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Inland v Outland applications

Iim

Full Member
Nov 27, 2011
23
0
Hi,

I am currently living in Quebec with my gf and we are in the process of gathering all the documents for the application. After hearing that I can still apply from outside while living here, we decided to go that route since it is faster to process the applications than inland. But now we just read somewhere that when applying from outland, there is no such thing as implied status?

Thanks,
Mark
 

sidkrose

Hero Member
Apr 25, 2011
321
8
124
Canada
Category........
Visa Office......
Berlin
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
26-07-2011
AOR Received.
24-10-2011
Med's Done....
08-07-2011
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
15-11-2011
VISA ISSUED...
25-11-2011
LANDED..........
10-12-2011
It is true that you must maintain status if you want to stay in Canada for the duration of your outland app, however, if you come from a visa exempt country it is quite simple to extend your stay. You can apply for an extension a month before your current status expires and you WILL have implied status until you hear back about the extension, which will most likely be granted.

Many many many people "visit" their spouse in Canada while waiting for their outland PR app to be processed. If you are from a visa exempt country, outland is almost always the best way to go.
 

Iim

Full Member
Nov 27, 2011
23
0
Sorry, I'm not quite sure I understand you. Can I get implied status if I apply from outside Canada?

I am from a visa exempt country but I have been here for over a year now and I can't just change my status to "tourist" because I have a permanent job.

EDIT:

OK, after reading it again I think I understand you.

If I apply from outside Canada I must have a valid work permit for the whole duration of the application.

Inside Canada I get implied status (Do you know how long it takes to get implied status after you send the complete application in?)

Yes, I am from a visa exempt country but my permit is a working holiday visa and it specfically says on it that it cannot be extended. Since this is a different situation, does that matter?

I found a link for extending my visa but it says I must get a positive labor marked opinion, could you provide me with a link to what you are talking about? I may have the wrong one.

Thanks,
Mark
 

sidkrose

Hero Member
Apr 25, 2011
321
8
124
Canada
Category........
Visa Office......
Berlin
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
26-07-2011
AOR Received.
24-10-2011
Med's Done....
08-07-2011
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
15-11-2011
VISA ISSUED...
25-11-2011
LANDED..........
10-12-2011
When I answered, I didn't realize that you were looking to renew a work permit. You have a couple options, you could apply to extend the visa, and simply "switch" your status to visitor for the duration of the application (which may only be a few months, depending on your VO and your case). Or, you could apply for a work permit, in which case, I believe you would need a PLMO. Since you have a job already, I feel like this may not be much of a problem. But I'm not an expert on work permits. Hopefully, someone else can weigh in as well. I would still advise against Inland, as it is often more trouble than it's worth for those who are visa exempt.
 

Iim

Full Member
Nov 27, 2011
23
0
It seems to me the best way to go is inland because of the possibility of having to travel for the interview.

The plan now is to get a LMO/CAQ from work, apply for a work permit and at the same time send the applicaiton in for PR. My current permit runs out in August.
 

CharlieD10

VIP Member
Sep 5, 2010
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Northern Ontario
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30-3-2012
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13-04-2012
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06-06-2012
You need to take into consideration that MOST applicants aren't asked to attend an interview. As long as you present all necessary documentation and have a straightforward relationship development and progress, you will likely not be called to an interview. Interviews are exceptions, not the norm. Especially are they not the norm for persons from visa-exempt countries with a similar standard of living to Canada, whose citizens are viewed as less likely to be marrying to gain status under IRPA.

If all you're looking to avoid is an interview by choosing Inland, I would recommend a rethink.
 

RobsLuv

Champion Member
Jul 14, 2008
1,838
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Ontario
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Original:9May'07; Reprocess:7May'10
AOR Received.
Original:28Apr'07; Reprocess:26Apr'10
File Transfer...
n/a
Med's Request
Reprocessing:7May2010
Med's Done....
Jun2010
Interview........
n/a
Passport Req..
30Nov2010!!
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31Dec2010!!
LANDED..........
31Jan2011
To answer your original question: yes, there is such a thing as "implied status" when you apply outland - but I'm not sure what your understanding of "implied status" is, so I'll clarify. "Implied status" is about the time between when someone with valid temporary status (an unexpired visitor permit, work permit, or study permit) submits an application to extend that status, and when they finally receive notification of the decision on that application. So, for example, someone is in Canada with a visitor permit and they apply to extend it - they have "implied status" to remain in Canada under the terms of their original visitor permit ("ignoring" the expiration date) until they receive a decision on the extension application, either a new visitor permit or a refusal and notification to leave Canada.

