Is it too early to order GCMS Notes?

[JoacRy]

Hi all, next Friday will mark my 2 months since AOR. I'm just wondering if there is any value in ordering GCMS notes.

I'm really concerned as I don't know whether my R10 has passed or not, and from many forum members who have called CIC, they say the call centre staff do not tell you about whether your R10 has passed or not. I need to apply for my BOWP as my WP expires on 26 June.

Appreciate any one's insight into whether there is a penalty if you order GCMS notes 'too early'. Any advice on this subject is appreciated.

 

[bellaluna]

If you intend to find out if your R10 has passed, I think it's OK to do so. You said your BG check switched to "not needed at this time" from "in progress", so it's very likely that you already passed the R10 check.

And I think you can get it for free anyway, so it doesn't cost anything.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/atip/requests-personal.asp

 

[anarsoul]

Hi all, next Friday will mark my 2 months since AOR. I'm just wondering if there is any value in ordering GCMS notes.

I'm really concerned as I don't know whether my R10 has passed or not, and from many forum members who have called CIC, they say the call centre staff do not tell you about whether your R10 has passed or not. I need to apply for my BOWP as my WP expires on 26 June.

Appreciate any one's insight into whether there is a penalty if you order GCMS notes 'too early'. Any advice on this subject is appreciated.

You can apply for BOWP right now, all you need is AOR, see http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/work/permit/extend/permanent.asp

 

[valsanail]

Hi, i am also 2 months waiting applicant, but outlander. Do I have a chance to order those notes?

 

[Luwassa]

Hi all, next Friday will mark my 2 months since AOR. I'm just wondering if there is any value in ordering GCMS notes.

I'm really concerned as I don't know whether my R10 has passed or not, and from many forum members who have called CIC, they say the call centre staff do not tell you about whether your R10 has passed or not. I need to apply for my BOWP as my WP expires on 26 June.

Appreciate any one's insight into whether there is a penalty if you order GCMS notes 'too early'. Any advice on this subject is appreciated.

I am in the same boat. I am OINP PNP CEC Inland currently working in Alberta. And my current employer wants to give me a new contract and apply a closed work permit. I will be marking 2 month mid April and my current work permit expires June 30. BGC changed to Not Needed the first week of March. Should I go ahead and apply BOWP?

 

[andy108]

It seems like R10 has been passed, so... why do u want to :-X

 

[legalfalcon]

Ordering the GCMS notes is the legal right of an applicant. Now whether should you order the GCMS notes within the first 3-4 months of filing your application, I would say no. Ordering GCMS notes unnecessarily burdens the system. But no one can stop you if you would like to.

I wrote a post earlier today and posting it again here. So read it and you will know what GCMS notes are for and how they help.

This is a mere hunch and nothing official. Based on how the CIC is processing the applications, and upon careful review of my personal GCMS notes, this is what I can conclude:

1. GCMS notes make an agent pick up your file and if there is a something pending, they will usually update it. So GCMS notes do make your file move, but not always. Ordering the GCMS notes is an applicant's legal right. You can order as many GCMS notes as you would like. But, please don't abuse the process. I would suggest that if you have crossed the 5-month mark, and there has not been much movement, you should definitely order the GCMS notes. It will give you a picture of what has happened and if there are any concerns, that you can rectify. Next set should be ordered as soon as your cross the 6-month mark and see if there has been any movement. At this time it is advisable to call CIC and send an email or a CSE to figure out what is happening with your file.

2. Seeing the recent trends, there have been virtually no PPR issued in this week or the last. This could be due to various reasons. CIC might be trying to clear the old files, change in the policy, or a system glitch. This is all speculation. Usually, the PNP applicants are being processed without delay. If their files can be processed, so can others, but it is a priority issue. To understand why this happens, welcome to the obscure world of federalism. The immigration is within the authority of the federal government, but the provinces had their unique needs, so they pick up applicants from the pool. Since the PNP is a province approved file, CIC puts them on priority not to piss off the provinces and create a political issue in the parliament or the provinces enacting laws within their purview at the state legislative levels.

What to do is your application is still under process and you are almost at the 6-month mark?

