Importing vehicle as settler before PR

[nmclean]

The situation: I'm a Canadian citizen, wife is a US applicant. Her car is registered in the US and she is the sole owner.

My wife had been in Canada with the car for a few months already as a visitor, and just recently drove to the US and back again. The officer there decided to start the paperwork for importing the car as a settlers effect (no tax). This is surprising to me. It was my understanding that we could only do this once we have a certificate of PR, and that until then the car would be cursed to have only one driver (Canadian citizens aren't allowed to drive US-plated vehicles in Canada) and it would have to leave the country periodically to remain valid. Yet here we are... as long as we finish the process in the 45 days, the car will be fully imported with Canadian plates, owned by my wife (who will have a Canadian driver's license) while still being considered a tourist by CIC definitions (she's still here under a visitor record).

In fact the application hasn't even officially started, since it was mailed in at the end of July and we don't have AOR yet. The officer was fully aware of the situation. We just brought in copies of some of the filled application forms and a few of the evidence documents we submitted, as proof that we applied. We also filled out the goods to follow list at this time, which she will be able to import tax-free once she has PR. According to the officer, she will also be immediately eligible for Medicare through this process.

I just wanted to see if anyone has heard of this before.

 

[Rob_TO]

It sounds like the officer doesn't quite know what he's talking about (wouldn't be the first time). I would proceed with caution so you aren't dinged with taxes/fees/duties/customs charges once the process is done, despite what you were told. You are only supposed to be exempt on imports when you actually land as a PR.

Especially the comment regarding healthcare, this is only possibly true if living in Alberta (where visitors can be eligible if they are married to a resident). Any other province and there is slim to none chance someone who has just recently submitted a PR app gets healthcare ( i heard BC may allow but not certain). In most provinces you need PR status first.

 

[rs33]

I don't know if this will help but I imported my car from the US a few years ago (on a study permit) and I first had to apply to export the car with the US. This actually involved applying online a few days or weeks before and then getting a form saying it was all ok. I then had to go to the US border side of things before crossing into Canada. And then once in Canada, I filled out the temporary import paperwork and I was then able to insure my car in Canada and get Canadian plates. It's a few years ago so I don't remember exactly...

But it was only *temporarily* imported so I was the only person allowed to drive it and I could not sell the car in Canada. In order to do that, you have to permanently import the car, for which PR was needed. And once it was temporarily imported, it needed a safety inspection (which was not cheap...) before it could be insured. When you then permanently import the vehicle, it'll need to pass a safety inspection as well so if you're close to PR, I would just wait and only deal with it once.

 

[Alurra71]

The situation: I'm a Canadian citizen, wife is a US applicant. Her car is registered in the US and she is the sole owner.

My wife had been in Canada with the car for a few months already as a visitor, and just recently drove to the US and back again. The officer there decided to start the paperwork for importing the car as a settlers effect (no tax). This is surprising to me. It was my understanding that we could only do this once we have a certificate of PR, and that until then the car would be cursed to have only one driver (Canadian citizens aren't allowed to drive US-plated vehicles in Canada) and it would have to leave the country periodically to remain valid. Yet here we are... as long as we finish the process in the 45 days, the car will be fully imported with Canadian plates, owned by my wife (who will have a Canadian driver's license) while still being considered a tourist by CIC definitions (she's still here under a visitor record).

In fact the application hasn't even officially started, since it was mailed in at the end of July and we don't have AOR yet. The officer was fully aware of the situation. We just brought in copies of some of the filled application forms and a few of the evidence documents we submitted, as proof that we applied. We also filled out the goods to follow list at this time, which she will be able to import tax-free once she has PR. According to the officer, she will also be immediately eligible for Medicare through this process.

I just wanted to see if anyone has heard of this before.

The car can't be imported to Canada until it has been exported from the US. If she has any liens on the car she can't export it until she has clearance to do so from the line holder. Heads up, 99.9% of loan companies will NOT allow her to export the car from the US until the loan is paid 100% in full. There is quite a few steps to be taken before the car can be imported to Canada, so I would suggest backtracking whatever the CBSA officer told you. Your wifes car is now on record with RIV so you'll also need to contact them since CBSA already took the first step to import your car ...

I still don't understand what exactly they were thinking when they began that process for her ...

