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IRCC is asking for a boarding pass

hassan09

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I am waiting for my oath ceremony while being abroad.
IRCC has send me this e mail

Hello,



Thank you for updating us of your arrival back into Canada. Can you please provide us supporting

documentation of your (and your families) arrival back into Canada, such as flight itinerary or a picture

of the boarding pass(es). Once we have that documentation, we will mark you as being available for

ceremony and we will schedule you for your ceremony some time in the future.



Thanks,



IRCC Official AR

, Citizenship
Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada / Government of Canada


What do they need it? I would like to fly only for the ceremony? Is there a way go around it?
Well, I would book tentatively a week trip here and ask IRCC to schedule during this period, you'll only confirm trip once you receive invitation for oath.
 

iceman55

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May 1, 2022
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Thank you for the reply.

The question is how do they know that you have returned? They ask you if you are outside Canada, but they don’t follow-up to see if you are back and then presumably place your application on hold on their own timeline. Seems a bit odd.

I will probably email the Scarborough office and let them know I plan to return upon request, but I am worried that that may cause other problems. I have to consult an immigration lawyer.
Yes, there seems to be some disconnect in this process as I'd mentioned before with someone else's experience. Even when you return it's up to you to follow up and make sure your application is being processed. But it's also important to not think too much. If they say they want to schedule, imo they mean it.

Speaking generally, there are folks in this forum that think too much like IRCC is acting with bad intent when it comes to backlog etc but there are also a decent number of people that followed up promptly and got results. If you question the intent too much, you can not take the right steps. I'm sure there are a small per cent of folks in IRCC misusing these processes with bad intent/making up rules on the go etc - like in every large organization in every corner of the world - but I've had enough conversations with bureaucrats here to understand most are just as eager to close your file and move on to the next just as you are. So it's important to not think too much and just communicate your situation clearly.

For example, you can respond by saying you're available at any time of their convenience and with short notice or xx weeks notice etc. The other suggestion to book a ticket and let IRCC know you're willing to travel based on their scheduling etc also seems good. I have no opinion on hiring an attorney but the benefits are unclear to me.
 
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softwaretesting

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My agent told me I can take oath outside as long as I have doctor's notes. I guess it depends on the office. Which office is yours?
Will they ask you to cut PR card if you take oath from outside Canada? & If so, how will we return back?
 

Dreamlad

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Will they ask you to cut PR card if you take oath from outside Canada? & If so, how will we return back?
You apply for passport via a Canadian embassy. As for me, I have US B2 visa so I can land in Detroit and cross Windsor border using citizenship certificate.
BTW, what software tester are you?
 
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rahul00

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Jul 26, 2009
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Did you tell them that you were already in Canada while you were abroad? And they checked to make sure?

I think Xavier3000 is still outside Canada
 

Dreamlad

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Did you tell them that you were already in Canada while you were abroad? And they checked to make sure?

I think Xavier3000 is still outside Canada
Maybe he lied about it? I'm confused by his post.
 

wksj

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Oct 7, 2021
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why is the boarding pass so important to them. IRCC is checking with the Air Canada if someone has landed in Canada by PNR number on the ticket?
What kind of a question is this? They are asking you to provide some kind of proof instead of taking your word for it which in this case seems to be very much warranted.
 
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Dalboy1980

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What kind of a question is this? They are asking you to provide some kind of proof instead of taking your word for it which in this case seems to be very much warranted.
Absolutely agree.....look your choice is ask to delay or come back and provide proof.....they can ask whatever they want in theory because they want to prove beyond reasonable doubt that you're not scamming the system in some way.
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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LENGTHY Observations with Explanations For Those Interested in How Things Work:
(many if not most will want to skip . . . scroll on by)

I am waiting for my oath ceremony while being abroad.
IRCC has send me [an e mail acknowledging] updating us of your arrival back into Canada and [requesting documentation of return to Canada]
What do they need it? I would like to fly only for the ceremony? Is there a way go around it?
why is the boarding pass so important to them. IRCC is checking with the Air Canada if someone has landed in Canada by PNR number on the ticket?
In general, IRCC can make inquiry to verify any information provided to IRCC attendant an adult grant citizenship application. They do not need a reason.

The scope of information IRCC can request is very broad, and generally no particular reason for it is needed, their discretion only limited by the scope of action they can take if the applicant declines or fails to provide the requested information. Other than (honestly) responding with the information, or a request that IRCC proceed without the information (and waiting to see how that goes), an applicant's recourse is mandamus.