6 months has now become a myth with CIC stating that 6 months is the average time it took to clear 80% of the files, which I highly doubt at this stage. So stay calm and be positive. Order the GCMS notes, if you see something off or new, let everyone know, check the interpreting the GCMS notes thread, BGC in progress and still waiting thread, and six months and not finalized thread. I personally believe that if you follow this you should have a clear picture of what stage is your file at. Rest it depends on the CIC, and their backlog. But most of the delays are due to the CIC and not the applicants. So don't get paranoid that there is something wrong with your file. If you see the thread of applicants who had passed 6 months, they got approved, some had to wait for 7-8 months, but finally they got the PPR.

Ministerial Instructions Talk about processing delays, politics cannot be ignored. With the new government in power, they will have a new set of priorities, which we are all aware of, family unification, spouse visas etc. If the new Immigration Minster has given new Ministerial Instructions, then the whole EE process will be affected and the delays will be across the EE, which I am anticipating. I am searching for new ministerial instructions, if you have any links, please share. Here is an old article I came across. <http://www.jefflilaw.com/blog/2012/06/18/immigration-lawyer-wins-battle-against-cic-over-processing-delay-and-application-wipe-out/>

Stay calm and be positive. It is frustrating to wait and sometimes feels that it will never happen, this is when you need to find a reason to inspire yourself and believe in yourself.

Hope this helps. If there is anything that I can help anyone of you, please do not hesitate to let me know, or send me a PM if there is something that you would not like to share here.

God Speed!

 

[aeropostale]

I agree with Legalfalcon...

GCMS notes not needed until you reach into your 5-6 month of processing post AOR..

 

[cjs]

I agree with Legalfalcon...

GCMS notes not needed until you reach into your 5-6 month of processing post AOR..

I think ordering gcms in first 2 months help if you need clarity on A11.2 or R10. Plus there are chances that they have accessed first review of eligibility which states if work experience, reference letters and roles and responsibilities are relevant or not.
I have seen all this happening in first 2 months of application in gcms notes of so many applicants.
So if one want to have some early clarity over application processing then it's better to order gcms. But it should not be abused. If necessary only then gcms should be ordered. If you are clear that all yours docs are fine then order if you do not get PPR in 4.5 months.

 

[legalfalcon]

I think ordering gcms in first 2 months help if you need clarity on A11.2 or R10. Plus there are chances that they have accessed first review of eligibility which states if work experience, reference letters and roles and responsibilities are relevant or not.
I have seen all this happening in first 2 months of application in gcms notes of so many applicants.
So if one want to have some early clarity over application processing then it's better to order gcms. But it should not be abused. If necessary only then gcms should be ordered. If you are clear that all yours docs are fine then order if you do not get PPR in 4.5 months.

I differ. R10 is the first stringent test to cover. If your application is incomplete, your application will be rejected before your get your notes. What is important is to if there are any issues with your eligibility. Here is an analysis I did, hope it helps you in understanding how an application is processed.

• As per the trends, your eligibility is cleared within the first 5 months and then what is left is the security and criminality. This is for the FSW (outland). For the inland applicants, the process is different, their BGC goes in progress within a few days after they receive the AoR. So its is difficult to predict if it is just a technical issue, or the BGC is initiated sooner in the application.
  
  The anatomy of an standard application is as follows:
  
  1. Enter the EE pool.
  
  2. Receive the ITA.
  
  3. File application and supporting documents.
  
  4. AoR - Automatically acknowledged, usually on the same day as submission.
  
  5. The first step is to check for completeness. This usually triggers the application review "IN PROGRESS." This is done at the Centralized Intake Office (CIO).
  
  6. Next stage is the R10 review. This is the first stringent check of the application against the EE profile you created. The Regulation 10 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations imposes a strict liability on the applicants to account for all documents uploaded, satisfy what was stated in the EE profile, and ensure that there are no gaps. If you do not provide the documents or they are filed incorrectly, your application can be rejected due to the strict liability on the applicant under this regulation. However, a lot depends on the agent reviewing the file. Under the R 10 review your IELTS, ECA are checked against the websites to ascertain that there is no misrepresentation. (R10 review is done within the 1-3 months of filing the application). If an applicants age has changed from EE profile to ITA, then the same is recorded and his score is affected. This is also done at the CIO level. Most of the applications are rejected here.
  
