Manila Tread for English Speakers - join here!

[Luckyman]

I think the cruising on CJG should stop. It's childish and doesn't serve any purpose for your application or his.

While I don't agree that picking at the Manila VO will help anyone, in fact many have been called in for interview because of that, I do believe that his application should be granted special processing... Kinda like getting a free desert at a restaurant after your meal was screwed up.

I think for this, the only thing you can do is write an email and ask... Don't be negative, that won't help, and don't expect a response.... You can just hope. Beyond that, I think will screw us all up.

Cheers... And hope it works out for you!

 

[scos]

You're so utterly clueless, it's almost cute

Really? I'll keep that in mind on my next contract to set up such systems.

No, if the CIC operates as you say, then THEY are clueless since that is a ridiculous way to handle applications. No insurance company, healthcare provider, or even retailer would handle applications that way. The VERY FIRST thing that should be done as applications are received is they should be given a file number and timestamped. Now, they apparently DID timestamp them and thus CJG has his May date, and mine shows the August date.

But then what did they do? In my case apparently NOTHING. Having that info meant they could open the apps in a FIFO order and process them. You are right, processing times may vary, and my app may take longer than another. But this wasn't the case.

They seem to have pulled apps to work on out of that pile in a "seemingly" random order (and shipped others to Ottawa also in no particular order). I KNOW they didn't even open mine till October because when I called for status (when I was overdue according to their "processing times") they said they had NO RECORD of my app in the system. Then magically 2 weeks later (after my app was late by their "working on date") I was suddenly approved (no AOR ever came). It seems my application was not so complex after all (and it wasn't).

The interesting part is they told me that they wouldn't open mine until the "Working on" date in the processing times was equal to the date they received my app. Which seems to imply some kind of FIFO processing (yet others later in August already had approvals, which meant they were opened before me) and that they were very behind ("opening" late July apps in early October). So are they lying?. After all, they say my app wasn't in the system and you seem to imply that it would have been. If they aren't lying then maybe YOU don't know how their system is working. In any case it would seem their processing is a mess.

And to say that staff may fudge numbers is hardly conspiracy talk. Have you ever read about all the scams the NHS in the UK created to make their performance numbers look better? To say such shenanigans don't exist is the height of naïveté. I vetoed the selection of a tech support company at one of my positions due to spotting such activities (which was apparent in their performance charts). As it was, their "working on" date was older than their "processing time". Hmmm...

And your comment that contacting an MP may actually delay an app is hardly a tribute to CIC. That is equivalent to complaining about your dinner in a restaurant, sending it back and having them spit in it. Yes it can happen. Yes you might be wiser not to do it. But no, the staff who spit in your food are not somehow justified. If you are suggesting that this is common then all the more reason for a major shakeup at CIC. People should have the right to good service.

I have set up a number of customer service operations and call centers in my time and I know a thing or two about how to do it PROPERLY. So I take offense to your "clueless" comment. Perhaps we are not all so stupid as to understand the issues at such a "complex" organization.

 

[scos]

While I don't agree that picking at the Manila VO will help anyone

I think the picking is more at CIC in general than Manila in particular. The errors he speaks of seem to have been done here.

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

Tuyen doesn't worry me. He can comment as he pleases.

There is so much lacking in his reasoning. By suggesting that contacting your MP in these types of matters causes more problems then it fixes is absurd. No one has anytime to single out application inquiries from MPs and screw around with them. There are so many inquiries made by MPs applications would never get processed. Any additional delays in processing would only further make CIC look bad.

The system is screwed. The Conservative government continues to cut positions within government but demand for services grow. This is a political decision to make them look fiscally responsible. At the end of the fiscal year they can tell Canadians they have downsized government and saved 100's of millions of tax dollars. This is far from the truth but people will believe it nonetheless.

As for how they process they have no other alternative but to process applications as they come in. That is the only way to determine how long it takes to go through the system. Those results have to be submitted to government to be available to the public. Do those numbers get messed with? Absolutely they do. Managers want to keep their jobs so they will find ways to make the political expectation a reality. If there was a more people friendly government in charge we may well see a different result in processing times.

My application now sits in Manila for 2.5 months. The clock will continue to tick and I will again begin to make inquiries if there has been no change in ECAS by the end of February.

 

[tuyen]

That is equivalent to complaining about your dinner in a restaurant, sending it back and having them spit in it. Yes it can happen. Yes you might be wiser not to do it. But no, the staff who spit in your food are not somehow justified. If you are suggesting that this is common then all the more reason for a major shakeup at CIC. People should have the right to good service.

Oh my god...
And you call ME naive.. :

I have set up a number of customer service operations and call centers in my time and I know a thing or two about how to do it PROPERLY. So I take offense to your "clueless" comment. Perhaps we are not all so stupid as to understand the issues at such a "complex" organization.

How the hell can you compare CIC to a call center? I mean...seriously...

In a call center, you take a call as it comes in, and the support person will STAY on that call until it's finished.

