International Mobility Program: Employer Compliance System and New Fees

[Mbgirlfriend]

@ MBgirlfriend, to clarify:
1. Does your BF have a letter of nomination/letter of approval?
2. If he has, has he filed a PR application to CIO?
3. Does he have an offer of employment/job offer letter/contract?

.../atb

1. Yes
2. Yes, but no AOR yet (sent in application mid January)
3. He has a letter from his eployer

I have looked into this so I know that for some provinces the nomination letter is enough to apply with his LOE on line however for others such as Manitoba a support letter is also necessary. I am not sure if it was this forum or another one where someone was decline for not having it

 

[greenlemon]

@fistillarte thanks for the confirmation. I am an AINP nominee too... I will be crossing the border this Tuesday. However, I have paid my application online, since I'm planning to submit my application online before but with this update in the extension policy I changed my mind. Will they accept the online receipt as payment or I need pay again there?

 

[fistillarte]

You'll probably have to pay again, and then withdraw the online application.

@ fistillarte thanks for the confirmation. I am an AINP nominee too... I will be crossing the border this Tuesday. However, I have paid my application online, since I'm planning to submit my application online before but with this update in the extension policy I changed my mind. Will they accept the online receipt as payment or I need pay again there?

 

[Mbgirlfriend]

New notice -
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/notices/2015-02-09.asp

For those who have been nominated, this will impact those:
- applying for employer-specific WPs (so-called "closed" WPs) and are LMIA-exempt (those applying with a nomination certificate/and or letter of support, in lieu of an LMIA)
- those with an a PR application already underway and applying for open work permits to allow them to wait the completion of their application

...another hurdle for those applying for WPs/OWPs after getting nominations.

So does this mean that as long as someone applies on line before that date they will be fine even if they don't process it until after 21st?

I think my bf is gonna try to apply on line even without the support letter from the province. We think he will have a better chance than at the border because if the letter is necessary (still unclear but the people at MPNP say it is) the CIC agent at a Manitoba border will be more aware of this being a requirement because he likely only deals with PNP nominations from Manitoba. A CIC agent that looks at all kinds of applications is more likely to assume all provinces just need the PNP certificate.

If that is declined we will hope for him to get AOR before his current WP expires. At least with the AOR its an open WP so he doesn't have worry about the $220 employer fee. His bosses boss has already said they can't pay it. He works for such a big place that any person who could approve paying this fee is so far removed from knowing or caring about one employee in one small part of the organization. And because there is a policy and procedure on everything and there would not be one on this nobody even knows how and who specifically to ask about this.

If no AOR then he has to leave his employer with short notice (he will feel bad about this) and hope he doesn't loose nomination and then try to find another job when he does get AOR.

I don't know how they can think this won't have a negative impact on employers. Employers either have to shell out money or loose and employee that they have trained (that sounds like blackmail). Big companies or organizations that have policies on every thing do not have the time to make any kind of adjustments to policies before some employees will have their WP expire. Thus forcing those type of places to have to hire and train someone new (this is a big expense).

I just don't think this is fair, especially on extensions.

 

[ragluf]

1. Yes
2. Yes, but no AOR yet (sent in application mid January)
3. He has a letter from his eployer

I have looked into this so I know that for some provinces the nomination letter is enough to apply with his LOE on line however for others such as Manitoba a support letter is also necessary. I am not sure if it was this forum or another one where someone was decline for not having it

Better make sure about #3 - it should be seen as a formal job offer/letter

Aside from that - then your BF's current tack should fall under this:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/temp/work/opinion/territories-provinces.asp

Foreign workers nominated by a province or territory

A person who has a valid nomination from a province or territory for permanent residence and is employed or has a job offer from an employer based in that province may be issued a work permit without requiring an LMIA.

In order for this provision to be applied, the application for the work permit must include:

- the job offer or employment contract;
- a copy of the nomination letter from the provincial or territorial government that confirms that the foreign national has been nominated for permanent residence by the province,
if the nomination is expired, a copy of the acknowledgement letter confirming that CIC received the PNP application while the nomination was still valid; and
- a statement from the province that it has determined that all factors required for the issuance of a work permit under paragraph 204(c) as per its agreement with Canada have been met, and identifying the occupation and employer information. The required factors include:
- that the nominated individual is urgently required by the provincial-based employer who has made the foreign national a job offer in that province or territory (it should be noted that self-employed persons are therefore not eligible for this type of work permit given the lack of employer-employee relationship),
- that the job offer is genuine and the job offer will create economic benefits or opportunities,
- that the employment is not part-time or seasonal, and
- that the wages and working conditions of the employment would be sufficient to attract and retain Canadian citizens.

