July 2020 - Citizenship application

[lifeisbeautiful2018]

Is it worth it to call cic? My application is approaching a year now by July 31 and it was lasted updated on April23 2021. No news after that. I have applied for gcms notes

 

[Das67]

Hi,

Seems you are right and this is really unfortunate for me as I really need this process to be finished ASAP. I 'll apply GCMS notes today and see if something will popup there.

Thanks.

I will suggest you send a webform and ask them to keep your application separated from the rest of your family as you didn't apply together with them. If you read the link @rajkamalmohanram shared still the bottom you will understand that, the purpose of this is mainly a procedure on how to refuse a minor citizenship and every step that needs to be taken. If they refuse your wife's application, then before they refuse your kid citizenship they must assure that the second parent isn't canadian and if the other parent has a citizenship application in progress then IRCC has to link your kid's application to yours. No where in that link it says that IRCC can do what they did to your application.

 

[MrChazz]

Is it worth it to call cic? My application is approaching a year now by July 31 and it was lasted updated on April23 2021. No news after that. I have applied for gcms notes

You can certainly call. But just to save you some time, here is the response you will get: "Sorry, covid problems. But we are working very hard, and things are moving long. Just look at the current tracker. See how everything is "in progress" since 23 April? So just be patient."

 

[MrChazz]

I will suggest you send a webform and ask them to keep your application separated from the rest of your family as you didn't apply together with them. If you read the link @rajkamalmohanram shared still the bottom you will understand that, the purpose of this is mainly a procedure on how to refuse a minor citizenship and every step that needs to be taken. If they refuse your wife's application, then before they refuse your kid citizenship they must assure that the second parent isn't canadian and if the other parent has a citizenship application in progress then IRCC has to link your kid's application to yours. No where in that link it says that IRCC can do what they did to your application.

This.

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

Hi,

I did so and told them that I filed a single application where as my child was included in my wife's application so how come my child is linked to my application? Below is the response from his side:

" I am not sure what happened but only thing I can tell you that the case officers is verifying the child's information which is linked to your application".

I asked from @rajkamalmohanram just to know that if I am the only "lucky one" who's application is being stuck due to this reason as someone else is here as well.

Thanks.

Hi,

I did so and told them that I filed a single application where as my child was included in my wife's application so how come my child is linked to my application? Below is the response from his side:

" I am not sure what happened but only thing I can tell you that the case officers is verifying the child's information which is linked to your application".

I asked from @rajkamalmohanram just to know that if I am the only "lucky one" who's application is being stuck due to this reason as someone else is here as well.

Thanks.

Don't think this is right, concurrent application is when one or both parent apply with the minor. In his case only her wife who applied with the minor is consider to be a family member, he is not a part of family application and IRCC doesn't and can't decide unilaterally to add his application with the rest of his family without him being ok with that.

I have a question about your interpretation. You are assuming that "family" means both the parents and the child, not just the case of the child and the parent with whose application the child was included. So, in this case of @Vigilant, you take "family" to mean all three, even though the father applied separately.

I think that is problematic for this reason: suppose one of other parents did not apply for citizenship. Then how would the entire family, as per your interpretation, be "process the applications together, schedule the family to attend the citizenship ceremony and take the Oath of Citizenship together;"?

Or, suppose that right now @Vigilant withdraws his application, but that of his wife and child still go ahead. Is he nevertheless to have his withdrawn application processed and to be scheduled to take the oath of citizenship, just because he is part of the family?

It seems to me that your interpretation would require that whenever a minor is included in the application of parent, then the other parent, any brothers, and any sisters must also be somehow included, even though they may not even have applied for citizenship. Since there has to be something to process before they take the ceremony, would they be forced to submit applications?

I will suggest you send a webform and ask them to keep your application separated from the rest of your family as you didn't apply together with them. If you read the link @rajkamalmohanram shared still the bottom you will understand that, the purpose of this is mainly a procedure on how to refuse a minor citizenship and every step that needs to be taken. If they refuse your wife's application, then before they refuse your kid citizenship they must assure that the second parent isn't canadian and if the other parent has a citizenship application in progress then IRCC has to link your kid's application to yours. No where in that link it says that IRCC can do what they did to your application.

