Ircc is making students depressed

[Bishops2020]

Exactly. Looks like our lives are a joke despite slogging every second of the way till now. Is it that easy to go back on a life choice one has made long ago & to change course when one has proceeded so far along the way already.


Just because we aren't privileged to have been born in the west, our lives can get destroyed despite having qualified enough?

Wow. Great. A pandemic shows the true nature of humans - not valuing merit, skills & high academic credentials just because the person is an "outsider".

I wonder whether they'll treat international students from the UK, France, New Zealand, etc. the same way too.

Yep they do, all international students are subjected to the same rules (except US). The plane my daughter should have been on this week left from Paris. But only the returning mainly French nationals were on that plane, French nationals make up 5% of the student population or 150 students normally. Universite Sherbrooke next door has reported they are missing 1000 French nationals unable to travel, they usually have around 4000 French nationals out of a student body or around 30,000. It is especially difficult for this university. Universite de Sherbrooke is also doing in person classes. Estrie was not hit hard by the pandemic, no-one has died there since April, no-one is hospitalized, only a handful of infections traced back to contact with near Montreal which is 2 hours away - no-one could enter Montreal until recently except for essential travel, when restrictions were lifted, it caused a handful more infections in Estrie. The pandemic is now much more under control in Quebec, it's the other Canadian provinces to the west where the infection looks less stable.

 

[primaprime]

With all due respect, the generalisation that you make here is ridiculous & patronizing.

Not all international students are recruited for money.

I am an international student and have been offered space in a highly competitive, very selective graduate level program at a top ranked public university.

I am about to start TA and RA positions.

Not everyone goes for diplomas & certificates.


So please don't group all students into the category of "recruited for money". Some international have consistently topped all their lives, have very high academic credentials, and it isn't as easy to suddenly change a major life choice as you're suggesting - some students aren't simply cash cows to throw away cash elsewhere to study now. We are humans as well who've gone through a lot, and invested intangibles in this life choice.


As I said earlier, if they aren't even going to stick to their earlier promise of allowing those approved before March 18th inside, then, they should have not played the sinister game of keeping people in the loop, and giving hope to people who've already advanced so much in this path.


Why not announce no international student would be admitted henceforth? Since anyway borders are going to be closed till 2023, right?


And no one is asking then to lift the travel restrictions. The issue is that till June end, the IRCC website simply stated that those with an approval before March 18th can enter. Starting July begininng, they went back on their word & added that we need an "essential" reason to enter, while simultaneously allowing students with "non-essential" reasons inside at the border. Now, my online graduate level classes are supposedly deemed "non-essential" and therefore I can't board a flight from my home country. But what about those who still manage to use unfair means to board a flight & get to the border, with online classes, and are actually allowed inside even with a "non-essential" reason? Where is the consistency? This is the problem. I suppose 6 months aren't enough to put together coherent rules & also to implement them properly.


I now have to attend rigorous research-intensive grad classes sitting 12.5 hours away. Of course, the extent to which this affects my mental & physical health is no one's concern & I understand that.


Anyway, those who preach here can only do that. There's hardly any respect given to other humans & their suffering here.

You're free to tell yourself that you're different, but every school from McGill on down appreciates international students first and foremost for their ability to plug holes in their budgets.

These are trying times for everyone and it is not realistic to expect perfect fairness and consistency. The government has regularly posted updated guidelines on its website, made changes to the application process and PGWP eligibility requirements to benefit students, and yes, given wide discretion to CBSA officers on what constitutes essential travel, so they can accommodate a variety of individual situations.

The end result of this is Canada is keeping the COVID-19 curve down. Again, if you are unhappy, which you have every right to be, you can withdraw your application. Otherwise, you should be willing to be flexible and adapt to the situation like millions and millions of other people have around the world.

 

[Bishops2020]

Hey! Thanks a lot for your reply!

I have a query please:

I hope you get your approval asap. Best wishes & best of luck to you.

When you get your visa approved finally, will you be allowed to travel? Because I thought approvals after March 18th can only travel when the travel restrictions are lifted? I may be wrong; please correct me. I'm so confused with all this now.

