Job ads on the Internet in Canada

[shakira2009]

Hi all,

I just want to share a couple of real stories that I've heard:

1) An acquaintance who works at a major Canadian bank's head office said: "For this particular job opening posted on the company's website, HR is interviewing 10 people this week. But the position will go to an internal candidate and this has been decided already by management. They may be interviewing people for positions in the future, although I'm not certain if they'll ever call them."

2) A classmate who works in the HR dept. of a big, famous retailer told me: "Don't waste time applying to this job (a particular position I asked about), because we've received 1800 resumes already and we also have a lot of internal candidates. The position is going to be filled by a person I know at the head office."

So.... my conclusion is that it's a waste of time to apply to jobs online.

But I wonder, WHY do companies bother to put ads online if the positions are already filled with internal candidates or people they know in their network???

Is it because the HR departments need to justify that they're working?
Is there a legal requirement for companies to post ads even though they don't have a need?
Are they collecting personal information for other purposes?

What do you guys think? Please tell me your experiences or things you've heard. I really need to understand this crappy system...

 

[hrjobs]

I don't have answers to your questions but I know that in Canada companies pay a "referral bonus" (reward) to their employees if they recommend a suitable person. If they can't find candidates this way, they post ads on their websites or request services of a recruitment agency. Maybe they interview a few people when they see good resumes to put them in their database for future opportunities.

 

[shakira2009]

Dear hrjobs,

Thank you for your input. I heard about the referrals too. It makes sense because companies want to save the costs of using Workopolis or Monster.

But why place a job ad in the company website if they already know who's gonna take the job? :

 

[scylla]

So.... my conclusion is that it's a waste of time to apply to jobs online.

But I wonder, WHY do companies bother to put ads online if the positions are already filled with internal candidates or people they know in their network???

Is it because the HR departments need to justify that they're working?
Is there a legal requirement for companies to post ads even though they don't have a need?
Are they collecting personal information for other purposes?

What do you guys think? Please tell me your experiences or things you've heard. I really need to understand this crappy system...

I've worked for the large Canadian banks for 15 years now. My roles have involved a great deal of interviewing and hiring.

Yes - banks do interview candidates who apply for jobs online and yes - we do hire them. Before the holidays I sat through a number of interviews with external candidates for several openings we have within our department. Second round interviews will be held in January and I suspect we will be making job offers to 2-3 individuals. I have never received 1800 resumes for an opening - not even close (retailers may get these types of volumes). 100 would be EXTREMELY high for the types of roles I have hired for. Banks do try to give preference to qualified internal candidates because this creates a strong employee culture. However suitable internal candidates can't always be found. Also, just because you're not selected for one job doesn't mean you won't be contacted later for something else. As an example, I interviewed an external candidate a little over a year ago for a job that she was under qualified for. However I really really liked her. In November I contacted her through LinkedIn and asked her if she was interested in applying for a new job within the team which I thought she'd be a great fit for. She sent in her updates resume and we're scheduled to meet with her next week.

Once you apply online, your information is typically saved by the bank and entered into their database. This means that other departments and teams within the bank now have access to your information as well. I can't count the number of times I have contacted HR and have asked them to search their database for candidates with specific qualifications or specific experience so that I can contact them for a job opening we're having difficulty filling.

So based on my experience, applying online is certainly not a waste of time. But I guess it's your call...

 

[shakira2009]

Hi scylla,

Thank you very much for your reply. My view is that it takes too long for applicants to fill out online job applications for nothing. I've talked to many people (both immigrants and Canadians born & educated in Canada) and the general feeling is 'if you're lucky enough, they'll call you'. Of course it depends on the type of position and the person's qualifications, but for the vast majority of applicants it's very difficult to even get an interview.

Anyway, thank you for sharing your perspective from the employer's side.

 

[scylla]

Hi scylla,

Thank you very much for your reply. My view is that it takes too long for applicants to fill out online job applications for nothing. I've talked to many people (both immigrants and Canadians born & educated in Canada) and the general feeling is 'if you're lucky enough, they'll call you'. Of course it depends on the type of position and the person's qualifications, but for the vast majority of applicants it's very difficult to even get an interview.

Anyway, thank you for sharing your perspective from the employer's side.

In the end the decision is obviously up to you.

I would personally prefer to apply online and have at least some chance of being called - rather than not applying and having zero chance.

FYI - of the three positions we had open, one was filled by promoting someone internally and two were filled by people who applied online.

