Looks like Processing Times are Getting Faster!

[us2yow]

and I feel for the employees of CIC who must have to toe the line and "buy in" to the Con-games (pun intended). If you think about it, who knows how angry and frustrated they must be at what "they are being made to do".

Just because they have to seem professional with us doesn't mean they are not seething with anger and frustration at what the place (CIC) has become under the past Minister......I betcha they are not all mean jerks....as public servants who have to work in a Dept which is so front and center to so much bad press and manipulation, they must be doing their own quiet enduring and praying for change....I am sure there are people within who witness so much hippocrisy but don't speak up - usual bills to pay, status quo to embrace.... Life ! interesting...

but things will turn around...they simply HAVE to....

 

[eileenf]

and I feel for the employees of CIC who must have to toe the line

this is another thing one sees in the ATIPs. Employees asking earnest questions ("I assume it's a typo on the RQ to ask for docs outside of the 4 year window?", "We're sending RQs to 50% of our applicants! Please advise!" "We really need to ask for 20 years of docs for those who have been here a long time?" "Shouldn't there be an instruction booklet for RQ?" "Shouldn't there be instructions to only send photocopies like on past RQs?") etc. And then they get a boilerplate "The RQ was formulated quite deliberately. Follow instructions." or somesuch.

There are a lot of earnest, hardworking employees at CIC who are dedicated to public service. But in this case, it seems like their public service was subjugated to the benefit of a political party. It's dirty. It's base to throw your own workforce under the bus.

 

[links18]

When will these faster processing times hit Winnipeg? :'(

Well, perhaps they already have. I have access to two sets of GCMS notes for Winnipeg applicants. One for an applicant who applied in Oct. 2011 and one who applied in March 2013.

The Oct. 2011 applicant's file sat in Sydney untouched until it was sent to Winnipeg 14 months later in December of 2012. Background checks were not done until May of 2013 in Winnipeg, test was held in December of 2013. 25 months to the test. Applicant received form CIT-0520 at test, no oath so far. Applicant has now been waiting over 28 months for a decision.

The March 2013 applicant's file made it out of Sydney to Winnipeg in November 2013. Background checks done in Sydney. Call centre claims test must be scheduled by August 2014. If this is correct, it would be 17 months to test.

Things appear to be picking up, but the processing times in Winnipeg are still nowhere near the 7-8 months we are consistently getting reports about from places like Windsor and Mississauga.

I am still waiting for a reasonable explanation of why such a discrepancy is permissible.

 

[us2yow]

but the processing times in Winnipeg are still nowhere near the 7-8 months we are consistently getting reports about from places like Windsor and Mississauga.

The real reason is most likely to do with the fact that GTA has a very big immigrant base (read as votes) and it is a political strategy to fast track processing in the GTA so they have positive news stories for the media and have curried enough favor with the GTA immigrant base that they hope will translate into votes in the 2015 election (with all the damage done...let them keep hoping though...)

 

[keesio]

The real reason is most likely to do with the fact that GTA has a very big immigrant base (read as votes) and it is a political strategy to fast track processing in the GTA so they have positive news stories for the media and have curried enough favor with the GTA immigrant base that they hope will translate into votes in the 2015 election (with all the damage done...let them keep hoping though...)

Actually it is resourcing. Someone posted some stats awhile back. Basically there are like 32 citizenship judges in all of Canada. 16 (half) of them are in the GTA! All of Manitoba has just 1 judge. If that one judge goes on vacation, everything stalls. But the distribution is based on where immigrants settle when they come to Canada. Since 50% of them end up in the GTA, it makes sense that the GTA has 50% of the judges.

 

[links18]

Actually it is resourcing. Someone posted some stats awhile back. Basically there are like 32 citizenship judges in all of Canada. 16 (half) of them are in the GTA! All of Manitoba has just 1 judge. If that one judge goes on vacation, everything stalls. But the distribution is based on where immigrants settle when they come to Canada. Since 50% of them end up in the GTA, it makes sense that the GTA has 50% of the judges.