The 3rd requirement - the statement - is one that your BF needs in order to apply for an LMIA-exempt WP. This requirement varies from province to province based on their provincial/territorial agreement. In many cases it comes in the form of a work support letter issued by the provincial nomination program, in other cases (as governed by the provincial/territorial agreements) the nomination certificate is enough: there may be details already in the nomination certificate that clearly show the 3rd requirement, so there is no need for the work support letter.

The problem is getting this out of your PNP (MPNP?). I have seen the issuance of this letter much more prevalent with employer-driven streams, one in which there is employer "sponsorship". In some cases, it is as part of the application for nomination; in the application forms there is a section to request one (do you need a work support letter?); in some PNP application forms, there is no section to ask for one.

Nevertheless, if he is under MPNP, then I'd suggest:
- First get a letter of recommendation and request from his employer (addressed to MPNP) - stating along the lines of the "statement" (as above):
- that he is urgently required by the provincial-based employer (and is a valued employee)
- that they have future plans for him within the organization and would like to retain him
- that they (the employer) has provided him with a job offer that is genuine, permanent, full-time, and the wages and working conditions are up to standards set by the province labor board
- and that they (his employer) is requesting MPNP to issue a statement (as above) or a letter of support for him

- Then he goes back to MPNP and provides them the letter of request/recommendation from the employer
- And he asks specifically for issuance of:
a) either a work support letter (if not already asked, but he can ask again based on the request from his employer (w/c is indirectly showing employer support)
b) OR ask for this "statement" (inclusive of what has been described above in what ever form it is) You can show them the webpage reference.

I perused the MPNP PNP requirements and FAQs before, and I vaguely recall that they stated there to contact them if a WP extension needs to be done by an applicant already in the country. Just to make sure, he has to coordinate and specifically state what he needs from MPNP. If this particular tack was not tried before - with reference to the contents of the 3rd requirement, then it may be something that can be tried.

.../good luck and all the best

 

[Mbgirlfriend]

Better make sure about #3 - it should be seen as a formal job offer/letter

Aside from that - then your BF's current tack should fall under this:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/temp/work/opinion/territories-provinces.asp

Foreign workers nominated by a province or territory

A person who has a valid nomination from a province or territory for permanent residence and is employed or has a job offer from an employer based in that province may be issued a work permit without requiring an LMIA.

In order for this provision to be applied, the application for the work permit must include:

- the job offer or employment contract;
- a copy of the nomination letter from the provincial or territorial government that confirms that the foreign national has been nominated for permanent residence by the province,
if the nomination is expired, a copy of the acknowledgement letter confirming that CIC received the PNP application while the nomination was still valid; and
- a statement from the province that it has determined that all factors required for the issuance of a work permit under paragraph 204(c) as per its agreement with Canada have been met, and identifying the occupation and employer information. The required factors include:
- that the nominated individual is urgently required by the provincial-based employer who has made the foreign national a job offer in that province or territory (it should be noted that self-employed persons are therefore not eligible for this type of work permit given the lack of employer-employee relationship),
- that the job offer is genuine and the job offer will create economic benefits or opportunities,
- that the employment is not part-time or seasonal, and
- that the wages and working conditions of the employment would be sufficient to attract and retain Canadian citizens.

The 3rd requirement - the statement - is one that your BF needs in order to apply for an LMIA-exempt WP. This requirement varies from province to province based on their provincial/territorial agreement. In many cases it comes in the form of a work support letter issued by the provincial nomination program, in other cases (as governed by the provincial/territorial agreements) the nomination certificate is enough: there may be details already in the nomination certificate that clearly show the 3rd requirement, so there is no need for the work support letter.

The problem is getting this out of your PNP (MPNP?). I have seen the issuance of this letter much more prevalent with employer-driven streams, one in which there is employer "sponsorship". In some cases, it is as part of the application for nomination; in the application forms there is a section to request one (do you need a work support letter?); in some PNP application forms, there is no section to ask for one.

Nevertheless, if he is under MPNP, then I'd suggest:
- First get a letter of recommendation and request from his employer (addressed to MPNP) - stating along the lines of the "statement" (as above):
- that he is urgently required by the provincial-based employer (and is a valued employee)
- that they have future plans for him within the organization and would like to retain him
- that they (the employer) has provided him with a job offer that is genuine, permanent, full-time, and the wages and working conditions are up to standards set by the province labor board
- and that they (his employer) is requesting MPNP to issue a statement (as above) or a letter of support for him

- Then he goes back to MPNP and provides them the letter of request/recommendation from the employer
- And he asks specifically for issuance of:
a) either a work support letter (if not already asked, but he can ask again based on the request from his employer (w/c is indirectly showing employer support)
b) OR ask for this "statement" (inclusive of what has been described above in what ever form it is) You can show them the webpage reference.