No no-one can yet travel with permits issued after 18th March currently unless they arrive via USA. US nationals ARE being let into Canada without approvals of study permits, as they alone do not need to give biometrics and have been allowed to apply at the border for study permits. It's meant some US nationals without approved permits have travelled, arrived at the border, been charged to apply AGAIN for study permits at the border and allowed entry. that includes students at my daughter's university which is right on the US border, US nationals make up around over 5% of the population there, think a bit more actually. Some are now in quarantine, new first year students.

For the rest of the world, there needs to be a change in rule lifting the 18th March restriction.

 

[GradStudent18]

You're free to tell yourself that you're different, but every school from McGill on down appreciates international students first and foremost for their ability to plug holes in their budgets.

These are trying times for everyone and it is not realistic to expect perfect fairness and consistency. The government has regularly posted updated guidelines on its website, made changes to the application process and PGWP eligibility requirements to benefit students, and yes, given wide discretion to CBSA officers on what constitutes essential travel, so they can accommodate a variety of individual situations.

The end result of this is Canada is keeping the COVID-19 curve down. Again, if you are unhappy, which you have every right to be, you can withdraw your application. Otherwise, you should be willing to be flexible and adapt to the situation like millions and millions of other people have around the world.

Yes of course, accommodating individual situations where the students themselves have said, after entering, that their support letter from the college was fake and that it said "presence is essential & courses in-class" when it was all online actually.


I don't need your patronization and condescending "advice" on asking me to do anything. Nobody needs such insensitive comments when they're going through difficult times. Please don't say anything if you can't be empathetic.


This post was started to discuss how we are all feeling depressed.


We don't deserve to get poked here from people who cannot put themselves in our shoes.


I'll beg your pardon - but I don't think you know whether or not I'm being flexible, or about the kind of adjustments and changes I've been making as an individual. So I'd suggest you not to make such demotivating comments at someone who you know nothing about.


And yeah, I don't plug holes in the budget of the University - I'm not telling this to myself but am, in fact, a valued grad-level candidate who conducts critical research there. You're free to assume that all international students are just cash cows and are equivalent to nothing but money-making machines. Your assumption disparaging the merit and reality of all international students, without accounting for exceptions, is laughable.


Thanks for the conversation.

 

[Bishops2020]

You're free to tell yourself that you're different, but every school from McGill on down appreciates international students first and foremost for their ability to plug holes in their budgets.

These are trying times for everyone and it is not realistic to expect perfect fairness and consistency. The government has regularly posted updated guidelines on its website, made changes to the application process and PGWP eligibility requirements to benefit students, and yes, given wide discretion to CBSA officers on what constitutes essential travel, so they can accommodate a variety of individual situations.

The end result of this is Canada is keeping the COVID-19 curve down. Again, if you are unhappy, which you have every right to be, you can withdraw your application. Otherwise, you should be willing to be flexible and adapt to the situation like millions and millions of other people have around the world.

Regular updates? Maybe yes but not regular updated guidelines, in fact only 1 change in guidelines which was to add on the "essential travel" proof for those with permits already approved before 18th March and 1 assurance that PGWP would take into account online learning but 50% maximum could be online learning, obviously a problem for those on 1 year and 2 year courses.

It's always been the case that immigration (CBSA) officers have ultimate discretion, nothing new. That is not unique to Canada. Compare Ireland, UK, very similar in terms of powers.

 

[GradStudent18]

PGWP exists because if they let go of it, people might not be as interested in the prospects of studying in Canada.

And yes I agree with you that there are TA, RA requirements, additionally they do have scholarships for exceptional students too.

My statement was made more from the end of acknowledging the fact that as a student who has applied for a study permit we have made a significant investment in the country, (Significant for each individual student, and significant for Canada when considering all the students).

With our funds locked up, and no visible prospects of travel to Canada. This seems, Canada needs our money and not us for the time being.

I agree with you. Alas. If only all this had not happened.

 

[primaprime]

Yes of course, accommodating individual situations where the students themselves have said, after entering, that their support letter from the college was fake and that it said "presence is essential & courses in-class" when it was all online actually.