Should not need saying, but obviously the applicant should ONLY submit truthful, in no way misleading, and not overtly evasive information in response to IRCC's requests.

IRCC can engage in investigations or make referrals for investigation, and that can be extensive and intensive, and thus contrary to some suggestions, yes that may go so far as to cross-check particular details in regards to arrival in Canada from abroad, including flight details for example. (Will address further in a separate post.) However, this would be unusual, and not likely attendant a local office's efforts to merely verify a grant citizenship applicant's availability to participate in an oath ceremony in Canada. Leading to . . .

Comments by some other forum participants appear to infer you made a misrepresentation to IRCC about returning to Canada; I assume that inference (by those forum participants) is based on the apparent inconsistency between your indication that you are currently abroad ("I am waiting for my oath ceremony while being abroad") and the statement in the email indicating you have updated IRCC as to "your arrival back into Canada."

It is not clear that is the situation. Indeed, since IRCC so extensively employs templates with boilerplate in their communications, it is just as probable (though you know which it is) that you have advised IRCC of a prospective (planned or future) date for returning to Canada, and this is a request to verify that information.

MAKES a BIG DIFFERENCE. You know which it is. That is, you know whether you have advised IRCC you are currently IN Canada, and this email is requesting documentation to verify that, OR whether you have advised IRCC of your planned return to Canada and before scheduling the oath they have requested documentation to corroborate that.

While IRCC does not need a reason to make inquiry to verify information an applicant has provided, and the "why" typically does not matter, here the "why" might matter, depending on whether the context for this request is about a potential misrepresentation or simply to verify when you will be available to participate in an oath ceremony IN Canada.

If the latter, just to verify when you will be available to participate in an oath ceremony IN Canada, then as has been suggested there is no reason to overthink things, just be sure to respond to the email and clearly state your situation (truthfully of course). If necessary this can include a *clarification* that you are currently outside Canada, and if applicable (as applicable) you can state either your future travel plans or state that future travel plans are indefinite but you will return to Canada in time to attend an oath ceremony at any time . . . or something to that effect, DEPENDING on your actual situation.

Side note: should be obvious, but NOT a good idea to give IRCC misleading information let alone make any outright misrepresentations. Even if a misrepresentation is not material (such as information about manner and means of returning to Canada outside relevant eligibility period), and therefore is not a stand alone ground for denying the application, just being suspected of being misleading let alone misrepresenting (otherwise known as engaging in fraud) can have a severely deleterious effect on a citizenship application. Other than the two overriding elements in processing citizenship applications (one, in-fact meeting of requirement, and two, properly providing information in application and follow-up), the next most important element in how it goes is the applicant's credibility, and a lot of that is affected by impression. Once officials get the impression the applicant MAY be deceptive (not necessarily is but might be), things can go seriously sideways.


"I would like to fly only for the ceremony? Is there a way go around it?"

It is not clear just what it is you want to "go around."

Contrary to what is largely wishful thinking (quite likely fantasy), there is no more than an extremely unlikely possibility for taking the oath outside Canada. Might as well take that route off the table.

So you need to be prepared to return to Canada for the oath.

Moreover, your local office is also requiring you to present documentation to verify availability to take the oath IN Canada. (Or, perhaps, at least that you WILL BE available.)

If in your particular case IRCC will not proceed with scheduling the oath until it is verified you are physically IN Canada, the more secure and faster path to being scheduled for the oath is to actually return to Canada. No need to submit boarding pass and such; you can submit other "documentation" to verify you are present in Canada. Letter from employer, record of doctor's visit, just about any sort of record that shows where you are on a RECENT date certain, and that your location is in Canada. However, there is no guarantee how soon IRCC will actually schedule the oath; this VARIES and appears to vary by a lot.

As previously noted, you could respond to that request by clarifying you are outside Canada and requesting that IRCC proceed to schedule you for the oath, affirming that you will return to Canada in time to attend an oath ceremony IN Canada.

If in your particular case what IRCC wants is to verify that you actually have a concrete plan to return to Canada by a particular date, as evidenced by documentation such as airline tickets, so that it can schedule the oath following that, here too you can do that, as requested; however, here too there is no guarantee how soon after your arrival date the oath will be scheduled. And here too you could respond to this request by clarifying you are outside Canada and requesting that IRCC proceed to schedule you for the oath, affirming that you will return to Canada in time to attend an oath ceremony IN Canada.