When someone is being sponsored for PR and they are in Canada with temporary status, they still need to apply to extend that status when it's due to expire. An application submitted for PR does not give someone temporary status. If an applicant is being sponsored inland, they include the extension application WITH the inland PR ap - and, as long as the applications are received BEFORE their temporary status expires, they benefit from "implied status" to continue in Canada under the terms of their original temporary status until the first stage of assessment is completed on their PR ap. Since this is currently taking close to one year, that can be a valuable asset if someone is in Canada with a study or work permit - it extends the original work or study permit (and allows the person to continue to work or study under their original conditions) until such time as first stage is assessed and a new status document is issued. The status issued after first stage approval would be whatever was requested in the extension ap - usually either an Open Work Permit or a new study permit. Someone with valid visitor status is also able to request an Open Work Permit (or study permit if they want to) to be issued immediately upon first stage approval - but their "implied status" while waiting for first stage is still just as a visitor. They can't begin to work until the OWP is issued, whereas someone in Canada with a restricted work permit that hadn't expired would be able to continue working for that employer at that job until they got first stage and their OWP. Then they could work for anybody.

An outland applicant can also apply to extend their temporary status (separately from the PR ap) with approval being supported by proof of the qualifying relationship and a sponsorship application in process BUT an outland applicant is not eligible to extend a work or study permit based on the PR ap in process. They would have to apply to change their conditions to tourist/visitor in order to stay, and would have to stop working or studying when their original permit expired - although they would still benefit from "implied status" to stay in Canada as a visitor until a decision was made on the extension ap. Your situation is complicated by the fact that you are in Canada on a working holiday visa, and it's my understanding that WHVs are not eligible to be extended, so you would either have to change your status to visitor, or (as you mentioned) get a positive LMO and CAQ and apply separately for a restricted work permit in order to continue working.
Iim said:
The plan now is to get a LMO/CAQ from work, apply for a work permit and at the same time send the applicaiton in for PR. My current permit runs out in August.
But be careful! You can't do that by including that application with your inland PR ap - which I think you're saying here. You'd have to get the positive LMO/CAQ, and then apply for a regular work permit through your overseas embassy. If you were successful in getting a new work permit, then you could apply for inland PR and include the extension for that permit with an inland PR ap to be able to continue working under it until the completion of first stage assessment. But since you have a WHV that is valid until next August - I don't get the impression you're intending to wait that long to apply for PR. Either way, you should never apply inland while waiting for a WP application to be processed because there is no way to then notify CIC of your new status, and they could end up thinking you don't have valid temporary status and that would really mess with your inland processing. You have to have the valid status already, and include the extension to it with the inland ap.

You don't say which country you're from - at least I didn't notice if you did - so, in deciding whether to apply inland or outland, you might also consider whether having to travel home for an interview (if one is even required) is a deal breaker for you. Remember, though, that inland applicants have no right to appeal a refusal, and you're bound to stay in Canada for the duration of processing (up to 18 months) or you risk forfeiting the application if you have to leave the country and can't get back in.

How soon are you eligible to be sponsored? If you're eligible now and your current working holiday visa doesn't expire until August 2012, you have quite a bit of time to get along in an outland sponsorship process before you have to look at changing your temporary status and being without an income - so, depending on which overseas office would process an outland application for you, if you're eligible now you could easily apply outland, continue working in Canada under your WHV while the ap was processing, and then just wait out the remainder of your processing as a visitor if you're not finalized before your WHV expires in August. If an interview was required, you could attend and chances are good you'd get back into Canada by virtue of your WHV, but your outland application would be safe - and would continue processing to completion - even if you did not stay in Canada or could not return.
 

AmericaninQuebec

Hero Member
Oct 12, 2011
528
7
Quebec
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-02-2011
Interview........
waived
Passport Req..
05-12-2011
VISA ISSUED...
15-12-2011
LANDED..........
11-01-2012
I just wanted to weigh in, because of my own experience. I came to Quebec in May 2010, married my spouse here Nov. 2010 and sent in my application for PR Feb. 2011. I received PPR in December 2011, and will be landing next week.

