Inland vs. Outland - Ecuador (Overstay)

[atlantic]

Hi,
I've been reading this forum for a while and wanted to seek input from this group on some spousal immigration questions I'm dealing with. Here is the story...

My boyfriend is from Ecuador. He came to Canada on a visitor's visa almost 6 years ago and decided not to leave (the visa was not renewed or extended at any time). We met 10 months ago and are planning to get married in September 2015. We've also been living together for the past 3 months. We are planning to send in a spousal application once we're married. We also want to start a family and while I have a very solid job, I'm uncertain about the financial or other issues we may face once we have a child as he is not able to work legally. I should also mention that he's in his late 20's and I'm in my late 30's.

1. My first question is whether we should apply inland vs. outland given the difference in processing time between the two approaches. Are there any other factors we should take into consideration?
2. If he leaves Canada and we try to apply outland, will we need to admit how long he's been in Canada without a valid visa? I'm assuming so, but then will that hurt the chances of the application being approved?
3. Should we mention in the application that he's been working while in Canada? I want to be transparent in the application but I've heard conflicting information on whether or not working here without a valid permit is considered detrimental. On the flip side, will immigration officials believe that he's been here and not worked for that whole time?
4. Is it advisable to use a lawyer in our case?

We are very happy together and want to start planning for the immigration process as soon as we can. I appreciate any feedback you can provide.

Thank you!

 

[Ponga]

Re: Inland vs. Outland - Ecuador

First of all...it's nobody's place to judge your boyfriend, but...he's in a bit of a bind.

1. The choice between Inland and Outland is usually an easy one, but since he has been in Canada without valid status for ~ 5 years (+/-), I'd suggest he file an Outland application. If he still had legal status, he would have qualified for an Open Work Permit (with an Inland application) about 4 months after his application was received. Now that he's out of status...it's possible that he could be removed from Canada, which would kill an Inland application. Even with an Outland application, he could not only be removed but also receive an Exclusion Order banning him from returning to Canada for 1 year (or longer).

2. Even if he stays and files an Inland application, he must be totally honest about his status. This is paramount!

3. Uh...working without authorization is most definitely detrimental. This only compounds his problem, IMHO.

4. Hard to say. You do have a difficult road ahead of you, so perhaps contacting an attorney for a free consultation isn't a bad idea.

Good luck!

 

[atlantic]

Re: Inland vs. Outland - Ecuador

Thanks for the reply.

Regarding the Exclusion Order, what would lead to that being issued - is it to do with how long he's been in Canada?

Also, is it possible to file an Outland application while he stays in Canada?

 

[Ponga]

Re: Inland vs. Outland - Ecuador

His 5 year overstay could certainly lead to an exclusion Order, or even worse...a Deportation Order.

Having said that, I can't say with absolute certainty that his submission of an Outland application from within Canada would automatically trigger either of those. I can say that the majority of those in Canada without status have opted to submit an Inland application, since it `appears' to offer some level of protection against removal. It does not, however, guarantee that the person would not be removed.

The fact that his original visa expired (as opposed to a person from a visa-exempt country who overstays) means that he may be on CBSA's radar. Unlike a person that does not require an actual visa, CBSA may/may not know when the person left Canada...if they did in fact leave. In your boyfriend's case...they may (somehow) know that he's still here...somewhere.

When he completes the application, he will need to be truthful about his overstay (even if he returns home to apply Outland); he has no choice, because if he is found to have misrepresented himself, his problem (and yours too, since you have a vested/financial interest in this) gets a whole lot worse reallllly quick!

 

[atlantic]

So it looks like we have three options: apply inland, apply outland while from Ecuador or apply outland while staying in Canada. I'd appreciate input from anyone else who may have been in a similar situation or who has any advice to offer.

atlantic

 

[Ponga]

So it looks like we have three options: apply inland, apply outland while from Ecuador or apply outland while staying in Canada. I'd appreciate input from anyone else who may have been in a similar situation or who has any advice to offer.

atlantic

IMHO, his best option is to leave Canada and submit an Outland application.