This.

Based on what's happening with @Vigilant 's application, I think my interpretation of "Concurrent applications" might be correct. However, I agree that there is definitely a chance that I could be wrong. My interpretation of the text was based on what the OP reported so there is certainly room for confirmation bias here.

Having said that...

I think that is problematic for this reason: suppose one of other parents did not apply for citizenship. Then how would the entire family, as per your interpretation, be "process the applications together, schedule the family to attend the citizenship ceremony and take the Oath of Citizenship together;"?

If @Vigilant were to withdraw his application now, then the process of withdrawal would be followed and his application will not move forward. The officer will note this in the GCMS system and the application of mother + minor will continue to be processed together as a family. @Vigilant 's application will NOT be processed because he has withdrawn the application.

It seems to me that your interpretation would require that whenever a minor is included in the application of parent, then the other parent, any brothers, and any sisters must also be somehow included, even though they may not even have applied for citizenship. Since there has to be something to process before they take the ceremony, would they be forced to submit applications?

No. My interpretation doesn't mandate or introduce an obligation that the other parent or siblings of the minor MUST apply for citizenship. The IRCC wording starts like this : "When a minor application is submitted at the same time as an application for one or both parents, the officer should ..." It doesn't say anywhere that the other parent or siblings MUST apply for citizenship together (nor did I). So, the concurrent processing rules apply IF the family members (other parent / siblings) apply for Citizenship. If they don't apply for citizenship, then that's fine.

For example, if @Vigilant had NOT submitted his application and his wife + minor were the only ones that submitted together, their applications would be processed together. Another version of this is if the mother of the child applied first as a single applicant and the father + child applied together a few months later, then these 3 applications will be processed together.

If @Vigilant had 2 kids and he applied with 1 kid first and then his wife applied with the other kid after a few months, then I believe the applications will be processed concurrently.

As you can see, there is no mandate here for the siblings to apply. For example, if @Vigilant had 2 kids and decided not to apply Citizenship for the second kid and @Vigilant applied first with a single application and his wife applied along with the first kid for citizenship, then these 3 applications would be processed concurrently. There is no obligation to apply citizenship for the second kid. Similarly, if one parent decides not to apply for citizenship, so be it. The other parent and the minor can apply together and those will be processed together. There is no obligation for the other parent to apply.

So, the applications of family members WHO HAVE APPLIED will be processed concurrently. There is no mandate for anyone to forcefully submit the citizenship application.

However, I do NOT know (nor does my interpretation explain) what would happen if @Vigilant + minor applied first and his wife applied later as a single applicant. My interpretation doesn't explain this scenario.

... the purpose of this is mainly a procedure on how to refuse a minor citizenship and every step that needs to be taken. If they refuse your wife's application, then before they refuse your kid citizenship they must assure that the second parent isn't canadian and if the other parent has a citizenship application in progress then IRCC has to link your kid's application to yours. No where in that link it says that IRCC can do what they did to your application.

Yup, this might be correct but this doesn't explain why @Vigilant 's application is now being linked to his wife + child's application.

 

[MrChazz]

Based on what's happening with @Vigilant 's application, I think my interpretation of "Concurrent applications" might be correct. However, I agree that there is definitely a chance that I could be wrong. My interpretation of the text was based on what the OP reported so there is certainly room for confirmation bias here.

Having said that...



If @Vigilant were to withdraw his application now, then the process of withdrawal would be followed and his application will not move forward. The officer will note this in the GCMS system and the application of mother + minor will continue to be processed together as a family. @Vigilant 's application will NOT be processed because he has withdrawn the application.

No. My interpretation doesn't mandate that the other parent or sibling of the minor to apply for citizenship. The IRCC wording stars like this : "When a minor application is submitted at the same time as an application for one or both parents, the officer should ..." It doesn't say anywhere that the other parent or siblings MUST apply for citizenship together (nor did I).

For example, if @Vigilant had NOT submitted his application and his wife + minor were the only ones that submitted together, their applications would be processed together. Another version of this is if the mother of the child applied first as a single applicant and the father + child applied together a few months later, then these 3 applications will be processed together.