  7. At the R10 review if you have any documents missing, the application is rejected, or more time is given to file the document if there is a Letter of Explanation (LoE). It largely depends on the agent reviewing it. Some are brutal and will reject the application even for a minor error.
  
  8. Usually by this stage the medicals are also passed. Recently some applicants received request to re-access their medicals when the file reached the Local Visa Office (LVO). I have a theory for this, but in most cases, once the medicals are passed, they are good until the final review stage. The applicants who received a re-assesment for the medicals could be because of two reasons:
  a. The doctor or the facility which examined them had a complaint against it, or the CIC found something fishy about how things were being conducted there; or
  b. The medicals did not disclose the required parameters, or the applicant had an underlying medical issue, which the CIC wanted to get re-assessed.
  
  8. Now the next stage is to determine eligibility, i.e. whether the application meets the program prerequisites under which it is filed. For FSW, your experience, letters of reference, education, etc are in order. For the PNP, FSW and your nomination is present, for CEC, your Canadian experience is on file. And, so on so forth for the other categories. The objective here is to review whether you meet the program threshold and what you claim is correct. If there is any suspicion, or things don't sound good, the agent can send you application for further review. Which includes an interview, extra doc request etc. If the applicant meets the requirements, and his score is over the cut off for the ITA she received, his eligibility is passed. If there are issues, they will be addressed. This usually happens at the LVO. This stage happens when the application is usually 4-5 months into the process. At this stage, if the eligibility is met, the chances of refusal considerably go down, unless there is a criminal history. However, if your score goes down due to CIC not acknowledging your experience, NOC and reference letters not matching, or a change in age, the application is rejected.
  
  9. As soon as the eligibility is met, next comes the security and criminality (or background check). Usually the criminality is met through the Police Clearance Certificates (PCC) uploaded with the application. If the applicant has been to a country which is suspicious, or your travel history does show frequent visits to a country without any explanation, the same are recorded and evaluated. If things look good, your criminality is passed. A lot of applicants receive a request for Schedule A at this stage to ensure no gap time is present and the history is clear.
  
  10. The last and the final stage is the security. This is a serious & time-consuming stage, involving many agencies, including Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS), International Police (INTERPOL), Criminal Database Checking & touch-base with Local Police. Many things are considered here. Number of countries visited, Applicant coming from 'certain' countries, past law enforcement or military record, Prolonged stay in a country w/out sufficient docs to prove cause, frequent traveling to certain nations, your *Name (?), Inter-Religion/Nationality Marriages etc. If everything is simple & straight, the file soon gets into the 'final review' stage. If there are any 'red flags', the case goes into a 'spin'. Then the file might go to the local Police/intelligence agencies; the outcome/timeframe of which is beyond the control of CIC. And thereby the timeframe can be anything [sometimes beyond 1yr]. But, usually this stage should be over within 1-2 months. However, a point to be noted is that the applicant can also be called for an Interview [at this stage], due to this reason. For some people the security has a quick turn around. But in the last two weeks a lot of applicants are stuck at this stage.
  
  11. At the final review, when the security results come in, the PPR is issued.
  
  Now, this is NO way is a generalization of the process. Some applications are processed much faster, some are slow. This is what I could gather from my GCMS notes, my experience with dealing with the immigration authorities in US on behalf of my clients and my personal application which is still in progress.
  
  This is only for information to provide a picture about the process, but CIC has never disclosed their processing procedure. However, looking into some immigration cases, and the information through the GCMS notes available on the forum, this is the best generalization I could come up with. Albeit, for some applicants the criminality is done before the eligibility is checked, for other after. So please don't debate as to how one case you saw was different from what I have stated.
  
  This is just an overview. If you do not find it appealing, just ignore it. If it was up to me, I would process all applications much faster.
  
  But, this is a long wait and probably the most important decision you will make in your life. Be optimistic, helpful and supportive of others. This forum is an excellent resource for many, so even when you receive your PPR, please hang on for a few more months and update your timelines and answer any questions other applicants may have. Don't be a parasite.

 

[cjs]

I differ. R10 is the first stringent test to cover. If your application is incomplete, your application will be rejected before your get your notes. What is important is to if there are any issues with your eligibility. Here is an analysis I did, hope it helps you in understanding how an application is processed.