And then WAIT to see how it goes, what happens.

MANDAMUS: This would be a last-resort approach, require the assistance of a qualified lawyer, not be easy to arrange while still abroad, and could be quite expensive. And there is no guarantee it will work. That said, if in fact the only thing obstructing the scheduling of the oath (such as where grant has been approved and there are no conditional verifications outstanding, like physical presence) is verification of availability to participate in an oath ceremony IN Canada, there should be good odds that just a demand letter from a licensed attorney (requesting oath be scheduled with assurance applicant will attend IN Canada) is sufficient to trigger scheduling the oath; caveat is that I am not certain of this, and in any event it is very much contingent on IRCC having no other outstanding questions, especially none in regards to verifying physical presence.
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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Observations About the Variables:

The anecdotal reporting shows significant variability in procedures for scheduling the oath when an applicant is known to be abroad or perceived to be abroad. Reported scenarios range from --
-- applicants simply getting notice of the oath being scheduled (so the challenge then is for the applicant to travel to Canada in time for that scheduled oath, or take the risks attendant asking to reschedule the oath),​
-- to applicants receiving a variety of notices or requests, most typically oriented to verifying WHEN the applicant will be available to participate in an oath ceremony IN Canada.​

For applicants known to be abroad, or perceived to be abroad, it appears the practice in different local offices varies. Some require more information, and some others more extensive documentation, to verify the applicant is either IN Canada or will be returning to Canada. HOWEVER, since the reporting about related scenarios, oriented to applicants outside Canada for extended periods of time after applying, is at best sporadic, and the particular situations so variable, the different practices MIGHT depend more on the individual's personal situation.

For sure: the nature and scope of questions, concerns, doubts, or outright suspicions, regarding citizenship applicants, VARY greatly FROM PERSON to PERSON. This is true for ALL applicants. (For the majority of qualified applicants, including many of those outside Canada after applying, questions beyond those routinely asked are generally minimal or none.)

While many express strong disagreement with me about this, it is apparent such variability is even more pronounced among applicants known or perceived to currently be abroad for extended periods of time. What this means shouldn't be controversial; simply a recognition there is a wide range of additional factors that can affect IRCC's approach, ranging from --
-- almost no difference related to the absence from Canada​
-- to various degrees of additional scrutiny, and potentially non-routine processing.​

That subject has been addressed at length and in-depth (challenged at length but without much depth) in many other discussions. The long and short of it is that such applicants may be subject to further inquiry and processing, which will be commensurate with the degree of concern or suspicion IRCC has in regards to the individual applicant.

Impact For @Xavier3000

How this affects a particular applicant, such as @Xavier3000, is complicated and to a large extent speculative. It is one thing to recognize the range of how things can go. Quite another to forecast how it will go for any particular individual. The factors which influence how it goes are many, interactive, and typically include conditional and contingent elements.

There is a very good chance that, as the email specifically states, the local office's request is about verifying availability to participate in an oath ceremony in Canada. No need to overthink the situation. @Xavier3000 can respond clarifying current location is outside Canada and otherwise respond as I discussed in my previous post. Obviously, it is likely that things will go better and faster if @Xavier3000 returns to Canada and verifies that with IRCC, but @Xavier3000 can request IRCC to proceed otherwise (as previously described).

There is some chance that reference to scheduling the oath is template-boilerplate, and there are outstanding questions to be addressed before @Xavier3000 is scheduled for the oath. If, for example, the situation is that @Xavier3000 has informed IRCC of a return to Canada, and this email from IRCC was triggered by a concern that is NOT accurate, there is at least an unsettling prospect that IRCC officials could be poised to probe deeper. As I have made a concerted effort to illuminate in many discussions, the nature and scope of further processing can be significantly influenced, in a negative way, if and when IRCC officials get the impression the applicant has been deceptive. Here again this is true for ALL applicants, and almost certainly more so for applicants known to currently be outside Canada for an extended period of time.

Best approach for @Xavier3000 is still to be sure to communicate with IRCC and clarify information, making sure the information provided to IRCC is accurate and in no way misleading.

That said, this forum is permeated by questions about the extent to which IRCC can verify information or the scope of IRCC's efforts to verify information. Bringing up . . .