Second best option is to stay in Canada and submit an Inland application and hope that he's one of the lucky ones.

Last option...stay and submit an Outland application...I guess.

 

[Help22]

I am in the same situation not as much of an overstay but not the point. I would do inland. I did outland and withdrew it yesterday due to pure fear. Not iam back to square one so I suggest get the app in asap. Not sure how CBSA work and they find out about the overstay do cic tell them I don't know. Not sure with the visa exempt countries and others. Any way get the app in !!!

 

[Regina]

I am sorry very much for being cynical.
But just try to say your husband-to-be that he has to leave Canada after wedding and go back to Equador to wait till his complicated and because of that long process of getting PR from outland will be finished.
You could be surprised.

 

[Regina]

I am sorry very much for being cynical.
But just try to say your husband-to-be that he has to leave Canada after wedding and go back to Equador to wait till his complicated and because of that long process of getting PR from outland will be finished.
You could be surprised.

And yes, you should ask a lawyer!!!! HIS case is a case when he MUST go to a lawyer. Internet could not help him.

 

[Ponga]

And yes, you should ask a lawyer!!!! HIS case is a case when he MUST go to a lawyer. Internet could not help him.

That is simply NOT true.

While it might be a good idea to at least talk with a lawyer, since most offer a free phone consultation, he does not NEED a lawyer. He is not yet under a removal order or action, AFAIK.

MANY people here have applied while out of status, without a lawyer, and managed to get through the process.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

That is simply NOT true.

While it might be a good idea to at least talk with a lawyer, since most offer a free phone consultation, he does not NEED a lawyer. He is not yet under a removal order or action, AFAIK.

MANY people here have applied while out of status, without a lawyer, and managed to get through the process.

Agreed. A lawyer is not required.

 

[Regina]

A lawyer is not required.

For an advice? He definitely needs a lawyer.

 

[canadianwoman]

There was a forum member who used to post frequently - in limbo. Her husband also was out of status and working illegally, though in his case in South Korea. They were completely honest on their application.
His application was refused. One reason was that he was living and working without authorization in a 'richer' country than his own. Since he was willing to commit immigration fraud in one country, what was there to show that he wasn't also committing immigration fraud with his PR application? This was according to the visa officer.

They eventually won their appeal, but it took years.

Meanwhile, they knew several couples in the same situation. These other couples lied about the man's immigration history. They said they met on the internet and had an internet romance. They did not say they had been living without a visa in another country. They also did not admit that the man had been working without a visa. These men all got accepted for PR.

I am not advising you to lie. If CIC finds out, he can be banned from Canada for 5 years for misrepresentation.
If one person could post here and say that they admitted on their PR application that they had been in Canada for 6 years without the needed visa, and had worked illegally, but nevertheless they got accepted for PR without too much delay, I would be happier with any advice we give you.

 

[Mapleson]

The issue with antidotal cases is that they are self-selecting. If you read the papers or have watched any of the immigration specials from CBC et al, you'll see that while multiple cases of immigration fraud (lying on the application regards to history) are successful, the relationships tend to have a much higher failure rate than legitimate cases. CIC is right to be concerned that an illegal immigrant is more likely to commit marriage fraud.

If he's willing to return to Ecuador to complete the process (with a chance that it will be rejected and require an drawn-out appeal process), then at least I would feel much more hopeful about your chances of a happy outcome.

Edit: After reading the Alberta prosecution of misrepresentation, I was looking at the specific laws involved. Specifically, under the Citizenship Act (Section 10.1):

the Minister may revoke a person’s citizenship or renunciation of citizenship if the Minister is satisfied on a balance of probabilities that the person has obtained, retained, renounced or resumed his or her citizenship by false representation or fraud or by knowingly concealing material circumstances.

 

[atlantic]

Thank you all for the feedback. We are going to arrange legal consultations to see what advice we get on that end.