• As per the trends, your eligibility is cleared within the first 5 months and then what is left is the security and criminality. This is for the FSW (outland). For the inland applicants, the process is different, their BGC goes in progress within a few days after they receive the AoR. So its is difficult to predict if it is just a technical issue, or the BGC is initiated sooner in the application.
  
  The anatomy of an standard application is as follows:
  
  1. Enter the EE pool.
  
  2. Receive the ITA.
  
  3. File application and supporting documents.
  
  4. AoR - Automatically acknowledged, usually on the same day as submission.
  
  5. The first step is to check for completeness. This usually triggers the application review "IN PROGRESS." This is done at the Centralized Intake Office (CIO).
  
  6. Next stage is the R10 review. This is the first stringent check of the application against the EE profile you created. The Regulation 10 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations imposes a strict liability on the applicants to account for all documents uploaded, satisfy what was stated in the EE profile, and ensure that there are no gaps. If you do not provide the documents or they are filed incorrectly, your application can be rejected due to the strict liability on the applicant under this regulation. However, a lot depends on the agent reviewing the file. Under the R 10 review your IELTS, ECA are checked against the websites to ascertain that there is no misrepresentation. (R10 review is done within the 1-3 months of filing the application). If an applicants age has changed from EE profile to ITA, then the same is recorded and his score is affected. This is also done at the CIO level. Most of the applications are rejected here.
  
  7. At the R10 review if you have any documents missing, the application is rejected, or more time is given to file the document if there is a Letter of Explanation (LoE). It largely depends on the agent reviewing it. Some are brutal and will reject the application even for a minor error.
  
  8. Usually by this stage the medicals are also passed. Recently some applicants received request to re-access their medicals when the file reached the Local Visa Office (LVO). I have a theory for this, but in most cases, once the medicals are passed, they are good until the final review stage. The applicants who received a re-assesment for the medicals could be because of two reasons:
  a. The doctor or the facility which examined them had a complaint against it, or the CIC found something fishy about how things were being conducted there; or
  b. The medicals did not disclose the required parameters, or the applicant had an underlying medical issue, which the CIC wanted to get re-assessed.
  
  8. Now the next stage is to determine eligibility, i.e. whether the application meets the program prerequisites under which it is filed. For FSW, your experience, letters of reference, education, etc are in order. For the PNP, FSW and your nomination is present, for CEC, your Canadian experience is on file. And, so on so forth for the other categories. The objective here is to review whether you meet the program threshold and what you claim is correct. If there is any suspicion, or things don't sound good, the agent can send you application for further review. Which includes an interview, extra doc request etc. If the applicant meets the requirements, and his score is over the cut off for the ITA she received, his eligibility is passed. If there are issues, they will be addressed. This usually happens at the LVO. This stage happens when the application is usually 4-5 months into the process. At this stage, if the eligibility is met, the chances of refusal considerably go down, unless there is a criminal history. However, if your score goes down due to CIC not acknowledging your experience, NOC and reference letters not matching, or a change in age, the application is rejected.
  
  9. As soon as the eligibility is met, next comes the security and criminality (or background check). Usually the criminality is met through the Police Clearance Certificates (PCC) uploaded with the application. If the applicant has been to a country which is suspicious, or your travel history does show frequent visits to a country without any explanation, the same are recorded and evaluated. If things look good, your criminality is passed. A lot of applicants receive a request for Schedule A at this stage to ensure no gap time is present and the history is clear.
  
  10. The last and the final stage is the security. This is a serious & time-consuming stage, involving many agencies, including Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS), International Police (INTERPOL), Criminal Database Checking & touch-base with Local Police. Many things are considered here. Number of countries visited, Applicant coming from 'certain' countries, past law enforcement or military record, Prolonged stay in a country w/out sufficient docs to prove cause, frequent traveling to certain nations, your *Name (?), Inter-Religion/Nationality Marriages etc. If everything is simple & straight, the file soon gets into the 'final review' stage. If there are any 'red flags', the case goes into a 'spin'. Then the file might go to the local Police/intelligence agencies; the outcome/timeframe of which is beyond the control of CIC. And thereby the timeframe can be anything [sometimes beyond 1yr]. But, usually this stage should be over within 1-2 months. However, a point to be noted is that the applicant can also be called for an Interview [at this stage], due to this reason. For some people the security has a quick turn around. But in the last two weeks a lot of applicants are stuck at this stage.
  
