Inland Applications- File Transferred to Local Office before getting AIP

[tow75]

We had some bad news. My husband called the io an she said there is just too much contradicting evidence and she needs all the evidence she didn't want to accept yesterday. She already talked to my husbands dad in morocco and I got my landlord to call her, because she doesn't believe that m husbands parents pay the rent. My husband is going crazy trying to send her everything she wants by the end of today. I'm about to call her now and trying not to have a mental breakdown, I don't know what to do anymore I give up

 

[Kiwi12]

Please do not give up. Just calm down and pull yourself together. Get all the stuff together she is asking for. If she wasn't considering the sponsorship she wouldn't be asking for the documents. She would just flat out refuse it.

Please let me know when you have sent everything in. I want to hear from you.

 

[tow75]

Hey again,

Thanks for your support. the IO called my husband's father this morning and his optometrist, and we got our landlord to call her (the IO) and leave a message and our neighbour as well, my husband's mother will call tomorrow. I talked to the IO as well after I posted my last message, and I'm 99% sure that she'll refuse us.

She said that she's reconsidered her decision, and that there's lots of contradictions in our case even though she said yesterday that there were none. She believes that we live together, and that I'm in love with my husband, but because my husband didn't do well in his engineering courses in 2008/ 2009 and switched programs a few times (electrical engineering to industrial drafting to intensive english to finance for a month) he never had the intention of studying here, and he was just looking for someone to trick in to sponsoring him (which ended up being me according to her). We met in 2010, so from her point of view he was manipulating me even when we were still dating and he was still in status.

I explained that my husband probably was a terrible student back then (he was 18/19 and partied almost every night) and that he decided to study here because his parents wanted him to have a diploma and Canada was the only place that spoke French. He has a manipulative cousin living here who told his parents that he should do engineering before he moved here in 2008, and because of the way that culture works in Morocco, him and his family accepted this even though it wasn't what he wanted. We both explained this at the interview because I have a good understanding of the ways Moroccan culture differs from our own. She told me that I should be very cautious about my husband's intentions and implied that I'm a naive, in love person who can't see the truth about who my husband really is.

I also told her that there is no incentive for my husband to fake a relationship with me for status- people want status and residency to get a better job, have a nice, Canadian lifestyle- unless you're being persecuted and your life is in danger, reasons to have a residency are mostly material. My husband's life here with me has been FAR from nice, and if he moved back to Morocco he'd have everything he could ever want (and he could just go study in France, Spain, etc if having a diploma was really that important) Here he only has what I buy him...which is not that much.

Any sort of relationship proof I have, anything we both say about our plans, our lives together now (including our plans to have kids)...she wants "proof" of my husband's intentions when he moved here 4 years ago, which is impossible. She thinks he moved here to take advantage of someone like me.

My husband is the sweetest. most affectionate and genuine person I've ever met, and if he's lying to me I might as well jump off a bridge and end it because I'll never trust anyone never again. There's no way someone can fake 2 1/2 years after everything we've been through. We'll both go back to Morocco and apply outland after a while. They can refuse a young couple's application because we got married at a weird time and my husband screwed up his school and had a hard time making decisions about what to study, but can they refuse a couple who's been together 5 years with a massive wedding and a ton of evidence?? I don't think so.

I do know that neither of us can prove what was going on in my husband's mind 4 years ago, and neither of us can prove how genuine our relationship is if the IO already has another idea in her head. We've given all the proof we can and trying to prove that my husband is not lying is like trying to prove that God exists- there's nothing else we can do.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around accepting that I'll have leave everything I know here- our appartment, furniture (which I'm still paying for), my job, our neighbours and friends - and our birds.

Thanks so much for the kind words but I'm not sure there's any hope left for us. This is making me question Canada's status as a developed country.

 

[frege]

Tow75,

I would suggest you go to an immigration lawyer as soon as possible.

The immigration officer is obligated to consider any information you provide right up until the time she makes a decision. That can include affidavits from people who know you, or other evidence. A lawyer might know how to buy you time to submit additional information, for example by writing to her to ask for more time. If you do this, you'll want to hurry because the IO may be rushing to finish so that you can't do this.

If you challenge the decision in court, the court isn't allowed to look at everything again and make its own decision. That's because this is an inland procedure. It can only overturn the decision if it is patently unreasonable or unjust in some fundamental way. That's why you need to make it as unreasonable for her as you can, before she makes the decision.