Now...as I've tried to explain - several times now - that's NOT how CIC operates. Not because they're incompetent, but because it's IMPOSSIBLE to process applications on a FIFO basis. This isn't a serial port. We're not talking about the flow of information. We're talking about people opening up applications, going through them, doing verifications and background checks on them, asking for further clarifications and corrections when needed, etc etc etc. Every application will have a completely different amount of processing time compared to any other.

According to YOUR preferred way of doing it (FIFO), the average application would take about 5 years to process, because each application would have to be completely processed from start to finish before any other could even be opened.

Get out of the antiquated FIFO serial mentality, and try thinking in parallel. When one particular application has problems or is taking a long time to verify, it can be set aside while that same case officer moves on to ANOTHER application in the meantime.

FIFO, indeed. Good lord.

 

[tuyen]

Tuyen doesn't worry me. He can comment as he pleases.

There is so much lacking in his reasoning. By suggesting that contacting your MP in these types of matters causes more problems then it fixes is absurd.

These are YOUR words:

"On day 97 I met with my MP who made a call to CIC. On day 98 I received and email from CIC stating that my application had been moved to Ottawa and was missing 2 sponsorship forms and my wife's passport photos."

So let's summarize:

- on day 97, you call your local politician and get him to nag CIC
- on day 98, your file mysteriously has missing forms and passport photos

So even though you're living proof that it DOES happen, you still refuse to acknowledge it. I'm sorry, there's nothing more I can say about it, because you appear to be genetically immune to logic and common sense.

My application now sits in Manila for 2.5 months. The clock will continue to tick and I will again begin to make inquiries if there has been no change in ECAS by the end of February.

Yeah...you just go right ahead and keep making those inquiries, and then come back to me a year from now and we'll try to figure out why your wife is still waiting for her landing papers. :

 

[scos]

Oh my god...
And you call ME naive..

I fail to see what was naive in that statement. That people should expect good customer service? And if CIC were a business they would be in trouble...

In a call center, you take a call as it comes in, and the support person will STAY on that call until it's finished.

In some call centers that is what happens. But that is not what all Customer Service centers are like. Maybe if you are selling something, or handling 1st level tech support, or soliciting for donations. But in insurance for instance, a call may kick off a process that may take weeks to resolve. Those same CSRs will also handle inquiries and provide information for pending litigation and other issues for internal departments as well as brokers and dealers. And the data is subject to all the privacy issues as CIC, and data can span over decades. And I recall issues that actually led to litigations. So no, it isn't as simple as you state.

I understand the information flows and I hate to tell you but some parts are synchronous. And many parts are asynch. And a smart system makes sure to minimize deadlocks and other wasted time between those.

I also never said the whole process is FIFO. However, if my app is received in week one, and yours is received in week 2, then I should have an AOR before you. 100% of the time. But that was NOT the case. In fact many have commented on how you may or may not get an AOR. Why? Because giving an AOR effectively starts a timer. And if you want to hide slow processing you simply don't issue one.

In my case, my app was opened on the "working on" date. Fine, no problem with that. Then why was the rest of August opened in July, when the "working on" date was May? And why were some from June not delayed till after those August ones. We are not talking about working on the app. We are still talking AOR. And if you will recall I said...

Having that info meant they could open the apps in a FIFO order and process them. You are right, processing times may vary, and my app may take longer than another.

See that? If app A comes in then a week later app B comes in, then it is to be expected that app A is opened first, and will have an earlier AOR date than app B. That doesn't mean app A is finished first. But I wasn't talking about being finished. I was talking about other apps received later than mine being opened BEFORE mine. That part of the process is and should be FIFO.

If my app is opened and begins processing then stalls pending new information or whatever then they can go back to the queue of applications and open the next in sequence. When my deadlock is resolved they can continue processing it. But as I have said over and over, that does not affect the initial processing of the app which should be FIFO. In fact, the only time were FIFO becomes problematic is when the app finally reaches the VO. Then you have a semantic issue of who is first. Is the "first in" the one with the earliest stage 1 AOR? Or is it the first one received at the VO? A case can be made for either, but the 1st stage AOR date makes the most sense in order to minimuze processing times. Then the process goes asynch again.

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

These are YOUR words:

"On day 97 I met with my MP who made a call to CIC. On day 98 I received and email from CIC stating that my application had been moved to Ottawa and was missing 2 sponsorship forms and my wife's passport photos."

So let's summarize:

- on day 97, you call your local politician and get him to nag CIC
- on day 98, your file mysteriously has missing forms and passport photos

So even though you're living proof that it DOES happen, you still refuse to acknowledge it. I'm sorry, there's nothing more I can say about it, because you appear to be genetically immune to logic and common sense.

