Immediate PR- What the Liberal Party promised.

[Ponga]

"Granting immediate permanent residency to new spouses entering Canada, rather than imposing a two-year conditional status that puts spouses – often women – in a position of extreme vulnerability."

There's no reading between the lines required. The specific promise made by the Liberals when running is precisely what they're delivering in office.

I don't doubt that some people chose to hope it somehow meant immediate decisions, but no reasonable command of English (which, I accept, some people moving to Canada won't have) can interpret that as anything but what it says: replacing the first two years of conditional PR with immediate full PR when it is granted, at whatever time that is.

I have a very good grasp of English, thank you.

Look at what the promise was, again, and you'll see that it was never written/promised as:
Replacing the first two years of conditional PR with immediate full PR, when it is granted, at whatever time it is.

That's the issue. "...at whatever time it is" and "Immediate" are vastly different.

 

[scylla]

I feel like I got into a time machine and have been transported back to the time of the original announcement...

 

[Ponga]

Do you not agree that a year later the Liberals have still not truly disclosed how this is going to work and that it really doesn't mean immediate PR?

What about those who've yet to apply that are expecting [some sort of] immediate PR for their spouse?

 

[Bcboundboy]

I have a very good grasp of English, thank you.

Look at what the promise was, again, and you'll see that it was never written/promised as:
Replacing the first two years of conditional PR with immediate full PR, when it is granted, at whatever time it is.

That's the issue. "...at whatever time it is" and "Immediate" are vastly different.

Do you not agree that a year later the Liberals have still not truly disclosed how this is going to work and that it really doesn't mean immediate PR?

What about those who've yet to apply that are expecting [some sort of] immediate PR for their spouse?

I am looking at the promise, from 2015. Every single instance of it, on CBC, the Liberal party website, immigration consultants, they all write it the same. Eliminating the two year conditional PR, replaced with immediate PR. There's no way to twist it into immediate decisions the way you're so desperate to.

The Liberals have disclosed precisely how it's going to work: condition 51 will be removed, and new arrivals will have PR immediately, instead of conditional PR. Those who expect a waiting time of zero are demanding the impossible, the unreasonable, and a fantasy.

But I suspect you're never going to accept that, so there's not much point trying to help you

 

[Rob_TO]

I am looking at the promise, from 2015. Every single instance of it, on CBC, the Liberal party website, immigration consultants, they all write it the same. Eliminating the two year conditional PR, replaced with immediate PR. There's no way to twist it into immediate decisions the way you're so desperate to.

The Liberals have disclosed precisely how it's going to work: condition 51 will be removed, and new arrivals will have PR immediately, instead of conditional PR. Those who expect a waiting time of zero are demanding the impossible, the unreasonable, and a fantasy.

But I suspect you're never going to accept that, so there's not much point trying to help you

Read the very first link in this thread to the 2015 Liberal plan. The word "conditional" does not appear even once.

Can you link to even a single Liberal document from last year that mentions they are talking about "conditional PR"?

 

[Ponga]

I am looking at the promise, from 2015. Every single instance of it, on CBC, the Liberal party website, immigration consultants, they all write it the same. Eliminating the two year conditional PR, replaced with immediate PR. There's no way to twist it into immediate decisions the way you're so desperate to.

The Liberals have disclosed precisely how it's going to work: condition 51 will be removed, and new arrivals will have PR immediately, instead of conditional PR. Those who expect a waiting time of zero are demanding the impossible, the unreasonable, and a fantasy.

But I suspect you're never going to accept that, so there's not much point trying to help you

Do you not realize that those with and those without Condition 51 all receive their PR at the same time...on the day that they LAND. Is that truly immediate PR?

Don't feel too bad; you're not the person that I would seek help from, if I truly needed help with this broken, twisted, distorted, untruth.

 

[Hasan9999]

Read the very first link in this thread to the 2015 Liberal plan. The word "conditional" does not appear even once.

Can you link to even a single Liberal document from last year that mentions they are talking about "conditional PR"?

My opinion- conditional PR will minimize immigration fraud!

Hasan

 

[Ponga]

I am looking at the promise, from 2015. Every single instance of it, on CBC, the Liberal party website, immigration consultants, they all write it the same. Eliminating the two year conditional PR, replaced with immediate PR. There's no way to twist it into immediate decisions the way you're so desperate to.

Here it is, straight from the horse's mouth:

We will also grant immediate permanent residency to new spouses entering
Canada, eliminating the two-year waiting period.

So, your argument is that everyone should have known what they meant by "eliminating the two-year waiting period", correct?

Would you even consider agreeing with the fact that this was, at best, a very poorly written promise?

While most people that have been through the spousal sponsorship meat grinder, will now know what the two-year waiting period might be, those that are nervously starting the process, and have no clue how things work (or don't work) could see that as the time that it currently takes for a spouse to eventually get PR, Condition 51 or not. Two years stuck in limbo is very real for a lot of couples, before the spouse/partner eventually gets their PR. The only thing that's immediate about the process, is the angst that comes with the submission of their application. That's clearly not changing anytime soon.

Would this not be a more accurate statement:

We will also grant immediate full permanent residency to new spouses entering
Canada, eliminating the two-year waiting period, once their application has been approved.