I don't need your patronization and condescending "advice" on asking me to do anything. Nobody needs such insensitive comments when they're going through difficult times. Please don't say anything if you can't be empathetic.


This post was started to discuss how we are all feeling depressed.


We don't deserve to get poked here from people who cannot put themselves in our shoes even if they try.


I wonder for how long Canada can keep the Covid curve down if Canadisns keep making round trips across the world, travelling back & forth. If they can despite all that clearly "non-essential" travel, then awesome!


I'll beg your pardon - but I don't think you know whether or not I'm being flexible, or about the kind of adjustments and changes I've been making as an individual. So I'd suggest you not to make such disparaging comments at someone who you know nothing about.


And yeah, I don't plug holes in the budget of the University - I'm not telling this to myself but am, in fact, a valued grad-level candidate who conducts critical research there. You're free to assume that all international students are just cash cows and are equivalent to nothing but money-making machines. Your assumption disparaging the merit and reality of all international students, without accounting for exceptions, is laughable.


If your view of grad level research & all international students is so limited, I pity you. Thanks for the conversation.

I'm not patronizing you, I'm trying to be realistic about the future instead of just fueling depression and hopelessness.

Canadians are exempt from the travel restrictions because they enter Canada by right. The rest of us are secondary, and I accept that because I was not born here. I myself am currently impacted by the travel restrictions and it is not easy, but I have made my peace with it because it's for the common good.

Meanwhile, you are also assuming I have not been an international student at a top research university, when in fact I have been. I knew why I was there, and it wasn't because the university was running a charity.

 

[Bishops2020]

Canadian nationals and Canadian permanent residents are treated the same.
The rest are those not in those categories.

It's the former who are biggest risk to importing Covid, because their entries and exits cannot be controlled like the rest.

 

[GradStudent18]

I'm not patronizing you, I'm trying to be realistic about the future instead of just fueling depression and hopelessness.

Canadians are exempt from the travel restrictions because they enter Canada by right. The rest of us are secondary, and I accept that because I was not born here. I myself am currently impacted by the travel restrictions and it is not easy, but I have made my peace with it because it's for the common good.

Meanwhile, you are also assuming I have not been an international student at a top research university, when in fact I have been. I knew why I was there, and it wasn't because the university was running a charity.

I respect your view and opinions.


I'm not expecting any charity from the University or from IRCC. Please don't take me otherwise. It's just that a lot of hard-earned opportunities - things that have always been a "dream" for millions in my community from even before I was born - such opportunities in performing research, are all getting spoilt (for lack of a better word) due to what's happening now.


Raj Chetty, economist at Harvard, has talked about the lack of scope in his ancestors' times to even dream, when they were in their erstwhile home country.


It's disappointing. I was expecting they'll at least allow those with a full approval before March 18th to travel, like they'd said earlier till June end.


But then there comes this "essential" condition that effectively bars me from going till I have at least 1 face-to-face class. And my University has only 3 face-to-face classes now - for a 4th year chemistry lab, a sculpture class, and theatre. I see no hope at the moment to be honest. It's difficult with all these things driving us insane.


I realize I may be venting out a little too much.
Please don't mistake me.

 

[GradStudent18]

Hey, i watch your comments as you are very active. It seems like we both have the same concerns and same points too. You could not be more right. I personally have given on any hope by Canada, even though i have a travel Support letter. Just read some Student who travelled earlier was told to come back afterwards, but found out his Counterfoil (TRV sticker on passport) as Invalid a month after he was denied.

I had so much expectations from IRCC that they will be fair and just, atleast to us who didn't choose online classes, but are okay with them if allowed into Canada. But oh well...

Hey! Thanks a lot for your reply and kind words buddy!!!

I feel so grateful and thankful for your support & understanding. I so agree with you....it's been such a difficult time for all of us here

How I wish this had not happened to us. I still hope they make some sort of relaxation for those of us who already have a FULL approval before March 18th !

I am hoping against hope that they'll ultimately understand our situation - those of us who already have a full, valid visa ready.