  11. At the final review, when the security results come in, the PPR is issued.
  
  Now, this is NO way is a generalization of the process. Some applications are processed much faster, some are slow. This is what I could gather from my GCMS notes, my experience with dealing with the immigration authorities in US on behalf of my clients and my personal application which is still in progress.
  
  This is only for information to provide a picture about the process, but CIC has never disclosed their processing procedure. However, looking into some immigration cases, and the information through the GCMS notes available on the forum, this is the best generalization I could come up with. Albeit, for some applicants the criminality is done before the eligibility is checked, for other after. So please don't debate as to how one case you saw was different from what I have stated.
  
  This is just an overview. If you do not find it appealing, just ignore it. If it was up to me, I would process all applications much faster.
  
  But, this is a long wait and probably the most important decision you will make in your life. Be optimistic, helpful and supportive of others. This forum is an excellent resource for many, so even when you receive your PPR, please hang on for a few more months and update your timelines and answer any questions other applicants may have. Don't be a parasite.

I agree whatever you have written. But I am speaking from my experience. I have seen first eligibility review of reference letters and experience in first two months. Where agent (not officer) says reference letters are in accordance with NOC XXXX and PA hold minimum experience of x years required for XXXXX program..
Now suppose if agent says more clarity required or roles responsibility letter is not detailed. Then from gcms notes applicant can send more detailed letter through CSE because such applications are rejected by officer which is going to happen in 5th 6th month. By then applicant can send more details through CSE and make his case strong. That is why I think if there is any doubt then ordering gcms after 2 months can be beneficial.

 

[honeyarya]

BUT WHAT ABOUT AN APPLICATION WHERE 2 MONTHS JUST PASSED AND STILL MEDICAL REVIEW IN PROGRESS.

SHALL I ORDER GCMS NOTES.

 

[cjs]

BUT WHAT ABOUT AN APPLICATION WHERE 2 MONTHS JUST PASSED AND STILL MEDICAL REVIEW IN PROGRESS.

SHALL I ORDER GCMS NOTES.

If you know the reason of delayed medical assessment then leave it. Don't order. If you do not know the reason behind it and you are sure that your clinic has send all reports on time and there was no need of further medical assessment, then you should order to see what is happening with your application.
But I think there will be nothing much in those gcms. Because IMO all work on an application starts only after medical is passed.

 

[legalfalcon]

I agree whatever you have written. But I am speaking from my experience. I have seen first eligibility review of reference letters and experience in first two months. Where agent (not officer) says reference letters are in accordance with NOC XXXX and PA hold minimum experience of x years required for XXXXX program..
Now suppose if agent says more clarity required or roles responsibility letter is not detailed. Then from gcms notes applicant can send more detailed letter through CSE because such applications are rejected by officer which is going to happen in 5th 6th month. By then applicant can send more details through CSE and make his case strong. That is why I think if there is any doubt then ordering gcms after 2 months can be beneficial.

I agree that some applications are processed much faster, but I still don't see a need for GCMS notes until you are in your 5th month. It is an applicant's right to get them and no one can stop him. If you have concerns with your application, by all means go ahead and get the Notes.

 

[legalfalcon]

BUT WHAT ABOUT AN APPLICATION WHERE 2 MONTHS JUST PASSED AND STILL MEDICAL REVIEW IN PROGRESS.

SHALL I ORDER GCMS NOTES.

Unfortunately the GCMS notes say nothing about the medical. It only shows if the medical is passed or not. There are no notes until an application is rejected on a medical ground when the agent will inform you.

The best way to deal with the medical is to get a copy of your upfront medical when it is finalized and submitted to CIC. You will know if everything is fine or something is off. If everything is normal, don't panic. Your medical will pass.

Because IMO all work on an application starts only after medical is passed.

No, the application processing starts immediately and the medicals are reviewed at the same time. Usually, the medicals are the first to be reviewed since it is done by a different set of people and the CIC agents have no role to play in it. In many cases R10 is completed before the medicals are passed. Sometimes the medicals are passed before the R10, it all depends on the workload.

Pre-EE the medicals were the last thing. They are requested when the application was approved. In EE, it is upfront and the review happens simultaneously.