That will surely remove the false hope that someone is going to immediately receive permanent residency for a new spouse entering Canada.

Or...am I beating a dead horse?

 

[truesmile]

So, your argument is that everyone should have known what they meant by "eliminating the two-year waiting period", correct?

Would you even consider agreeing with the fact that this was, at best, a very poorly written promise?

Or...am I beating a dead horse?

1. Yes, for those in the "immigration know". Absolutely.

2. Coming from a politician?? Are you kidding?

3. Ummmmm . . . <<insert response from above average forum resource/member here>>


Come on buddy, I've read your posts . . . You're smarter than that!

 

[Ponga]

Thanks for the IQ validation, but this is more than just an issue of being "smarter than that". It's about a blatant lie that's bound to cause even more heartache for those that read it, only to be sucker punched.

1. What about those that are NOT in that group?!
What about the couple that is living apart that sees this (without having their Liberal Party `secret decoder ring') and feel elated, `thinking' that the foreign national spouse/partner will now be able to come to Canada and IMMEDIATELY be granted Permanent Residency?!
After all, their spiel did say: "We will also grant immediate permanent residency to new spouses entering Canada, eliminating the two-year waiting period.

It's not at all ironic that the Liberals never used the word `Conditional' (as in Conditional PR, or Condition 51) once, nor did they define (to those that are not in the "immigration know"), what the two-year waiting period really means.

Am I the only one that feels for those that will be disappointed by this? I shouldn't even give a rat's as$, since it doesn't impact me, my family, or anyone that I even know, but...I do.

 

[scylla]

Thanks for the IQ validation, but this is more than just an issue of being "smarter than that". It's about a blatant lie that's bound to cause even more heartache for those that read it, only to be sucker punched.

1. What about those that are NOT in that group?!
What about the couple that is living apart that sees this (without having their Liberal Party `secret decoder ring') and feel elated, `thinking' that the foreign national spouse/partner will now be able to come to Canada and IMMEDIATELY be granted Permanent Residency?!
After all, their spiel did say: "We will also grant immediate permanent residency to new spouses entering Canada, eliminating the two-year waiting period.

It's not at all ironic that the Liberals never used the word `Conditional' (as in Conditional PR, or Condition 51) once, nor did they define (to those that are not in the "immigration know"), what the two-year waiting period really means.

Am I the only one that feels for those that will be disappointed by this? I shouldn't even give a rat's as$, since it doesn't impact me, my family, or anyone that I even know, but...I do.

Not sure why has this turned into such a "thing" for you.

It's just like any other promise every other politician or party has made in the past. Vague statements are made as part of every campaign. And words are spun to make things sound better/bigger than they are. It's normal and expected. We could be having the same discussion about economic/employment claims, the environment, etc. It's politics.

Not that this is a comparison - but look at what's happening down south. "I'm going to get rid of Obamacare" = "I'm going to keep parts of it". "I'm going to build a wall" = "Not so much a wall - maybe just a fence". "I'm going to put Hillary in jail" = "She is a good person".

 

[Ponga]

Having endured the emotional roller coaster of the sponsorship process, without blatant lies like this, i just loathe the fact that this will undoubtedly give false hope to `newbies'. Newbies that simply want to be with their spouse/partner.

What bothers me, almost as much, is the overwhelming defense/justification of what they're doing, by most members here. Really?! Nobody else sees this as a big deal?

*shrug*

[Note to self] - Move on.

 

[Rob_TO]

Having endured the emotional roller coaster of the sponsorship process, without blatant lies like this, i just loathe the fact that this will undoubtedly give false hope to `newbies'. Newbies that simply want to be with their spouse/partner.

What bothers me, almost as much, is the overwhelming defense/justification of what they're doing, by most members here. Really?! Nobody else sees this as a big deal?

*shrug*

[Note to self] - Move on.

It wasn't really a lie, they just weren't clear and mistakenly (or purposefully) used "waiting period" instead of "conditional period" which caused confusion.

Not the first time an elected party will modify or not come through on an election promise, and most certainly won't be the last.

 

[CDNPR2014]

Having endured the emotional roller coaster of the sponsorship process, without blatant lies like this, i just loathe the fact that this will undoubtedly give false hope to `newbies'. Newbies that simply want to be with their spouse/partner.

as others have pointed out, it's not a blatant lie, it is spinning facts to make it sound better for political purposes.

I honestly don't think "newbies" are going to get false hope from 1 line they may or may not even know exists. I'm going to go on a limb and say I also don't think a majority of newbies go around reading memos from CIC about immigration. For the most part, when people start the process, they are more concerned about getting the application in, how much it costs, and whether or not CIC will accept/approve it. I for one was not reading memos or anything specific from CIC when i was an applicant. my guess is the majority of people who are reading and analyzing this stuff are people who have already been through the process who like keeping up to date about this stuff or are already in the middle of the process and need something to keep themselves busy while they wait.

 

[Ponga]

as others have pointed out, it's not a blatant lie, it is spinning facts to make it sound better for political purposes.

Still not sure how using the words "We will grant immediate permanent residency" is not a blatant lie, but...