 

[canadiara]

I've worked for the large Canadian banks for 15 years now. My roles have involved a great deal of interviewing and hiring.

Yes - banks do interview candidates who apply for jobs online and yes - we do hire them. Before the holidays I sat through a number of interviews with external candidates for several openings we have within our department. Second round interviews will be held in January and I suspect we will be making job offers to 2-3 individuals. I have never received 1800 resumes for an opening - not even close (retailers may get these types of volumes). 100 would be EXTREMELY high for the types of roles I have hired for. Banks do try to give preference to qualified internal candidates because this creates a strong employee culture. However suitable internal candidates can't always be found. Also, just because you're not selected for one job doesn't mean you won't be contacted later for something else. As an example, I interviewed an external candidate a little over a year ago for a job that she was under qualified for. However I really really liked her. In November I contacted her through LinkedIn and asked her if she was interested in applying for a new job within the team which I thought she'd be a great fit for. She sent in her updates resume and we're scheduled to meet with her next week.

Once you apply online, your information is typically saved by the bank and entered into their database. This means that other departments and teams within the bank now have access to your information as well. I can't count the number of times I have contacted HR and have asked them to search their database for candidates with specific qualifications or specific experience so that I can contact them for a job opening we're having difficulty filling.

So based on my experience, applying online is certainly not a waste of time. But I guess it's your call...

hi scylla,

you mention you have worked for the great canadian banks. i would like your insight in getting a job in the sector. i have 9 years experience in banking with one of the largest us banks, in europe (no us or canadian experience. however, financial statement evaluation for companies is quite similar in the western world (i do include europe in this) and many international companies use US GAAP rules for their financial statements.) i have been applying for 9 months for any job in canadian banks. i don't have any high demands, i have applied for teller jobs, greeter, customer service, anything. unfortunately, i have not received one phone call, even for a phone interview. in my resume i don't mention i don't have a work permit, nor that i would need visa sponsorship.
my questions are:
1. why am i not getting any phone calls? what would you think, judging from your years of experience in this field, i am doing wrong?
2. what are the chances i will get a visa sponsorship? should i just stop applying to banks and find another way to acquire the work permit?

thank you in advance.

 

[shakira2009]

my questions are:
1. why am i not getting any phone calls? what would you think, judging from your years of experience in this field, i am doing wrong?
2. what are the chances i will get a visa sponsorship? should i just stop applying to banks and find another way to acquire the work permit?

thank you in advance.

Hi canadiara,

Thank you for posting your questions. This is my perspective as a fellow job seeker. I'm living in Toronto -I've been here for about one year now and looking for a job for 6-7 months:

1. It's not only the banks that do not respond to job applicants. I find that NO ONE gives me a reply after I send a resume and cover letter by email. Well, sometimes I do receive automated messages saying "thank you for your application".... It's not that you're doing something wrong, everybody is in the same situation. The key is to keep persisting and be positive.

Also, it may be good to have your resume checked by someone who knows the Canadian job market: a resume coach, a recruiter, an HR manager, or an employment agency (there are many free services available, although you have to be here as a resident)

Another detail: do you put a Canadian address & phone number on your resume? Employers generally don't look at resumes with contact details from abroad. Even if you apply for a job within Canada but in another city, the chances you get called are slim.


2. Right now the situation is very tough and it's highly unlikely that an employer would sponsor a candidate, unless that person has very specialized skills that are not found anywhere in Canada.

Hope this helps....

I welcome others' viewpoints as well.

 

[shakira2009]

Here's a video I want to share about this topic. It's from the US but I think it applies here as well:

Why Jobs Are Listed After They Are Filled
http://live.wsj.com/video/why-jobs-are-listed-after-they-are-filled/D253478F-EC2C-4DCF-91C7-108649C3FD71.html?mod=WSJ_article_outbrain&obref=obnetwork#!D253478F-EC2C-4DCF-91C7-108649C3FD71

 

[scylla]

hi scylla,

you mention you have worked for the great canadian banks. i would like your insight in getting a job in the sector. i have 9 years experience in banking with one of the largest us banks, in europe (no us or canadian experience. however, financial statement evaluation for companies is quite similar in the western world (i do include europe in this) and many international companies use US GAAP rules for their financial statements.) i have been applying for 9 months for any job in canadian banks. i don't have any high demands, i have applied for teller jobs, greeter, customer service, anything. unfortunately, i have not received one phone call, even for a phone interview. in my resume i don't mention i don't have a work permit, nor that i would need visa sponsorship.
my questions are:
1. why am i not getting any phone calls? what would you think, judging from your years of experience in this field, i am doing wrong?
2. what are the chances i will get a visa sponsorship? should i just stop applying to banks and find another way to acquire the work permit?

thank you in advance.