What about CIC's previously stated goal of trying to disperse the immigrant population a little more evenly across the country? No wonder immigrants don't want to settle outside the GTA. Services are barely existent, processing times are measured in geologic units, etc.

It doesn't make sense that someone in a less popular destination has to wait four or five times as long to have their application processed. There are ways to address this. Send some Winnipeg files to Ontario to be processed. Temporarily transfer staff from Ontario to Manitoba. Do what it takes to address this geographic inequity. Hopefully, sooner or later someone is going to sue over this and the courts will order CIC to address it. If I could find a lawyer with the stones to do it, I'd be in court tomorrow.

 

[eileenf]

I am still waiting for a reasonable explanation of why such a discrepancy is permissible.

I haven't heard a good explanation of how this disparity would be challenged. Unfortunately, none of us have a right to speedy processing of our applications. One hurdle would be proving that one has suffered a harm due to lack of citizenship processing. Which is really hard to prove. And to prove that the applicant wasn't responsible for the delay. Another would be that a PR's mobility rights? or something? were undermined by unequal processing speeds? But that doesn't work because the PR was able to live in Manitoba, they just didn't get citizenship very quickly...

Being a Manitoban is not a protected class, nor is being someone (like myself) who applied during the "Great Slowdown" of 2011-2012.

Maybe there's some legal logic if documents could be provided showing that specific ridings were purposefully targeted to not get any more voters before election? But that would still be more of a PR problem than a legal problem, as far as I can tell.

I would be curious if you could provide a plausible legal logic by which to challenge this disparity?

Also, the perception of disparity may be exacerbated by reporting bias, since Ontario has 1/2 of all citizenship applicants, so far more Ontarians will report. We don't have solid statistics on this, as of late, and anecdotal reports can't tell the whole story when 300,000 people apply per year.

Though there was an ATIP (CIC citizenship network processing statistics http://residencequestionnaire.wordpress.com/atip-releases/ that broke things down by region.) It shows Ontario at 24 months, Atlantic at 25, BC at 27, Prairies at 27, Québec at 30 for the 12 month period ending March 2013.

 

[keesio]

What about CIC's previously stated goal of trying to disperse the immigrant population a little more evenly across the country? No wonder immigrants don't want to settle outside the GTA. Services are barely existent, processing times are measured in geologic units, etc.

Immigrants are going to go where they feel most comfortable. What makes them feel comfortable is seeing others from their country in their neighborhood. You can advertise all you want about how great it is to live in Calgary with no provincial taxes and good standard of living and lots of jobs but if you are Chinese or East Indian, the GTA is going to look good because of the abundance of others with the same nationality and all that comes with it (shopping, food, etc). It is also no surprise that French speakers like Haitians go to Montreal instead of the GTA.

And CIC does try. That is why they have the PNP to encourage immigration to those areas. But you know what happens? They state their intent to settle there and after they land, they stay awhile to make it look good and then they move to the GTA.

 

[links18]

And CIC does try. That is why they have the PNP to encourage immigration to those areas. But you know what happens? They state their intent to settle there and after they land, they stay awhile to make it look good and then they move to the GTA.

And the poor fools who stayed in Winnipeg get punished with a three wait for citizenship and watch people who applied after them in Ontario already get the right to vote. :-[

 

[nguyentu2001]

And the poor *censored word*s who stayed in Winnipeg get punished with a three wait for citizenship and watch people who applied after them in Ontario already get the right to vote. :-[

Vancouver is not much faster than Winnipeg but at least we have nice weather so the wait is bearable.