If you apply again outland, then you'll have the right to appeal to the IAD, and they look at it all with a fresh pair of eyes. Your lawyer may say that that would be a better idea. However, they will consider what this IO says happened in the current interview.

For the moment, in addition to speaking to a lawyer, try and write down as much as you both remember from the interview. Unfortunately, what the IO says will probably be considered reliable as to what was actually said in the interview, but maybe not her interpretation of it.

As soon as you can, request your GCMS notes so you can see what she entered about the interview. Things that were not entered on the day of the interview, and especially a long time afterwards, will be given less weight in any future procedure.

To find a lawyer, use the directory of the Quebec Association of Immigration Lawyers.

http://www.aqaadi.com/

Edit: Perhaps the lawyer will even suggest withdrawing and reapplying outland. I'm not sure.

Edit: One aspect that is particularly unreasonable is that she says you're being honest but he's fooled you. Those cases are generally hard for them to defend when you come across as someone who is intelligent and not easily fooled in that way, especially for two whole years. If people who know you say the same about you, then that's even better. However, it still may be more advantageous to do it outland than inland.

 

[tow75]

Hi Frege,

Thanks for your very helpful response. An immigration lawyer sounds like a good idea...but one that I definitely couldn't afford. I don't think we'd really want to stick around here any longer while this process is completed. My husband has already been out of status for 2 years, and just sitting at home every day waiting for a decision to be made. He's here for me - he knows I want to work and advance my career, and wouldn't want to disrupt that. I do my best for him but I worry about his health, physically and mentally (sitting at home all day for 2 years is probably one of the hardest things to do...I can't even imagine how messed up I'd be if that was me)- I tried to explain all of this to the IO but she just kept maintaining there was "something in it for him", even if he'd be rich in Morocco with everything he wanted- there's no incentive for him to give up everything in his life for 2 years just to have a legitimate Canadian job.

How would a refusal inland affect our application outland? I anticipate that we'll have a ton more proof...even the plane tickets that I left the country with him are a start, and we're planning to have a big wedding with both sides of the family invited. We need a good 6 months without worrying about any immigration stuff...we'll go on vacation to all the places we've always wanted to before doing anything like this ever again.

I think I'm pretty intelligent and not easily fooled, and all my friends and family would say the same. It's good to know that someone else thinks my husband is not a liar!!

 

[frege]

Hi Frege,

Thanks for your very helpful response. An immigration lawyer sounds like a good idea...but one that I definitely couldn't afford. I don't think we'd really want to stick around here any longer while this process is completed. My husband has already been out of status for 2 years, and just sitting at home every day waiting for a decision to be made. He's here for me - he knows I want to work and advance my career, and wouldn't want to disrupt that. I do my best for him but I worry about his health, physically and mentally (sitting at home all day for 2 years is probably one of the hardest things to do...I can't even imagine how messed up I'd be if that was me)- I tried to explain all of this to the IO but she just kept maintaining there was "something in it for him", even if he'd be rich in Morocco with everything he wanted- there's no incentive for him to give up everything in his life for 2 years just to have a legitimate Canadian job.

How would a refusal inland affect our application outland? I anticipate that we'll have a ton more proof...even the plane tickets that I left the country with him are a start, and we're planning to have a big wedding with both sides of the family invited. We need a good 6 months without worrying about any immigration stuff...we'll go on vacation to all the places we've always wanted to before doing anything like this ever again.

I think I'm pretty intelligent and not easily fooled, and all my friends and family would say the same. It's good to know that someone else thinks my husband is not a liar!!

Unfortunately, I'm not sure how a formal refusal would affect your application later. I was hoping a lawyer could tell you this. If you appealed it to a court, that could definitely affect any later application, because the matter would already be considered decided, and you'd need "decisive fresh evidence" to revisit the decision. That's why you'll probably want to reapply outland, where the appeal rights are better. What I'm not certain about is whether by not appealing this decision, that counts as having decided the matter. I think probably not, because she's not a court - but I'm not sure.

I really think you'll need a lawyer eventually. If they reject you now, as seems likely, then when you apply outland, it's practically certain that they'll reject you again. At that point you'll need to appeal to the IAD, and it's going to be very difficult for you without a lawyer. But really, you should have a lawyer help you with your second application.