We shouldn't be treated like those who have just now applied. I hope there's some change at least before November. That way, we will at least be able to travel by late December.

 

[Copingwithlife]

I empathize with people in this thread, but posting here about how unfair things are, or spamming messages on Twitter, does not help.

1. Life is not fair and immigration is not the government's top priority. IRCC is already allowing applicants to begin their programs from outside Canada and still count up to 50% toward a future PGWP. I'd take what I can get.

2. Travel restrictions are widely popular among Canadians; it would be political malpractice to lift them. Americans have it somewhat easier because the Canadian economy depends on America.

3. It has never been a secret that Canadian schools recruit international students for their money. The system is meant to benefit Canada, not you.

4. If you don't want to study in Canada after all, you are always free to stay in your current country or seek opportunities elsewhere. Otherwise, I would suggest you find more productive ways to spend your time.

If I feel I’m not receiving good service at a place I’m giving my money too, I start investigating other places . I don’t go on and on about how bad the service is. It’s not going to change anything. Many students here feel they are receiving poor service and are candidates for many countries they say . Move on

 

[GradStudent18]

If I feel I’m not receiving good service at a place I’m giving my money too, I start investigating other places . I don’t go on and on about how bad the service is. It’s not going to change anything. Many students here feel they are receiving poor service and are candidates for many countries they say . Move on

Honestly, I'm sad to meet with demotivating and insensitive remarks at this low point in life.

This isn't as easy as you are describing.

I'm sorry but I thought this post was meant to express how helpless and depressed we students are and I just did that.

We are definitely not blaming anyone or anything. We look up to IRCC and Canada, and the system which has always been so methodical and fair. There seem to be some loopholes now, and we just want some clarity from them regarding us, for our peace of mind about our studies & lives.

I'm sorry again if I've offended anyone. But please don't bring us down when we're already struggling a lot with what's happening regarding our studies now. Thank you so much.

 

[Bishops2020]

I have to agree, I have never previously found unfairness in IRCC or CBSA or Canada's immigration policies. These are unprecendented
times. I know it would have helped my daughter of course if she as someone with in person courses had had her permit formally approved and she'd been allowed to travel! Or if she'd been told she cannot travel until at least X date. It's been unfair on her university too that has set asside 1/7th of its residence rooms for students to quarantine and all the new students are missing that the university had prepared for.

 

[Alamj]

Honestly, I'm sad to meet with demotivating and insensitive remarks at this low point in life.

This isn't as easy as you are describing.

I'm sorry but I thought this post was meant to express how helpless and depressed we students are and I just did that.

We are definitely not blaming anyone or anything. We look up to IRCC and Canada, and the system which has always been so methodical and fair. There seem to be some loopholes now, and we just want some clarity from them regarding us, for our peace of mind about our studies & lives.

I'm sorry again if I've offended anyone. But please don't bring us down when we're already struggling a lot with what's happening regarding our studies now. Thank you so much.

Each one of us is feeling the same way. As if every restriction has been placed only on me and not the entire student community. The reason for this is majorly the fact that those who studied with us in schools or colleges are already well settled (either in India or abroad) and when we decided a major step, everything seems to be falling apart.

Just know you are not alone! We are in this together! I know our patience has been stretched to limits and it feels so stupid to be stuck, especially when you are aware of your capabilities but can't take on a decision because everything has a minimum time commitment of 1 year.

Please stay strong.

 

[GradStudent18]

I have to agree, I have never previously found unfairness in IRCC or CBSA or Canada's immigration policies. These are unprecendented
times. I know it would have helped my daughter of course if she as someone with in person courses had had her permit formally approved and she'd been allowed to travel! Or if she'd been told she cannot travel until at least X date. It's been unfair on her university too that has set asside 1/7th of its residence rooms for students to quarantine and all the new students are missing that the university had prepared for.

I really hope they'll give some clarify for students as soon as possible.

Nobody is asking them to reopen their borders for us now - all we want is more information, and advice from their end about our lives & studies. If they won't allow us until 2023, then please tell us so. That is all.