 

[keesio]

And the poor *censored word*s who stayed in Winnipeg get punished with a three wait for citizenship and watch people who applied after them in Ontario already get the right to vote. :-[

I do agree that this is pretty stupid. Really, everyone's wait times should be roughly the same. If one office is slower, then you redistribute resources to bring it in line. Winnipeg should have less resources than Toronto for sure. But it shouldn't be so much less that the performance is much worse. The other advantage of the GTA is the offices hire staff that is familiar with the various immigrant groups (For example in mississauga, out of the 5 interviewers I saw, one was Chinese, one was East Indian, one was Jamaican decent - makes sense considering the largest ethnic groups in the GTA). Also just the administrative staff was pretty diverse. Understanding the background of the immigrants will help them grasp concepts better and leads to faster processing. I'm going to bet that the Winnipeg office is nowhere near as diverse nor the staff as well versed in the various cultures of the immigrants applying.

 

[links18]

I haven't heard a good explanation of how this disparity would be challenged. Unfortunately, none of us have a right to speedy processing of our applications. One hurdle would be proving that one has suffered a harm due to lack of citizenship processing. Which is really hard to prove. And to prove that the applicant wasn't responsible for the delay. Another would be that a PR's mobility rights? or something? were undermined by unequal processing speeds? But that doesn't work because the PR was able to live in Manitoba, they just didn't get citizenship very quickly...

Being a Manitoban is not a protected class, nor is being someone (like myself) who applied during the "Great Slowdown" of 2011-2012.

Maybe there's some legal logic if documents could be provided showing that specific ridings were purposefully targeted to not get any more voters before election? But that would still be more of a PR problem than a legal problem, as far as I can tell.

I would be curious if you could provide a plausible legal logic by which to challenge this disparity?

Also, the perception of disparity may be exacerbated by reporting bias, since Ontario has 1/2 of all citizenship applicants, so far more Ontarians will report. We don't have solid statistics on this, as of late, and anecdotal reports can't tell the whole story when 300,000 people apply per year.

Though there was an ATIP (CIC citizenship network processing statistics http://residencequestionnaire.wordpress.com/atip-releases/ that broke things down by region.) It shows Ontario at 24 months, Atlantic at 25, BC at 27, Prairies at 27, Québec at 30 for the 12 month period ending March 2013.

Its called equal treatment under the law for similarly situated persons. You can't discriminate against two people in Canada based on where they live in the delivery of a federal service, which is what is happening. I imagine the courts would say that some variance in processing times between geographic locations is inevitable, but is the massive discrepancy we are seeing right now reasonable? I don't think so.

Moreover, we are entitled to have our citizenship applications decided in a "reasonable" time frame. The fact that the process can be completed in six months in Ontario is evidence that the three to four year wait in Manitoba is prima facie unreasonable and is caused by a misallocation of resources on CIC's part.

I think you are right that all of this would require more access to the statistics to determine just how much of a real variance there is, but I am not aware of a single person in Manitoba to get citizenship in six months. Their files do not even make it out of Sydney in six months.

Of course, all of this is just more evidence of the massive confusion, anger, resentment and mistrust that CIC's Byzantine and secretive way of functioning tends to create. Can someone get to the bottom of this and find out what is fact and what is fiction? Who could do this? An ombudsman? Sadly, there isn't one.

I should add that I understand how frustrating it must be to sit in the RQ black hole and watch people who applied years after you did become citizens. There is no reason why some of the resources devoted to pushing 2013 applicants through, wouldn't be more equitably spent clearing the RQ back log.

 

[links18]

Vancouver is not much faster than Winnipeg but at least we have nice weather so the wait is bearable.

Unless you urgently need to travel or something and are afraid of irking CIC's ire with a trip. This is another point about the discrepancy. Someone in one of the faster offices is only required to maintain PR status for less than a year after applying, while someone in Winnipeg or Vancouver has the added burden of maintaining PR status for years longer.

 

[sinpguy]

How many processing centres they have for citizenship? So if I apply from Saskatchewan where does it goes? Do you guys know?

 

[links18]

I do agree that this is pretty stupid. Really, everyone's wait times should be roughly the same. If one office is slower, then you redistribute resources to bring it in line.

Spot on. Immigration to Manitoba has been picking-up. There are actually quite a few German speaking Mennonite immigrants in South Eastern Manitoba--in Vic Toews old riding no less, yet service standards are abysmal.