 

[DanOCan]

Especially the comment regarding healthcare, this is only possibly true if living in Alberta (where visitors can be eligible if they are married to a resident). Any other province and there is slim to none chance someone who has just recently submitted a PR app gets healthcare ( i heard BC may allow but not certain). In most provinces you need PR status first.

When I contacted Alberta Health, they told me my wife was not eligible for coverage until she has PR status, which is most annoying because they started charging me the family rate as soon as they learned we married.

 

[nmclean]

The car can't be imported to Canada until it has been exported from the US. If she has any liens on the car she can't export it until she has clearance to do so from the line holder. Heads up, 99.9% of loan companies will NOT allow her to export the car from the US until the loan is paid 100% in full. There is quite a few steps to be taken before the car can be imported to Canada, so I would suggest backtracking whatever the CBSA officer told you. Your wifes car is now on record with RIV so you'll also need to contact them since CBSA already took the first step to import your car ...

I still don't understand what exactly they were thinking when they began that process for her ...

Well, the car is fully paid for already so that simplifies things. Logically it should be exported first before it's imported, but on the other hand we're talking about two separate governments so I don't expect any red flags in the US. When we asked when it needs to be exported, the answer was before we change the plates. We will be going next week for the export process, then continue with the remaining steps for import after we return.

It sounds like the officer doesn't quite know what he's talking about (wouldn't be the first time). I would proceed with caution so you aren't dinged with taxes/fees/duties/customs charges once the process is done, despite what you were told. You are only supposed to be exempt on imports when you actually land as a PR.

Especially the comment regarding healthcare, this is only possibly true if living in Alberta (where visitors can be eligible if they are married to a resident). Any other province and there is slim to none chance someone who has just recently submitted a PR app gets healthcare ( i heard BC may allow but not certain). In most provinces you need PR status first.

The import fee has already been paid and I'm definitely going to hang on to the receipt showing that all taxes were $0, in case someone does claim we still owe taxes. The healthcare part is what I'm most worried about. You do need PR, but here's the thing: it seems like every branch of government has their own definitions of residents/visitors/etc... CIC, CBSA, CRA... On the Medicare application form, a resident is defined as someone "legally entitled to remain in Canada and who makes his home and is ordinarily present in the Province". A driver's license is listed as an acceptable "proof of residency" document. There is no requirement for a SIN, but residents with out-of-country birth certificates must provide "immigration records". The CBSA officer told us that for healthcare we'd probably have to present them with all the paperwork we had there. The B4 settler's effects form actually states "I am entering Canada with the intention of establishing, for the first time, a permanent residence". The hope is that this signed and stamped document will serve as the requirement.

It sounds like this really is a rare situation so I will keep everyone posted about what I learn. It's possible the officer messed up, but we were actually there for about two hours total and watched him walk around and consult with what seemed to be every other employee in the building. One of them was an older lady who seemed to be very experienced, who also talked to us directly. She did mention that it's something they don't do very often. The good thing is that everyone there knows us now... we'll definitely be going back through the same port of entry from now on. Reserved a campsite near there for the 72-hour export waiting period.

 

[Rob_TO]

Well, the car is fully paid for already so that simplifies things. Logically it should be exported first before it's imported, but on the other hand we're talking about two separate governments so I don't expect any red flags in the US. When we asked when it needs to be exported, the answer was before we change the plates. We will be going next week for the export process, then continue with the remaining steps for import after we return.


The import fee has already been paid and I'm definitely going to hang on to the receipt showing that all taxes were $0, in case someone does claim we still owe taxes. The healthcare part is what I'm most worried about. You do need PR, but here's the thing: it seems like every branch of government has their own definitions of residents/visitors/etc... CIC, CBSA, CRA... On the Medicare application form, a resident is defined as someone "legally entitled to remain in Canada and who makes his home and is ordinarily present in the Province". A driver's license is listed as an acceptable "proof of residency" document. There is no requirement for a SIN, but residents with out-of-country birth certificates must provide "immigration records". The CBSA officer told us that for healthcare we'd probably have to present them with all the paperwork we had there. The B4 settler's effects form actually states "I am entering Canada with the intention of establishing, for the first time, a permanent residence". The hope is that this signed and stamped document will serve as the requirement.