I perused the MPNP PNP requirements and FAQs before, and I vaguely recall that they stated there to contact them if a WP extension needs to be done by an applicant already in the country. Just to make sure, he has to coordinate and specifically state what he needs from MPNP. If this particular tack was not tried before - with reference to the contents of the 3rd requirement, then it may be something that can be tried.

.../good luck and all the best

I do appreciate you trying to help but I am afraid I have also already looked into all this along time ago and we are aware of what is needed. The problem for us is the timing. PNP won''t even talk about issuing support letter until the persons WP is 3 months away from expiring. We actually had already got thing started on getting my bfs LOE and talking to MPNP about the support letter last week before this change was even posted. This was the earliest we could request the support letter (3 months before his current WP is done) but due to the time it will take for him to get the support letter and the short notice about the change he likely won't have the support letter on time. So he may just have to hope for the best and apply with what he has and hope that they will consider the other documentation as enough to get him a WP

The support letter is not something they just hand out, there is a bit more to it than I think you are aware of. One thing the MPNP has to do first is get the employer to resister the foreign worker with Employment Standards. Employment Standards send a number to the MPNP office and then MPNP can issue a Support Letter. My bf's boss did send in the Paper Work to Employment Standards this week but the problem is that it usually take 5-10 business days for Employment Standards to do their part and then send a registration number to MPNP. So most likely MPNP office won't even get the number from Employment Standards before the 21st. Then because they don't seem to understand this new rule and that it will apply to my bf they don't see the need to rush on getting him the letter until his WP is closer to expire. We went down there yesterday to talk to someone directly to see if there was anyway to speed things up because his boss can not pay that fee but they didn't understand anything about this new fee and thus don't see the need for the rush.

 

[Phil89]

I do appreciate you trying to help but I am afraid I have also already looked into all this along time ago and we are aware of what is needed. The problem for us is the timing. PNP won''t even talk about issuing support letter until the persons WP is 3 months away from expiring. We actually had already got thing started on getting my bfs LOE and talking to MPNP about the support letter last week before this change was even posted. This was the earliest we could request the support letter (3 months before his current WP is done) but due to the time it will take for him to get the support letter and the short notice about the change he likely won't have the support letter on time. So he may just have to hope for the best and apply with what he has and hope that they will consider the other documentation as enough to get him a WP

The support letter is not something they just hand out, there is a bit more to it than I think you are aware of. One thing the MPNP has to do first is get the employer to resister the foreign worker with Employment Standards. Employment Standards send a number to the MPNP office and then MPNP can issue a Support Letter. My bf's boss did send in the Paper Work to Employment Standards this week but the problem is that it usually take 5-10 business days for Employment Standards to do their part and then send a registration number to MPNP. So most likely MPNP office won't even get the number from Employment Standards before the 21st. Then because they don't seem to understand this new rule and that it will apply to my bf they don't see the need to rush on getting him the letter until his WP is closer to expire. We went down there yesterday to talk to someone directly to see if there was anyway to speed things up because his boss can not pay that fee but they didn't understand anything about this new fee and thus don't see the need for the rush.

Sorry I don't have time to read all this, but why don't you just drive to the border with your nomination certificate and job offer?? You should get a closed WP. if for some reason it doesn't work out, apply online before Feb 21st. Why so much stress..

 

[fistillarte]

I keep saying that. Border IS THE BEST SCENARIO. Because even if they don't give you the work permit, you still can go and apply online!

What's the bad part about trying at the border? Losing gas? Don't see a reason not to try that option.

 

[liisa227]

I keep saying that. Border IS THE BEST SCENARIO. Because even if they don't give you the work permit, you still can go and apply online!

What's the bad part about trying at the border? Losing gas? Don't see a reason not to try that option.

I agree. At the border you're at least talking to a live human being, who you can ask questions and explain things on the spot. With a remote case officer you're left at the mercy of their interpretation of what's needed and just. And if they end up rejecting his WP at the border, then he still has plenty of time left in his current permit to figure out what to do, look at other employers etc. I would assume that since his nomination is not tied to his current employer as such, but in the fact that he's been working for 6 months (if I understood correctly), it would be OK for him to at least try to find other equivalent employment to maintain his nomination. Or at least until he gets his AOR, in which case he should be eligible for BOWP (someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not 100% educated on BOWPs).

Also, someone posted this on another thread http://www.thestar.com/news/immigration/2015/01/05/high_error_rate_found_in_canadas_immigration_processing.html. It paints a pretty gruesome picture of how CIC processing is done, with an astounding rate of error (up to 23% in 2013 CEC cases) and with unqualified students with three days of on-site training deciding our fate. But I digress..

I'm really sorry to hear though, that your boyfriend's company is not willing to pay for the fees. I understand that that's how it can go with bigger companies where there's a gazillion levels of management and one person can and will get lost in the cracks. And I'm sorry that the people at the MPNP office clearly hadn't seen this bulletin and had no idea how it would impact you guys. People unfortunately tend to get on the offensive if they feel like their authority is being questioned.