Sorry for the late reply.

You should stop applying to banks and find another way to acquire a work permit.

In order for an employer to obtain approval to hire you, the employer must prove there were no Canadian citizens or PRs who could be hired for the role. There are many qualified Canadians who can be hired for banking roles and for this reason banks know it is next to impossible to get approval to hire a foreign worker. This is why you aren't hearing back from them.

 

[Donnamarie81]

Hi i was wondering if anyone can help me?? ;D Im visiting Detroit city in june this year on holidays, (travelling from ireland) and i was wondering is it possible to visit Canada from Detroit or do you have to be a national?? Can holiday makers cross the border?? I have always wanted to visit Canada so im really hoping this is my chance!!

 

[shakira2009]

Hi i was wondering if anyone can help me?? ;D Im visiting Detroit city in june this year on holidays, (travelling from ireland) and i was wondering is it possible to visit Canada from Detroit or do you have to be a national?? Can holiday makers cross the border?? I have always wanted to visit Canada so im really hoping this is my chance!!

...ehr... a "national" from where?

You can come visit any time (this is a free country), but please check carefully whether you need a Visitor Visa:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/visas.asp

 

[canadiara]

thank you both for taking the time to respond. i haven't mastered the boards in order to get alerts, hence the late response.
i know i should be persistent and moreover, i've started to look at this like my job (ex-job as i'm jobless in any country of the world *sad face*), i've set a target to apply to at least 12 jobs daily. so far i've done it, but there have been no answers yet.
as far as the contact information on my resume, i have canadian address and telephone number on it. i have formatted it according to canadian standards. i have had 1 phone call (after 9 months!), but as soon as they heard i would be needing a visa sponsorship (lmo and work permit) they quickly ran away from me, lol.
regarding the banking industry, i have something no one else in canada has, experience in an environment under crisis, yet they still won't do the lmo. i've started looking into the hospitality industry, but still nothing, as i have no experience there.
i'm seriously troubled here. i sound like a canadian, you can't tell i'm not native from my accent or my english, yet people that can barely speak the language are permanent residents and have work permits... just the other day i called someone for a job and i couldn't understand what they were saying, their english was that bad.
most of the days i'm lost and don't know what to do...

 

[cocosyr]

thank you both for taking the time to respond. i haven't mastered the boards in order to get alerts, hence the late response.
i know i should be persistent and moreover, i've started to look at this like my job (ex-job as i'm jobless in any country of the world *sad face*), i've set a target to apply to at least 12 jobs daily. so far i've done it, but there have been no answers yet.
as far as the contact information on my resume, i have canadian address and telephone number on it. i have formatted it according to canadian standards. i have had 1 phone call (after 9 months!), but as soon as they heard i would be needing a visa sponsorship (lmo and work permit) they quickly ran away from me, lol.
regarding the banking industry, i have something no one else in canada has, experience in an environment under crisis, yet they still won't do the lmo. i've started looking into the hospitality industry, but still nothing, as i have no experience there.
i'm seriously troubled here. i sound like a canadian, you can't tell i'm not native from my accent or my english, yet people that can barely speak the language are permanent residents and have work permits... just the other day i called someone for a job and i couldn't understand what they were saying, their english was that bad.
most of the days i'm lost and don't know what to do...

There are basically two different business sectors: native Canadian-owned business and ethnic Canadian owned relatively small business. If you're colored and/or weren't educated in Canada, it's very hard to get a job in the former, and it's also hard to get a job in the latter unless you have personal ties to the people of your own ethnicity who own a business. So basically it's very hard to get any kind of jobs in Canada, especially if you're a recent immigrant from a foreign or third world country where English is not the primary language.

 

[bullet350]

There are basically two different business sectors: native Canadian-owned business and ethnic Canadian owned relatively small business. If you're colored and/or weren't educated in Canada, it's very hard to get a job in the former, and it's also hard to get a job in the latter unless you have personal ties to the people of your own ethnicity who own a business. So basically it's very hard to get any kind of jobs in Canada, especially if you're a recent immigrant from a foreign or third world country where English is not the primary language.

thanks for heads up