Their file for PR processing is good though.

 

[Traveler74]

Hi everyone, (EasyRider)

I understand where you are coming from, but I was wondering in a case where you apply for citizenship and leave the country right after, but when you complete your application you already had your best friends address here in Canada as your mailing address avoiding the call to CIC to let them know that you moved out. Will they still slow down your process not knowing if you had left the country or not? My understanding is that you are entitled to receive your citizenship as long as you have lived in Canada for 1095 in a 4 years period and even if you end up losing your PR status by being outside the country because of their delay, your citizenship will be granted eventually.
Quote from CIC website which does not say anything about leaving the country after applying.
"To become Canadian citizens, adults must have lived in Canada for at least three years (1,095 days) in the past four years before applying"

Thanks

 

[akka]

Hi All

I am in similar boat. I have already completed 1095 days.y wife and son will be completing it on Nov 17th.
My home here has a closing date of Oct 30th.I will be updating my adress on October 31st to my friends address.
I am not sure but I feel if I change my address before it may not be treated my primary residence and might subject to capitol gains.
Am I correct in thinking that?

So I want to send my application on October 31st.
Also I have another question : My wife's passport expiring on Jan 2013. So is it good idea to update passport before applying citizenship?
I can do that no problems but at the same time we have US immigration and changing passport may not sound a good idea while entry at the border ,thoug we got green cards now ,not sure.. so can we update passport info later for Canada immigration?Will that be a concern if its issued from US(Indian consulate) or I am not sure if passport is needed at all in application

Appreciate repsonse!!

 

[Leon]

My understanding is that you are entitled to receive your citizenship as long as you have lived in Canada for 1095 in a 4 years period and even if you end up losing your PR status by being outside the country because of their delay, your citizenship will be granted eventually.

According to http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/cp/cp05-eng.pdf you can not have lost your PR status at any point before being granted citizenship:

1.8. Retaining permanent resident status

Paragraph 5(1)(c) of the Citizenship Act stipulates that, pursuant to section 24 of the Immigration Act, an applicant must not lose permanent resident status at any time before being granted citizenship

There is nothing that says you can not leave after applying but keep in mind that they have recently been cracking down on applicants who have applied stating they were living in Canada when they were not. If you apply with your days right on or close to the mark and/or you leave right away after applying, let alone if you do not tell them you are leaving but they find out you are now living outside without having told them, they may take that as an indication that you may have lied about how much you stayed in Canada and may be more likely to give you an RQ which can delay your application by years.

Second, if you fail the test, you will get an interview to prove yourself but good luck convincing them they should give you citizenship if you are at that point not even living in Canada any more. Keep in mind that if you want the opportunity to apply again after an episode like that, because the residency requirement is 3/4 years, if you have been outside Canada for more than 1 year, you will have to stay for 3 years again to be able to apply again.

 

[akka]

Thanks Leon for your reply? So in our case when we have to leave almost immediately after applying, what shoul we metnion,that are we living here or no or leaving?

 

[EasyRider]

I understand where you are coming from, but I was wondering in a case where you apply for citizenship and leave the country right after, but when you complete your application you already had your best friends address here in Canada as your mailing address avoiding the call to CIC to let them know that you moved out. Will they still slow down your process not knowing if you had left the country or not? My understanding is that you are entitled to receive your citizenship as long as you have lived in Canada for 1095 in a 4 years period and even if you end up losing your PR status by being outside the country because of their delay, your citizenship will be granted eventually.
Quote from CIC website which does not say anything about leaving the country after applying.
"To become Canadian citizens, adults must have lived in Canada for at least three years (1,095 days) in the past four years before applying"

In practice you're entitled to receive citizenship not if you stayed 3 out of 4 year, but if you're able to demonstrate that to citizenship judge. As there's no definite proof of physical residence that exists in the nature, it's based on a subjective "balance of probabilities" and an officer/CJ has a lot of flexibility interpreting your evidence and assessing this "balance". That's the real issue here. As I said, Citizenship Act itself didn't change, but what matters the most is it how it works in practice. If a CJ doesn't like your attitude towards Canada and feels you're not interested to live in Canada anymore, but just want to get passport, they may use all weaknesses in your case to present their case in such manner that your residency evidence may not be convincing enough to grant you citizenship.

Don't forget, at the citizenship test you'll inevitably be asked such standard questions like "where you've been living?" (since after application too) and "what were the reasons why you've left Canada?" (if you left) in order to assess your interest and intentions in staying in Canada. I think that if you'll make impression that it's only about getting passport as a ticket, you'll be dragged into a long haul process with all means available-- into a long RQ process and then, possibly, you will require to see a CJ which can make citizenship application process incredibly long that you may lose your PR status if you stay outside of country. Again, your RQ response will be scrutinized in attempt to find weaknesses to refuse citizenship.

CIC is not so dumb and is sensitive to such stuff, especially with the current government.