I'm sorry that you're going through this, and I think it's unfair that you would need to dish out thousands of dollars just to receive justice. But I think that's the way it's going to be. At some point, you'll have to decide whether it's worth five thousand dollars or so to you to both live in Canada. If you have difficulty adjusting in Morocco, you should consider both of you living in a third country, like France, if this is possible.

Edit: I think immediate advice from a lawyer now might cost something in the hundreds of dollars.

 

[lecoq]

Hi, I was reading your post and its really unfortunate all these events,, like other people here I must suggest you to look for a lawyer, the problem here is that we (normal people), we don't know the law and how it works, sometimes the agents are trespassing the line between correct and paranoid, I know a lawyer is expensive but at least you can go to a consult (its gonna be like 150$) but be assured that you will know what to do after that, I had a lawyer, he helped us to put everything in order so the IO could find everything easily and he was with us all the time and because of him the IO was really nice and not overdoing stuff, we even got our AIP by hands of the agent the same day of the interview so it really makes a difference having a lawyer with you all the time, maybe you can think it like this way for example, if you have to return, without mentioning the shock to leave under these circumstances you must pay the rent here and get rid of stuff, storage and then airplane tickets, and other stuff, and pay again to do everything again, and after paying tickets to come back, so at the end you will be paying more and getting really late results, because I think if you get out of Canada, your husband must ask the permission to the minister to come back and that alone its another 450$ ( I hope this doesn't apply for you)..

best of luck, and keep us informed ...

 

[Kiwi12]

Hi Tow,

I actually sat here crying and wrote you a personal message but it was so long that it timed out. The only thing I can say to you at this point is that I am right beside you all the way through this. I am not going to talk to you about lawyers and consultants. I know your position in this. There is still that 1%.

 

[tow75]

Thanks so much kiwi. I'm so lucky to have found so much support on here. We were so upset yesterday but since then we've accepted the situation and made peace with it. My husband has sacrificed everything to stay here with me.... We're still young and I cann afford the time to drop everything and sit on a beach in morocco for a couple years. It will be a good experience for both of us I think.

My husbands mom called the io this morning and told here everything, including how she would support me in morocco for the rest of my life if we're turned down here.

Then my neighbor called, who is a great friend, and the io was rid to him, asked him where she got his number from, and told him she would call him if she needed him. She's made her mind up. We've done everything we possibly good. I just hope the refusal letter comes soon so we can start getting everything together.

 

[tow75]

I just got a call from the io.. She was all annoyed that people keep calling her office number, so she asked me to stop giving it out. The only people who have her number are my husbands mom, my landlord and my neighbor. My husband called and left a message to ask if she got the stuff we sent. I don't understand why this is a problem, she gave us had a day to prove our entire relationship and th people who care about us are trying to help ad defend us.

 

[Kiwi12]

Hi Tow,

You have done everything you possibly can do. Unfortunately this IO is going to make you sweat this out, no matter what decision she makes. I know that it will be hard if the decision is negative but however this ends, everything happens for a reason and regardless, the two of you will be together one way or the other. I know how you feel about your animals, I too have a menagerie of dogs, ferrets and birds that I have adopted over the years but this is about your relationship. I believe you and your husband love each other very much and now is the time for the two of you to pull together and support each other as the marital couple you are. I don't know what else to tell you except that I am sorry this is happening to you. Some people prey on the weak. Try and remain strong for each other. I am here with you.

 

[tow75]

I know it will be ok somehow. My husband's parents have been so amazing for the last few days...they're offering to buy us a house anywhere we want. They're super angry of course...my husband's mom told the IO that she loves me like her own daughter, and will support me unconditionally for the rest of my life. My husband's dad said the same. They don't want us to reapply outland at all, and they never want to set foot in Canada ever again. I'll have Moroccan citizenship 2 days after I enter the country...which will make me a triple citizen (Canadian, British and Moroccan)...kind of exciting! Royal Air Maroc takes birds in the cabin on the plane, afterwards they will probably go into quarantine for 40 days, but my husband might be able to pull a few strings and get them taken care of by the same people who look after the King's animals (his dogs get baths and massages every day haha). One of the King's advisors heard about our situation from my husband's dad, and he wanted to call our IO to talk to her...luckily he didn't, that would have driven her nuts.
The hardest part will be telling my parents. They're going to think I'll end up wearing a burqa with no future no matter what I tell them. Maybe we can start up a vacation rental home business, since from what I've heard Morocco is the new Spain. Maybe I'll start a blog!!
I just hope the IO will hurry up and let us know because this is worse than torture.

