Inland vs. Outland Application

[Whitney]

Hi all,

My Australian partner and I are getting ready to move back to Canada permanently at the beginning of August and we're debating inland vs. outland processing (spouse sponsored PR, I'm a Canadian citizen). I'm leaning towards inland because he'll be able to apply for an open work permit and probably work sooner than if we apply outland (even though overall processing time is faster). I just have a couple questions about inland applications that I'm hoping someone can help with.

1. Will he have any issue getting a visitor visa to enter Canada? He has previously lived and worked in Canada, we will be married by the time we arrive, and there is nothing to exclude him from eligibility. I'm just worried that he'll be turned away because they think he's planning to stay permanently (overstaying visitor visa or not genuine visitor because he's applying for PR). Should we be upfront about our intention to apply inland for PR and work permit? Or not mention anything unless asked directly? We have not booked a return ticket for him but have savings to show he can live without working for several months, afford a place ticket home at any time, and I will write a declaration saying I intend to support him financially as he cannot work legally in Canada.

2. If his medicals (scheduled to be completed tomorrow in Australia) expire after 1 year will he have to re-do them or re-do police clearances if processing takes longer than 1 year (which is likely given the average is 26 months inland)?

3. Is there any issue completing medicals in Australia and then submitting inland visa application?

4. How do we go about applying for open work permit? Do we send the forms with his PR application? Is there anything special that needs to be done? It's really tough to find clear info about this.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Whitney

 

[CanadianAlien]

Hi all,

My Australian partner and I are getting ready to move back to Canada permanently at the beginning of August and we're debating inland vs. outland processing (spouse sponsored PR, I'm a Canadian citizen). I'm leaning towards inland because he'll be able to apply for an open work permit and probably work sooner than if we apply outland (even though overall processing time is faster). I just have a couple questions about inland applications that I'm hoping someone can help with.

1. Will he have any issue getting a visitor visa to enter Canada? He has previously lived and worked in Canada, we will be married by the time we arrive, and there is nothing to exclude him from eligibility. I'm just worried that he'll be turned away because they think he's planning to stay permanently (overstaying visitor visa or not genuine visitor because he's applying for PR). Should we be upfront about our intention to apply inland for PR and work permit? Or not mention anything unless asked directly? We have not booked a return ticket for him but have savings to show he can live without working for several months, afford a place ticket home at any time, and I will write a declaration saying I intend to support him financially as he cannot work legally in Canada.

2. If his medicals (scheduled to be completed tomorrow in Australia) expire after 1 year will he have to re-do them or re-do police clearances if processing takes longer than 1 year (which is likely given the average is 26 months inland)?

3. Is there any issue completing medicals in Australia and then submitting inland visa application?

4. How do we go about applying for open work permit? Do we send the forms with his PR application? Is there anything special that needs to be done? It's really tough to find clear info about this.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Whitney

I applied inland and these are just my thoughts...if he doesn't have a return ticket he won't be going! Unless he can show immigration status in Canada to the airline they won't let him fly on a one-way ticket as if refused at the border the airline must pick up the tab for his return, most persons applying at the border for a "dual-intent" visa have most/some of the following...open return ticket (pay the extra for a ticket you can cash in, I cashed mine in within 4 weeks of arriving), travel insurance for at least 6 months (as he will be a visitor until he gets his open work permit), medical insurance (can be included in travel insurance), proof of funds to support himself and proof of a reason to return if refused. I had all of this, to cover the last point I simply got my old boss in the UK to write me a reference stating he would be happy to re-employ me if I came back. The CBSA agent said I had one of the most complete sets of requirements they had ever seen (even so I sat in immigration for 2 hours with my wife). When he talks to the agent..BE HONEST. He wants a dual status visitor visa, this is entering Canada as a visitor and agreeing to live within the conditions of being a visitor (no working, healthcare etc) while preparing and applying for PR Inland. I was given a 12 month visitor record at the border.

His medicals...don't waste the money, cancel that appointment! Do them in Canada, and as long as he is here in country they do NOT expire for the Inland PR, no need to re-do. His police clearances "may" expire, but such is life...

Open work permit...simple enough, pay the fee upfront (there will be 2 receipts, one for the PR fee and one for the OWP) and complete the application and submit with your PR application, as long as he has legal status he should receive it in about 4 months.

 

[CDNPR2014]

as an australian citizen, he is better off applying OUTLAND, not inland. Syndey is one of the quicker visa offices, and i think the current time frame for outland applicants is ~ 6 months, some are probably approved in less time. that means, as an outland applicant, he would be completely approved for PR in just about the same time or less than getting the OWP for inland. inland takes 2+ years to complete.

Apply outland. He can still enter canada as a visitor and stay in canada while his applicaiton processes. since he is visa exempt, he does not require a visa to travel to canada. at immigraiton, when CBSA sees he is applying for PR (and you can show proof of your application), they will be more friendly and won't give him much issue. Even if CBSA does limit his initial entry with a visitor's record, once in, he can always apply to extend his stay as a visitor. PR applicants are rarely denied visitor extensions.

I would recommend checking out the Syndey applicant thread to see what the current "trend" is for approval. do not go by the outland processing times posted on the cic website. they do not suggest an average time. most applications are processed in much less time that is posted.

APPLY OUTLAND! APPLY OUTLAND! APPLY OUTLAND!

 

[Whitney]

Thanks so much for the advice.

Ok... now I'm thinking outland again! Here's the thing... We are getting married on July 15th and planned to lodge our application immediately after the wedding.We have one way tickets booked to Vancouver on August 2nd. Will that be enough time to get a response from Canada about having received our application?