Between May 2010 and May 2011 I was offered two different jobs here in Quebec. Both times my prospective employers went through the proper channels to apply for a work permit for me, and both times they were refused. I have a masters degree, both were professional jobs, and again the steps for the applications were properly completed. I would be very hesitant to counsel you to apply inland with the assumption that you'll get a work permit right away to allow you to continue working at your present job. Your present employer (usually) must obtain a labor market review and approval from both the Federal and Quebec governments, plus he must open up the position to local workers (post advertisements, interview other candidates, and then have a very valid reason for choosing you over them). Unless you're doing something specialized or that would require lots of training for a new employee it may be very difficult for your employer to get you a new work permit.

I personally would recommend applying out land asap, and finishing out the rest of your work permit. You can still go through the steps to try and get a new work permit if you like, but depending on the visa office processing your file it might not be worthwhile depending on when your current work permit expires. If you can't get a new work permit then you could change your status to visitor and wait out the rest of your application period. Or, you could take advantage of that time to go home and tie up any loose ends you may have there, visit family, etc. Something you could not do if you apply inland, as you should not leave the country at all during the application period, which is currently about 1.5 yrs.

Anyway, that's my two cents on the matter. Good luck!
 

RobsLuv

Champion Member
Jul 14, 2008
1,838
127
124
Ontario
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
Original:14Mar2007; Reprocess began after appeal:26Apr2010
Doc's Request.
Original:9May'07; Reprocess:7May'10
AOR Received.
Original:28Apr'07; Reprocess:26Apr'10
File Transfer...
n/a
Med's Request
Reprocessing:7May2010
Med's Done....
Jun2010
Interview........
n/a
Passport Req..
30Nov2010!!
VISA ISSUED...
31Dec2010!!
LANDED..........
31Jan2011
I totally agree with AmericaninQuebec - applying for a work permit whilst being in Canada and waiting for PR finalization is not usually approved. We went through the same trying to get my daughter a study permit. Because we were being sponsored for PR, they said she couldn't prove that she intended to return home and that supposedly made her ineligible for an SP. The Minister's office eventually overturned the decision, but that was a huge deal that had to do with our PR application having been refused without cause and an excess of one hundred people writing to our MP and demanding that he demand that the Minister's office intervene. Without compelling extenuating circumstances (like the "best interest of a child") it's a long shot to get a restricted work permit that allows you to work in Canada while waiting for spousal PR. It's probably the stupidest part of the whole spousal process - that you're okay to stay in Canada with your spouse, but they insist you do so without the ability to help contribute to the support of your family. It's puts a huge burden on the sponsoring spouse - especially when kids are involved - and benefits nobody. Even spouses who are sponsored inland are not allowed to work until almost a year into the process - unless they originally came to Canada under a work permit that's extendable.
 

Emily2301

Full Member
May 15, 2011
28
0
RobsLuv said:
To answer your original question: yes, there is such a thing as "implied status" when you apply outland - but I'm not sure what your understanding of "implied status" is, so I'll clarify. "Implied status" is about the time between when someone with valid temporary status (an unexpired visitor permit, work permit, or study permit) submits an application to extend that status, and when they finally receive notification of the decision on that application. So, for example, someone is in Canada with a visitor permit and they apply to extend it - they have "implied status" to remain in Canada under the terms of their original visitor permit ("ignoring" the expiration date) until they receive a decision on the extension application, either a new visitor permit or a refusal and notification to leave Canada.

When someone is being sponsored for PR and they are in Canada with temporary status, they still need to apply to extend that status when it's due to expire. An application submitted for PR does not give someone temporary status. If an applicant is being sponsored inland, they include the extension application WITH the inland PR ap - and, as long as the applications are received BEFORE their temporary status expires, they benefit from "implied status" to continue in Canada under the terms of their original temporary status until the first stage of assessment is completed on their PR ap. Since this is currently taking close to one year, that can be a valuable asset if someone is in Canada with a study or work permit - it extends the original work or study permit (and allows the person to continue to work or study under their original conditions) until such time as first stage is assessed and a new status document is issued. The status issued after first stage approval would be whatever was requested in the extension ap - usually either an Open Work Permit or a new study permit. Someone with valid visitor status is also able to request an Open Work Permit (or study permit if they want to) to be issued immediately upon first stage approval - but their "implied status" while waiting for first stage is still just as a visitor. They can't begin to work until the OWP is issued, whereas someone in Canada with a restricted work permit that hadn't expired would be able to continue working for that employer at that job until they got first stage and their OWP. Then they could work for anybody.