It sounds like this really is a rare situation so I will keep everyone posted about what I learn. It's possible the officer messed up, but we were actually there for about two hours total and watched him walk around and consult with what seemed to be every other employee in the building. One of them was an older lady who seemed to be very experienced, who also talked to us directly. She did mention that it's something they don't do very often. The good thing is that everyone there knows us now... we'll definitely be going back through the same port of entry from now on. Reserved a campsite near there for the 72-hour export waiting period.

What province are you in?

 

[nmclean]

What province are you in?

NB.

 

[Rob_TO]

NB.

According to their website, with just a visitor record you will not qualify for coverage. You need to have your PR status in hand. What the officer may have told you, will have no bearing on the decision by the provincial healthcare people.

http://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/departments/health/MedicarePrescriptionDrugPlan/content/medicare/Eligibility.html
To be eligible for New Brunswick Medicare coverage you must be:
- a Canadian citizen or be legally entitled to remain in Canada, and;
- a resident who makes his/her permanent and principle home in New Brunswick
A “resident” means a person lawfully entitled to be or to remain in Canada, who makes his home and is ordinarily present in New Brunswick, but does not include a tourist, transient or visitor to the Province; as legislated under New Brunswick's Medical Services Payment Act
The following individuals are not eligible for coverage:
- regular members of the Canadian Armed Forces, (however members of their families are eligible);
- tourists and visitors to the province;
- transients;
- students from another province or on student visas; and
- inmates of federal penitentiaries.
Maintaining a dwelling, owning property in the province of New Brunswick or paying New Brunswick property or income tax does not mean you are eligible for insured services under New Brunswick Medicare.

 

[nmclean]

To be eligible for New Brunswick Medicare coverage you must be:
- a Canadian citizen or be legally entitled to remain in Canada, and;
- a resident who makes his/her permanent and principle home in New Brunswick
A “resident” means a person lawfully entitled to be or to remain in Canada, who makes his home and is ordinarily present in New Brunswick, but does not include a tourist, transient or visitor to the Province; as legislated under New Brunswick's Medical Services Payment Act
The following individuals are not eligible for coverage:
- regular members of the Canadian Armed Forces, (however members of their families are eligible);
- tourists and visitors to the province;
- transients;
- students from another province or on student visas; and
- inmates of federal penitentiaries.
Maintaining a dwelling, owning property in the province of New Brunswick or paying New Brunswick property or income tax does not mean you are eligible for insured services under New Brunswick Medicare.

Yeah, I saw the same notes on the application form itself, but the question remains, what exactly is a "tourist or visitor"? Like I said there does not seem to be a single agreed-upon meaning to these terms. For instance, within CRA alone there are multiple categories of residency, only one of which actually concerns CIC status.

I'm glad you posted this because I noticed it references the "Medical Services Payment Act", which there is a link to on the right of that page. I looked through that and it didn't give any more details to what defines a visitor, but I did find this in the "General" document linked just below it:

4(5) Immigrants who, in the opinion of the Director,
are or will become permanent residents under the Immigration
Act (Canada) and Canadian citizens as defined in
the Citizenship Act (Canada) who have entered the Province
from another country shall be entitled to become
beneficiaries on the first day of arrival in the Province if
they will, in the opinion of the Director, establish residence
in the Province.

So there it is... apparently coverage is allowed for non-PRs as long as they will be PRs "in the opinion of the Director". I wonder if this is true for any other province.

 

[Rob_TO]

So there it is... apparently coverage is allowed for non-PRs as long as they will be PRs "in the opinion of the Director". I wonder if this is true for any other province.

There are ample discussions on this topic in the health section of this forum.

The vast majority of provinces require someone with an INLAND PR app in progress to have stage 1 (AIP - Approval in Principal, which you get 16 months after submitting the app) before they will consider someone a qualifying applicant for PR. Simply having submitted a PR app is usually not sufficient. Many people have tried and failed to get health coverage right after submitting an app.

For OULAND apps, there is also a stage during processing at the outland visa office that is equivalent to AIP. So if you go through appeal boards and enough bureaucracy, some have managed to get health care while an outland app is still processing. Most people find they need to wait until they have PR in hand, and only then qualify (after a 3 month waiting period in some provinces).

If you have not even submitted a PR app yet, there is pretty much zero chance you will get coverage.