If @Vigilant had 2 kids and he applied with 1 kid first and then his wife applied with the other kid after a few months, then I believe the applications will be processed concurrently.

As you can see, there is no mandate here for the siblings to apply. For example, if @Vigilant had 2 kids and decided not to apply Citizenship for the second kid and @Vigilant applied first with a single application and his wife applied along with the first kid for citizenship, then these 3 applications would be processed concurrently.

So, the applications of family members WHO HAVE APPLIED will be processed concurrently. There is no mandate for anyone to forcefully submit the citizenship application.

However, I do NOT know (nor does my interpretation explain) what would happen if @Vigilant + minor applied first and his wife applied later as a single applicant. My interpretation doesn't explain this scenario.



Yup, this might be correct but this doesn't explain why @Vigilant 's application is now being linked to his wife + child's application.

TLDR. To cut a long story short, how exactly do you interpret "family"? You seem to be struggling to somehow make things fit @Vigilant's situation and other scenarios that spring to mind as you write. What if is simply the case that some IRCC person has made an error in his case?

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

TLDR. To cut a long story short, how exactly do you interpret "family"? You seem to be struggling to somehow make things fit @Vigilant's situation and other scenarios that spring to mind as you write. What if is simply the case that some IRCC person has made an error in his case?

Well, like I already said, this interpretation might be subject to confirmation bias because I saw the scenario first and then looked up for the rules for that scenario. "You seem to be struggling to somehow make things fit @Vigilant's situation..." might be a result of the said confirmation bias .

To keep it short, if one parent applies first as a single applicant and the other parent applies later along with a minor, then these applications will be linked as a "family application" is what I think. Could be wrong.

Also, I do NOT know what will happen if one parent + minor apply together first and the other parent applies as a single applicant at a later time.

And yes, this could be simply a mistake on the part of IRCC and I am reading into this too much. But unless IRCC confirms this is a mistake or more information comes to light, we can't know for sure if IRCC made a mistake (and my interpretation is wrong) or if IRCC followed the rules correctly (and my interpretation is correct).

@Vigilant => Please contact IRCC about this and let us know what they say. Thank you!

 

[Das67]

Yup, this might be correct but this doesn't explain why @Vigilant 's application is now being linked to his wife + child's application.
[/QUOTE]
Not to argue here but you seem to forget that applications are processed by humans and humans do make mistakes. What about if this was just an error from a human. Nothing more nothing less, if this was me I will still send a webform asking them to keep my application separated as he didn't send it together in the first place and I believe they can't force him to link his application with the rest of his family.

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

Yup, this might be correct but this doesn't explain why @Vigilant 's application is now being linked to his wife + child's application.

Not to argue here but you seem to forget that applications are processed by humans and humans do make mistakes. What about if this was just an error from a human. Nothing more nothing less, if this was me I will still send a webform asking them to keep my application separated as he didn't send it together in the first place and I believe they can't force him to link his application with the rest of his family.

Yup, I agree. Like I mentioned in my previous post, this could simply be an error on the part of IRCC and I'm reading too much into this. Let @Vigilant confirm this with IRCC and based on what they say, we'll know if IRCC made a mistake or if they followed the rules (and my interpretation is correct).

I have requested the OP to send an inquiry to IRCC about this.

About the webform request, that I what I initially suggested before looking up "Concurrent Applications":

I think IRCC, for some reason, is trying to combine his application + his wife/child application into a single application and process them together. If this scenario is true, the only thing he can do to get oath faster is to request IRCC to process these applications separately via webform. Not sure if it will work but it is worth a try.

 

[harirajmohan]

Also, I do NOT know what will happen if one parent + minor apply together first and the other parent applies as a single applicant at a later time.

My case is this. I applied with my son. My wife applied few months after. Our test invites are on separate schedules.

 

[Das67]

My case is this. I applied with my son. My wife applied few months after. Our test invites are on separate schedules.

This is a perfect example and if it was a rule they should have linked your wife's application to the rest of her family.