I thought entering as a visitor would be a piece of cake but the more I read on this forum the more freaked out I get about him getting turned away at the border!

If we apply outland we can still book a refundable return ticket and get travel/health insurance (we will anyway as I no longer have Canadian healthcare either after living abroad for four years). We can also get a letter from his employer about having a job to return to. Is that going to be enough?

 

[Whitney]

I also want to add that you are both amazing. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your experience and advice. This is such a stressful process and there are so few resources to find information and ask questions. I really appreciate your help.

 

[CDNPR2014]

Thanks so much for the advice.

Ok... now I'm thinking outland again! Here's the thing... We are getting married on July 15th and planned to lodge our application immediately after the wedding.We have one way tickets booked to Vancouver on August 2nd. Will that be enough time to get a response from Canada about having received our application?

I thought entering as a visitor would be a piece of cake but the more I read on this forum the more freaked out I get about him getting turned away at the border!

If we apply outland we can still book a refundable return ticket and get travel/health insurance (we will anyway as I no longer have Canadian healthcare either after living abroad for four years). We can also get a letter from his employer about having a job to return to. Is that going to be enough?

1. you don't need anything specifically from cic about your application. for me, showing them a stack of paperwork (my copy of my application) and my receipt for fees paid was enough proof for them.

2. please don't let stories on this forum freak you out. a lot of the stories are worst case scenarios and most people don't have negative experiences. while it's important to understand the rules (ie: remembering the pr applicant is not "moving" or "living" to canada yet, only "visiting" while his application processes) and be aware of what "could" happen, it doesn't mean you have to go into the game expecting a negative experience. remember, there are countries that have stricter requirements than some, and as a visa exempt australian, the threshold is a bit lower than others.

3. yes, a return ticket and proof of employment in australia are great things to have and will help ease CIC's concerns. they are mostly concerned about whether someone is likely to work illegally while in canada, so having the letter from his employer will be very helpful.

 

[Ponga]

This should help ease some of the angst:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/temp/visa/dual.asp

As long as the officer is convinced that the foreign national understands the rules, and can satisfy his/her concerns (if any) that they will abide by those rules, they have a better than 50% chance of being allowed entry.

 

[CanadianAlien]

Being a "first-world" national like myself (I'm UK) and also being visa exempt, as long as you follow the above advice it is highly unlikely you're spouse would be refused entry (remember this forum covers all applicants from all nations, and certain nations will always have problems entering, so while you may see posts and apply them to you, it's highly unlikely the same criteria would apply).

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Ok... now I'm thinking outland again

Definitly apply outland. Sydney is a fast office. And definitely keep the appointment for the medical tomorrow.

 

[canadianwoman]

Get a return ticket. For one thing, as mentioned above, he will need one just to get on the plane.

He does not need a visa to enter Canada. He will just enter as a visitor, whether he later applies inland or outland. Be clear that he is just visiting.

 

[Whitney]

Has anyone read about the ETA program? We're still in the leniency period so he could fly without it but I'm curious if the airline will take that in lieu of a return ticket or visa (seeing as how Aus is visa-exempt). I'm planning to call the airline to confirm and I'll post update with what I find out.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Has anyone read about the ETA program? We're still in the leniency period so he could fly without it but I'm curious if the airline will take that in lieu of a return ticket or visa (seeing as how Aus is visa-exempt). I'm planning to call the airline to confirm and I'll post update with what I find out.

An eTA is merely pre-authorization to enter Canada. It is not a substitute for a return ticket or visa.

Just buy a completely separate and fully refundable ticket back.

 

[CanadianAlien]

We can't make this any plainer....no ticket for ongoing travel from canada, you will not be allowed on that plane without proving valid immigration status. You won't have a chance to present you're case at the border...as you won't be there!

Also one of the major things the CBSA officer will look at is...how likely is he to go home if I give him visitor status?.....with no ticket?

I appreciate the cost is substantial but like everyone else you just need to grin and bear it as part of immigration. Find the cheapest refundable ticket and accept the loss part....it is better for you in the long run!

 

[CanadianAlien]

I discussed you're case with a friend...he and his partner had a similar situation regarding purchasing the return ticket, (the open return for one was double the cost of the 2 singles). What he did was purchase a cheap single from Canada to another country for a few months from his arrival date. When questioned at the airport prior to starting his journey he produced the single and stated he was on holiday and was going to travel through Canada to the other departure point continuing his holiday (he made sure the other ticket was a different airline, although I have no idea if this is relevant). He stuck to this story...and they had to accept it..and allowed him to travel.

In your spouses case, a ticket from Halifax to the UK will cost $400-500 CAN on westjet (non-refundable) you can book it and pay online and print the ticket, and the UK is also a popular destination with aussies owing to the lax working/immigration rules for Australians.....any chance he has friends or relatives in the UK who could dash up a letter stating he would be staying with them on an extended visit if his PR application is unsuccessful (this part for the CBSA agent when the question of why the ticket is not to his original starting point).

Just a thought.

 

[Rob_TO]

We can't make this any plainer....no ticket for ongoing travel from canada, you will not be allowed on that plane without proving valid immigration status. You won't have a chance to present you're case at the border...as you won't be there!

Not really true, many visa-exempt people are able to board flights with just 1-way tickets. It really depends on the airline, some are picky about this and others couldn't care less.

One could try to check-in, and only if the airline really puts up a fuss about it you can then buy a fully refundable onward ticket on the spot and just cancel it right after.

Also one of the major things the CBSA officer will look at is...how likely is he to go home if I give him visitor status?.....with no ticket?

Again every case is different. While having a return tickets is advised in case CBSA wants to dig further, majority of travelers are never even asked about return tickets.