 

[ragluf]

I do appreciate you trying to help but I am afraid I have also already looked into all this along time ago and we are aware of what is needed.

Unfortunately, (as I have gone through the LMIA-exempt process for a WP and also the border renewal) - what I see here is you started this WP process from the bottom up. This is why time is not on your side. See my next response.

The support letter is not something they just hand out, there is a bit more to it than I think you are aware of. One thing the MPNP has to do first is get the employer to resister the foreign worker with Employment Standards. Employment Standards send a number to the MPNP office and then MPNP can issue a Support Letter. My bf's boss did send in the Paper Work to Employment Standards this week but the problem is that it usually take 5-10 business days for Employment Standards to do their part and then send a registration number to MPNP. So most likely MPNP office won't even get the number from Employment Standards before the 21st.

I understand that - because I came from the LMIA-exempt WP stream - and one of the first-things my employer did was to file paper work/registration to get an opinion from HRSDC that the application can be done with an LMIA exemption. This paper work and registration would have been submitted before hand IF your BF was nominated under an employer-driven stream with employer support. This would have been taken care of by the added documentation/and forms from the employer that is submitted as part of the application for nomination. If all of these have been done, the conditions for requesting and obtaining a work support letter are there - and it would have been easy for MPNP to grant such a request.

Unfortunately, as also seen in one of your posts, you mentioned your BF obtained his nomination not under any employer-driven stream, and with no employer support. So the requisites for registering the foreign worker are not there - no prior paperwork from the employer. So there really is no expectation of getting any work support letter here even with time given - and I can understand why you are not getting any action from MPNP. Only now is his employer giving the documentation - but it is at the tail-end of the process. Instead of a linear progression of the steps in the process, it is a retrofitting of conditions based on the desired result - a WP under LMIA-exemptions.

You have better odds now trying to get a WP at the border. I have done that in my WP extension twice - and it is not a 100% guarantee you will be issued one. There are entry conditions that conflict with each other (i.e. visa-exempt vs no visa required if coming back from the US etc.) that CBSA officers have liberty to apply and in some cases (which happened to me once) - you get a denial of WP but will be allowed entry.

Good luck to you and all the best....

../atb

======
Now can we please stick to the thread topic?

 

[Mbgirlfriend]

I keep saying that. Border IS THE BEST SCENARIO. Because even if they don't give you the work permit, you still can go and apply online!

What's the bad part about trying at the border? Losing gas? Don't see a reason not to try that option.

I think what scares me is that for some reason they won't let him back in the country if they deny him the WP. And i just think they will expect the support letter because they would be familiar with this kind of WP.

I suppose its worth a try.

 

[fistillarte]

I think what scares me is that for some reason they won't let him back in the country if they deny him the WP. And i just think they will expect the support letter because they would be familiar with this kind of WP.

I suppose its worth a try.

They won't. I'm a bit scared about that as well, but I still have a valid work permit till the 25th, so I can say "ok, I'll go back to work for my last days" or something like that. I'm travelling tomorrow and coming back on Sunday now, sooo we'll see.

Regarding the Visa-except country rule, I read in another post that is not necessarily like that; if you have a valid worker visa you can also do it, so again, we'll see. :/

 

[NAMO2014]

Hi all,

I have my MPNP Nomination and I just got Job offer I am from out side canada and I want to apply workpermit, Do I need workpermit support letter from MPNP or I can apply with nomination and job offer? Please help
Thanks,

 

[greenlemon]

@fistillarte, we will appreciate if you will update us... thanks

 

[fistillarte]

@ fistillarte, we will appreciate if you will update us... thanks

Hi !! Well, it's done! I went to the US on Saturday, stayed for a night and went back on Sunday trough roosville border crossing. Officers were really nice, alotugh they weren't exactly sure on how to deal with it, and had to check a couple things on internet. Me and my wife stayed for an hour and a half because of that, since I don't have the Aor so they didn't know if my wife had applied already. But they were really good with us, and even said I was smart by doing that instead of waiting.

The checked the documents that I had, didn't ask for any "support letter" (and that border is not even in alberta, but bc), and my wife (who had until now a study permit) got an open work permit.

For me, well.......... I GOT AN OPEN WORK PERMIT AS WELL !!!! Ask me how.... They told me at first "yeah it's gonna have to be a closed one", they checked the nominations which said I had no restrictions, then said that I didn't had the AOR meaning no BOWP for me, and then went back and forth 20 times about it. At the end, open work permit for me valid for one year

As I said many times, to everyone, just go to the border. Is was easier when you can actually talk with somebody, explain your situation and actually talk with a human being, rather than filling confusing and contradictory forms.