However stories from NB are not very common, so you might want to post this as it's own question in the Health forum here and see if anyone from NB can give you their experiences.

 

[nmclean]

There are ample discussions on this topic in the health section of this forum.

The vast majority of provinces require someone with an INLAND PR app in progress to have stage 1 (AIP - Approval in Principal, which you get 16 months after submitting the app) before they will consider someone a qualifying applicant for PR. Simply having submitted a PR app is usually not sufficient. Many people have tried and failed to get health coverage right after submitting an app.

For OULAND apps, there is also a stage during processing at the outland visa office that is equivalent to AIP. So if you go through appeal boards and enough bureaucracy, some have managed to get health care while an outland app is still processing. Most people find they need to wait until they have PR in hand, and only then qualify (after a 3 month waiting period in some provinces).

If you have not even submitted a PR app yet, there is pretty much zero chance you will get coverage.

However stories from NB are not very common, so you might want to post this as it's own question in the Health forum here and see if anyone from NB can give you their experiences.

This is an outland application. It is submitted, but without AOR yet. We should have that by the time we apply for health care. I can understand why most people fail to get coverage without AIP, if AIP is the only form of official documentation available to them supporting probable future permanent residence, but what about a B4? I suppose I'll be one of the first to test and report this scenario.

 

[Rob_TO]

This is an outland application. It is submitted, but without AOR yet. We should have that by the time we apply for health care. I can understand why most people fail to get coverage without AIP, if AIP is the only form of official documentation available to them supporting probable future permanent residence, but what about a B4? I suppose I'll be one of the first to test and report this scenario.

In most provinces AOR does not qualify an outland applicant to get healthcare. Neither does sponsor approval. Neither does a B4. In fact I don't think a B4 is even relevant to the healthcare decision making.

With an outland app there is a special designation given sometime during the stage 2 process in the outland visa office, that may qualify you for healthcare. This is not communicated to you by the visa office. In Ontario after you get rejected initially for healthcare you would then need to appeal the decision and go through eligibility review board to communicate with visa office and find out when you get this status. I have no idea what the process is (if it even exists) for NB.

Most people with an outland application end up having to wait until landing as PR before they can apply for healthcare. I think i've read a few cases in BC where an outland applicant got healthcare shortly after submitting an app based on their rules, though stories seem to be hit and miss as some are successful and some aren't. The only way to truly know is to apply and see what happens and hope for the best, but realistically I would expect a refusal since you are not far enough into the process yet.

 

[nmclean]

In most provinces AOR does not qualify an outland applicant to get healthcare. Neither does sponsor approval. Neither does a B4. In fact I don't think a B4 is even relevant to the healthcare decision making.

With an outland app there is a special designation given sometime during the stage 2 process in the outland visa office, that may qualify you for healthcare. This is not communicated to you by the visa office. In Ontario after you get rejected initially for healthcare you would then need to appeal the decision and go through eligibility review board to communicate with visa office and find out when you get this status. I have no idea what the process is (if it even exists) for NB.

Most people with an outland application end up having to wait until landing as PR before they can apply for healthcare. I think i've read a few cases in BC where an outland applicant got healthcare shortly after submitting an app based on their rules, though stories seem to be hit and miss as some are successful and some aren't. The only way to truly know is to apply and see what happens and hope for the best, but realistically I would expect a refusal since you are not far enough into the process yet.

The way I understand it, nothing qualifies you for healthcare pre-PR, including Inland Approval in Principle. According to the regulations above, it's completely discretionary, and I haven't seen anything explicitly identified anywhere as admissible or inadmissible... so all we have to determine how well different items "qualify" is from the success rate of stories here. Since having a pre-PR B4 and Canadian driver's license is seemingly unheard of, there isn't enough data to suggest it wouldn't. CBSA admitted they don't do this often, but they seemed to think it will work. When I'm back there on Thursday I'll try to get more information as to what they're basing that on.

 

[nmclean]

Update on this: Just got the letter in the mail yesterday that my wife is approved for NB Medicare. We exported the car in September, installed daytime lights, got the inspection and registration done in October, then applied for health care with passport, B4 and registration as supporting documents. The letter shows the effective date as August 22, which was the official settlement date as written on the B4. PR is still in process.