Yeah...you just go right ahead and keep making those inquiries, and then come back to me a year from now and we'll try to figure out why your wife is still waiting for her landing papers. :

LOL.
These are also my words:
I have pointed out to you on more than a few occaissions that the timeframe to process stage 1 had been exceed by a week. The problem existed prior to any inquiry being made. If CIC wanted to be malicious they could have easily just sent my application back as incomplete and make me resubmit the whole thing all over again. Or they could have just denied it outright and make me go through the appeals process.
I will make this clear for you. My complete application arrived in Mississauga on May 10th. At some point it was opened and documents removed and misplaced either in Mississaug or when it got to Ottawa. At the time I contacted my MP I was one of the last May applicants to receive either an AOR or a sponsorship approval. My MP forced them to specifically locate my application. That is not done when you call them on the phone. All they do is check their database to see if an account has been made yet. They do not put you on hold and go look for your application.

Tuyen, do you work for CIC or any other government office? Not likely.

Applications arrive in order of their delivery and that is how they get handled more than less. What happens when applications jump the queue is due to whether or not they have been filed by Immigration lawyers/consultants. processing agents tend to trust what is most familiar and they can process professionally prepared applications faster. Agents have to meet quotas as do offices in general. That is how they determine their productivity. No one has any time to sit around and say, "All these people called their MP's so we will make them wait an extra 6 months." Go talk to your own MP and see just how many inquiries they make a day. My MP says that a slow day is 30 to 40 calls.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Let the group know when you have completed your ESL classes. English comprehension isn't as difficult as it first appears.

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

I also never said the whole process is FIFO. However, if my app is received in week one, and yours is received in week 2, then I should have an AOR before you. 100% of the time. But that was NOT the case. In fact many have commented on how you may or may not get an AOR. Why? Because giving an AOR effectively starts a timer. And if you want to hide slow processing you simply don't issue one.

Exactly. If CIC is malicious with intent it is this lack of process integrity. Scos has correctly pointed out that the beginning process should be based on the applications as they arrive. No agent knows the condition or completeness of any application before they are opened. Unless they know who the sender is. Once an application is opened an AOR should automatically be sent out if the clock is supposed to start there. If the application then lacks merit for approval then it gets set aside on others pass it by.

 

[Steph C]

The stats are manipulated to achieve political ends. Indian immigrants have the largest growing political influence in all 3 levels of politics. Look at how fast applications are processed out of New Delhi. You would have to be pretty naive not to see that there is something rather strange going on if it takes 4-6 months to get processed out of New Delhi and 20 months to get processed through Buffalo (when it was open).

This has always struck me as strange as well. I have been to India on several occasions and I see clearly how it works there. Not only do they love bureaucracy and paperwork more so then any other country, they are just as corrupt as any average banana republic. Can you imagine what it takes to land a cruise ship there. Every minor official first has to receive their bribe of a carton of cigarettes and a bottle of whisky. Can you imagine 70 bags including a carton of Marlboros and a bottle of Jack each being lined up and counted in the back office. Each minor official then lines up and gets their bag. And these are the bribes that are above ground. This has come to be their expected procedure. Imagine what they will want when inspecting the ships stores or anything else. Imagine all the useless pieces of paper in multiples that has to be filled out by each crew and passenger and stamped.. yes stamped, they love stamps in these places. And you're telling me that somehow the Canadian visa office there is the most efficient in the world? I smell fish.

 

[Luckyman]

Um.... Since this is Manila thread for English speakers.... And it's completely gone off the wall, I might as well just say.....

Maligayang bagong taon!

 

[Steph C]

Um.... Since this is Manila thread for English speakers.... And it's completely gone off the wall, I might as well just say.....

Maligayang bagong taon!

Does that mean happy new year?

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

This has always struck me as strange as well. I have been to India on several occasions and I see clearly how it works there. Not only do they love bureaucracy and paperwork more so then any other country, they are just as corrupt as any average banana republic. Can you imagine what it takes to land a cruise ship there. Every minor official first has to receive their bribe of a carton of cigarettes and a bottle of whisky. Can you imagine 70 bags including a carton of Marlboros and a bottle of Jack each being lined up and counted in the back office. Each minor official then lines up and gets their bag. And these are the bribes that are above ground. This has come to be their expected procedure. Imagine what they will want when inspecting the ships stores or anything else. Imagine all the useless pieces of paper in multiples that has to be filled out by each crew and passenger and stamped.. yes stamped, they love stamps in these places. And you're telling me that somehow the Canadian visa office there is the most efficient in the world? I smell fish.

You are also talking about a country where documentation is easy to aquire for the right price. The fish you are smelling is curry fish.
If the process and standards are all the same then one would expect processing times to be faster in western countries since ID and documentation is so important here.

 

[Steph C]

You are also talking about a country where documentation is easy to aquire for the right price. The fish you are smelling is curry fish.
If the process and standards are all the same then one would expect processing times to be faster in western countries since ID and documentation is so important here.

Well if all it takes is a carton of Marlboros and some JD, who's handing them out

 

[Luckyman]

Does that mean happy new year?

Opo... Haha