I know that in the past IRCC didn't really have access to individuals exit and entry data, but I remember reading somewhere that towards the end of 2019 (2020?) they managed to integrate some of the systems with CBP. I could be remembering wrong though.
Hey mate, there seems to be a typo in your post above, Do you mean CBP or CBSA ?
I will not second-guess the clarification by @smash1984, that CBSA rather than CBP, was intended. But over the course of the last several years, IRCC access to BOTH entry and exit information for clients has been extensively enhanced through data-management systems coordinating data between CBSA and U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP). It warrants noting, nonetheless, that CBSA has been maintaining a travel history of most clients' entry dates for at least two decades, and IRCC and before that CIC have long had various types of access to this information.

Among the more significant changes is the increased capture and storage of exit information, and the extent to which coordination with U.S. CBP facilitates CBSA, and indirectly IRCC, access to this information for most Canadian IRCC clients.

The extent of access to the information in the particular case varies and is subject to regulations and restrictions governed by the Privacy Act. Some changes have expanded IRCC's more or less direct access. But there have almost always been for-cause procedures pursuant to which one agency (like CIC/IRCC) can obtain certain private information stored by another (like CBSA) without the client's permission.

For a long time CIC/IRCC asked applicants to give permission to access the individual's CBSA travel history; the application version CIT 0002 (06-2018), for example, included question 14.b) where the applicant's consent was requested. The privacy restrictions at that time limited BUT did not preclude access without consent, and thus even if the applicant did not give consent, IRCC could nonetheless later obtain access to the CBSA travel history, but that would need to meet for-cause requirements. EVEN NOW not just any IRCC official handling some aspect of the citizenship application can access the applicant's CBSA travel history. There is still a "need to see" level of for-cause requirement. But changes to the particular regulations and rules governing privacy, generally, and CBSA and IRCC in particular, have significantly lowered the procedural limitations, effectively expanding IRCC's access.

Looping Back to @Xavier3000 Scenario:

So, regardless of the particular means in which IRCC might verify the applicant's actual arrival in Canada, there is no doubt, IRCC can readily and fairly easily corroborate and thereby verify if a citizenship applicant has in fact returned to Canada. Claiming to return when one has not actually done so would be, well, rather foolish. Fudging information about being abroad is one thing (scores of applicants have successfully masked being abroad by maintaining a Canadian residential address, typically using the address of family or friend). Making an overt and so easily found-out misrepresentation, not just a bad idea (any playing games or fudging is a bad idea), but just plain foolish.

If that is what @Xavier3000 did, probably no need to worry let alone panic. But clarifying/correcting the information sooner rather than later would be a good idea. No need to elaborate. Just something along the lines: to clarify, notwithstanding previous plans, I am not currently in Canada. I plan to travel to Canada XXXX (or state plans are indefinite and request scheduling oath anyway, or such). And whatever is said, be HONEST.


REMINDER Re CBSA Travel History; Distinction Between Accuracy and Completeness:

The CBSA travel history is almost always accurate (and any inaccuracies typically minimal). That does NOT mean it is necessarily COMPLETE. Even though in the last many years the CBSA travel history has been very near complete as to ENTRY dates for most PRs, remember that IRCC does NOT rely on the CBSA entry date data to be complete. This is another subject addressed at length and in-depth in other topics, and one in regards to which many forum participants are adamant IRCC policy and practice should be otherwise. Long and short of this subject for purposes of this topic, is that IRCC looks at CBSA travel history information to cross-check the completeness and accuracy of what the citizenship applicant submits; it is almost exclusively a verification check, to assess whether it indicates any reason to question the veracity of the applicant's information.
 

Xavier3000

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May 22, 2022
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I have clarify with IRCC that I am outside Canada and kindly request to schedule the oath.

This is the respond:

We cannot schedule you into ceremony until you are in Canada and we have proof of return to Canada. You will need to email us when you are back in Canada with proof of return (example: passport stamp, boarding pass). At that point you and your family will be put into the ceremony available list and scheduled at an as yet undetermined date.
 
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Dreamlad

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I have clarify with IRCC that I am outside Canada and kindly request to schedule the oath.

This is the respond:

We cannot schedule you into ceremony until you are in Canada and we have proof of return to Canada. You will need to email us when you are back in Canada with proof of return (example: passport stamp, boarding pass). At that point you and your family will be put into the ceremony available list and scheduled at an as yet undetermined date.
Which office is this? They shouldn't put you on hold.
 
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