An outland applicant can also apply to extend their temporary status (separately from the PR ap) with approval being supported by proof of the qualifying relationship and a sponsorship application in process BUT an outland applicant is not eligible to extend a work or study permit based on the PR ap in process. They would have to apply to change their conditions to tourist/visitor in order to stay, and would have to stop working or studying when their original permit expired - although they would still benefit from "implied status" to stay in Canada as a visitor until a decision was made on the extension ap. Your situation is complicated by the fact that you are in Canada on a working holiday visa, and it's my understanding that WHVs are not eligible to be extended, so you would either have to change your status to visitor, or (as you mentioned) get a positive LMO and CAQ and apply separately for a restricted work permit in order to continue working. But be careful! You can't do that by including that application with your inland PR ap - which I think you're saying here. You'd have to get the positive LMO/CAQ, and then apply for a regular work permit through your overseas embassy. If you were successful in getting a new work permit, then you could apply for inland PR and include the extension for that permit with an inland PR ap to be able to continue working under it until the completion of first stage assessment. But since you have a WHV that is valid until next August - I don't get the impression you're intending to wait that long to apply for PR. Either way, you should never apply inland while waiting for a WP application to be processed because there is no way to then notify CIC of your new status, and they could end up thinking you don't have valid temporary status and that would really mess with your inland processing. You have to have the valid status already, and include the extension to it with the inland ap.

You don't say which country you're from - at least I didn't notice if you did - so, in deciding whether to apply inland or outland, you might also consider whether having to travel home for an interview (if one is even required) is a deal breaker for you. Remember, though, that inland applicants have no right to appeal a refusal, and you're bound to stay in Canada for the duration of processing (up to 18 months) or you risk forfeiting the application if you have to leave the country and can't get back in.

How soon are you eligible to be sponsored? If you're eligible now and your current working holiday visa doesn't expire until August 2012, you have quite a bit of time to get along in an outland sponsorship process before you have to look at changing your temporary status and being without an income - so, depending on which overseas office would process an outland application for you, if you're eligible now you could easily apply outland, continue working in Canada under your WHV while the ap was processing, and then just wait out the remainder of your processing as a visitor if you're not finalized before your WHV expires in August. If an interview was required, you could attend and chances are good you'd get back into Canada by virtue of your WHV, but your outland application would be safe - and would continue processing to completion - even if you did not stay in Canada or could not return.

RobsLuv,

I want to apply outland (Berlin) while living with my common law partner in Canada. We came close to finishing the application when I had to send my application to extend my status as a visitor. Even though the PR application wasn't send yet, I mentioned it as a reason (also included the payment receipt because we had just paid) and included financial proof (bank statement from both of us, letter of employment and paystubs from my partner) as well as my return ticket for October (to Germany). I hope they will extend me. My question is, can I still submit my PR application and state that I'm under implied status (and include some proof)? I really don't want to wait 30 days or longer!! If it is possible, do I just send proof of extension to CIC once I got it to beincluded with my PR application? Hope this was clear... Thanks alot for answering!
 

Emily2301

Full Member
May 15, 2011
28
0
Emily2301 said:
RobsLuv,

I want to apply outland (Berlin) while living with my common law partner in Canada. We came close to finishing the application when I had to send my application to extend my status as a visitor. Even though the PR application wasn't send yet, I mentioned it as a reason (also included the payment receipt because we had just paid) and included financial proof (bank statement from both of us, letter of employment and paystubs from my partner) as well as my return ticket for October (to Germany). I hope they will extend me. My question is, can I still submit my PR application and state that I'm under implied status (and include some proof)? I really don't want to wait 30 days or longer!! If it is possible, do I just send proof of extension to CIC once I got it to beincluded with my PR application? Hope this was clear... Thanks alot for answering!
And as a related question: Is it ok to put my canadian address as mailing and residential address even though I am applying outland and can not know for sure that I can stay the entire time? I would try to come back as soon as possible though, maybe even after a joined trip with my partner. Or do I need at least one address in Germany if I apply to Berlin? I tried to look this up but I might be blind ::)