 

[harirajmohan]

Based on what's happening with @Vigilant 's application, I think my interpretation of "Concurrent applications" might be correct. However, I agree that there is definitely a chance that I could be wrong. My interpretation of the text was based on what the OP reported so there is certainly room for confirmation bias here.

Having said that...



If @Vigilant were to withdraw his application now, then the process of withdrawal would be followed and his application will not move forward. The officer will note this in the GCMS system and the application of mother + minor will continue to be processed together as a family. @Vigilant 's application will NOT be processed because he has withdrawn the application.



No. My interpretation doesn't mandate or introduce an obligation that the other parent or siblings of the minor MUST apply for citizenship. The IRCC wording starts like this : "When a minor application is submitted at the same time as an application for one or both parents, the officer should ..." It doesn't say anywhere that the other parent or siblings MUST apply for citizenship together (nor did I). So, the concurrent processing rules apply IF the family members (other parent / siblings) apply for Citizenship. If they don't apply for citizenship, then that's fine.

For example, if @Vigilant had NOT submitted his application and his wife + minor were the only ones that submitted together, their applications would be processed together. Another version of this is if the mother of the child applied first as a single applicant and the father + child applied together a few months later, then these 3 applications will be processed together.

If @Vigilant had 2 kids and he applied with 1 kid first and then his wife applied with the other kid after a few months, then I believe the applications will be processed concurrently.

As you can see, there is no mandate here for the siblings to apply. For example, if @Vigilant had 2 kids and decided not to apply Citizenship for the second kid and @Vigilant applied first with a single application and his wife applied along with the first kid for citizenship, then these 3 applications would be processed concurrently. There is no obligation to apply citizenship for the second kid. Similarly, if one parent decides not to apply for citizenship, so be it. The other parent and the minor can apply together and those will be processed together. There is no obligation for the other parent to apply.

So, the applications of family members WHO HAVE APPLIED will be processed concurrently. There is no mandate for anyone to forcefully submit the citizenship application.

However, I do NOT know (nor does my interpretation explain) what would happen if @Vigilant + minor applied first and his wife applied later as a single applicant. My interpretation doesn't explain this scenario.



Yup, this might be correct but this doesn't explain why @Vigilant 's application is now being linked to his wife + child's application.

I think that based on that cic article reference, they simply trying to add child's application to the first parent's application so that the citizenship grant date for child gets determined based on the first parent so that if any issues with the first parent's application then they will roll the child's application to the second parent. Thinking it might be the case.

So OP doesnt need to actually do anything as its an internal process/procedure for child's convenience(to make sure child doesnt get left out if one of the parent's application get into issues).

Hi @rajkamalmohanram

I called CIC today to check if there is any update regarding my application. I was surprised when the agent told me that they are verifying the information of my child linked to my application/Profile. I filed my single application in July 2020 where as for my wife and child in Feb 2021. Have you come across anything like that earlier where application of child is linked to other parent instead of the parent with whom original application is filed? And any guess what would be the impact of this on my application? Will it get delayed and they will combine all the applications including my wife's application? My wife still have not received any test request but her BGC were completed in May 2021.

Thanks.

 

[harirajmohan]

This is a perfect example and if it was a rule they should have linked your wife's application to the rest of her family.

I am still confused with what they tell as scheduling oath for the family.
Do you think that our separate applications would receive oath together?

 

[Das67]

I am still confused with what they tell as scheduling oath for the family.
Do you think that our separate applications would receive oath together?

I don't think so if you guys keep your files separated until the end of the process. Your family application doesn't include your wife's application and her application is single application. I believe your son and you will receive oath together as a family for sure. Your wife's oath date might be different from yours.

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

My case is this. I applied with my son. My wife applied few months after. Our test invites are on separate schedules.

This is a perfect example and if it was a rule they should have linked your wife's application to the rest of her family.

Well, we could use this as a valid use-case as well. Like I said, my interpretation doesn't cover this scenario. We could see if @harirajmohan , his wife and child take oath together and if they do, then I guess my interpretation could be extended for this as well.

Please keep us posted @harirajmohan , thank you!