 

[Kiwi12]

One thing about birds as long as they have a partner they seem to be able to withstand almost anything. I have raised cockatiels for years. I have a father and daughter pair left. I got him in 2000 and he had to be at least a year or two old at that time so hes probably 13 or 14 now and the daughter was born in 2002. When the father's partner died a few years ago he was angry when I removed her from the cage. For about two weeks when I would change his water or food he would turn around on the perch with his back to me and he wouldn't file down his beak. He was severely depressed and I couldn't believe his behaviour. He is fine now but I was worried for a while. Oftentimes when they lose their partners they give up and eventually die shortly after.

Your back up plan sounds wonderful. I am preparing mine next week. It really is a no lose situation for us if our sponsorship was refused but it would be inconvenient. The issue at hand right now is that my husband is getting tired of not working. Like me he has been working since he was 17 and we are now both 50. We are hard workers and both make great money in our jobs. The good news is we will be content whatever the decision is but we want an answer so we can get our life started. We don't need to worry about status because he has visitor status until July of 2013.

I hope you hear something today or tomorrow. It would be a wonderful Christmas gift if you heard good news before Monday.

 

[tow75]

We have 3 budgies, 2 males and a female, it looks like our female and youngest male are kind of partners because they sit all close together when they're out of their cages. We keep them all separately because our female is very aggressive most of the time (except with our youngest bird). She decided to lay eggs earlier this year and cost us $300...even though she has a love/hate relationship with our oldest male bird (who was the only one up for the "job" at the time ) If we have to take them on a plane, it would be our female we'd be the most worried about. Our oldest male bird is crazy for his mirror (and for us) and our youngest male is completely normal. We wanted to raise new birdies at one point but we did our research and it sounds super risky!!!

I think there might be a chance we can appeal if the IO refuses...I've done a bit of research and heard from some other awesome people on here, and the IO only giving us 8 hours to respond to her concerns is procedurally unfair, since she only brought them up on the phone on Tuesday and in the interview. I wrote out a letter that we'll fax her tomorrow, asking for more time to respond. I think the best rebuttal to her argument that my husband is only in this for the visa is that he has no need of the financial gain a visa will bring...in fact, even with a visa he'd still be worse off financially. We'll send my husband's bank transfers from the last 4 years, and a property value assessment for a plot of land in his name (in Morocco) that's worth millions of dollars at this point.

If she ignores the letter, she can...but if we appeal it will be clear that she's ignored evidence and not given us sufficient time to respond to her substantial concerns, which means she might be overuled by the Federal Court.

We'll see how it goes. I might get a nasty phone call from her tomorrow.

 

[frege]

We have 3 budgies, 2 males and a female, it looks like our female and youngest male are kind of partners because they sit all close together when they're out of their cages. We keep them all separately because our female is very aggressive most of the time (except with our youngest bird). She decided to lay eggs earlier this year and cost us $300...even though she has a love/hate relationship with our oldest male bird (who was the only one up for the "job" at the time ) If we have to take them on a plane, it would be our female we'd be the most worried about. Our oldest male bird is crazy for his mirror (and for us) and our youngest male is completely normal. We wanted to raise new birdies at one point but we did our research and it sounds super risky!!!

I think there might be a chance we can appeal if the IO refuses...I've done a bit of research and heard from some other awesome people on here, and the IO only giving us 8 hours to respond to her concerns is procedurally unfair, since she only brought them up on the phone on Tuesday and in the interview. I wrote out a letter that we'll fax her tomorrow, asking for more time to respond. I think the best rebuttal to her argument that my husband is only in this for the visa is that he has no need of the financial gain a visa will bring...in fact, even with a visa he'd still be worse off financially. We'll send my husband's bank transfers from the last 4 years, and a property value assessment for a plot of land in his name (in Morocco) that's worth millions of dollars at this point.

If she ignores the letter, she can...but if we appeal it will be clear that she's ignored evidence and not given us sufficient time to respond to her substantial concerns, which means she might be overuled by the Federal Court.

We'll see how it goes. I might get a nasty phone call from her tomorrow.

Great. Whatever you do, don't overstate the degree of confidence you have that you'll be able to get the documents. She or a court would expect an explanation if you promised documents but weren't able to get them and couldn't provide an explanation.